You know, the Beatles are a major influence for me. I was born in '62, so I was also influenced by a lot of other '70's and '80's pop music. With most of my songs, you can hear some Beatle's influence, but in a '70ish early '80's context.

I just finished a song that I'm a little embarrassed about because the verses are so unabashedly Beatlesque and because of the rather trite psychodelic lyrics in the verses.

It's called "Beyond The Winds of Time." www.reverbnation.com/larrylevin

I would love it if someone could listen and tell me what, if anything, makes you go ouch. I probably have to rewrite a few of the lyrics.

There are some other influences you'll hear. There's some Chris Isaak kind of low Western guitar, some Pete Townshend-like lead, Zombies style Organ, even a piano run in the chorus that I borrowed from an Elvis Costello song.

I don't mind the song being a tribute, I just don't want it to be a caricature. Thanks for any suggestions.

Beakybird

My last comment on anyones music.....I'll leave it up to all you experts. If you don't think the harmonies in the begining are "rushed" & off time and the organ solo later are a bit off then you better listen again.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-03-2009).]

I don't know how anyone could make a statement like this about a tune they've never heard. How could you know if the timing was off or not? Maybe you'd prefer a different phrasing, but for me Larry is the only one who knows how the timing goes right now being that it's a new tune.

I found the timing fine. It would fit with a Beatles type song.

I liked the guitar and organ solo idea.

I like your other Beatle type tune a lot better. IMHO

Yeah... (yeah, yeah )

I had no issues with the timing... Same issues with the fills (un-drummer-like, in places) and once again, the first part of the guitar solo sat ahead of the pocket quite a bit. Relax a bit more, Larry, and crank those drums while you play... it will help you sit better.

Overall, though, I thought this one was stretching the chords a bit hard... Not sure how to fix it, but I felt there might have been one too many modulations...

Another thing is, I'm starting to hear the Melodyne in places. The trick is to work as hard as you can to get a GREAT vocal performance first, and THEN apply the pitch correction. There's a temptation to go 'OK, I can fix that in the mix', but it only goes so far, and then you start to hear artifacts.

Finally, Larry... Trust me... go and listen to EZ Drummer. Those dull, lifeless drum sounds are holding the track back. There's no dynamics, no sense of realism. The same MIDI file, played through EZ Drummer will make the track come alive (although the fills still need work)...

You know, if I were you, I'd be trying to hook up with some kind of film music production company. Retro music like this, strongly Beatles but with no Beatles royalties issues, is often needed for film and TV work...

Best of luck.

Listened to this three times...Random thoughts...

The song seems "fill happy"...

Nothing timing wise stood out to me in a bad way...

Construction wise, I'm hearing a bit of REM without the edge...

I wonder what this song would sound like, cleaned out, with a frenetic Early era Elvis Costello beat?

With the admittedly dated song writing style this tune doesn't work for me. Too much sugary sweetness, harmonies, background stuff...It's like a connection of cliches...

You're good at chord progressions. The changes aren't always what I expect.

What's the end game? What are your goals
with these tunes?




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Bill in Dayton

Larry,

Your music reminds me of the tunes in the movie, That Thing You Do!.

This one is nice, although I must agree that there are too many fills (just a few, you didn't kill it with fills), but otherwise this is a very well crafted song.

Stay true to yourself. My dad used to say, "There's a home for every pup."

Diki's statement/suggestion, "You know, if I were you, I'd be trying to hook up with some kind of film music production company. Retro music like this, strongly Beatles but with no Beatles royalties issues, is often needed for film and TV work..." makes a lot of sense.

Ian

Initially, I was tempted to listen to this a few times but, in the way that producers do (I'm not one, by the way), the first listen, and in most cases not even all of it, should be the make or break on a straight-up pop song. Mentioning The Beatles, I think we all recall that most of their big singles had you hooked in the first 30 seconds.

This didn't grab me, I'm afraid. I found that the chord progesssion, while interesting, was awkward in too many places. You know, the story (not literally) doesn't flow off the page, so to speak. No timing issues, a tad fill-heavy maybe but not obtrusively. Plainly put, the vocals need work. The mix was decent enough in general, good enough for most intents and purposes.

Thanks for putting it up, and I will have a listen to your other songs.

Interesting tune. First off..., Scott what world do you live in where it's not possible for a singers vocal timing to be off on their own music? You can hear a song for the FIRST time and tell if the vocals timing is off from the backing. You don't have to know the song to pick up on that.

Beakybird.., I think it's an interesting tune. I would agree about the drums though. Seem to be a little fill happy As Diki pointed out that guitar solo is a tad off, but could easily be brought into place.

I think it's the start of a good tune to be honest. It needs to be polished a bit more.., but it's not a bad song. I'd go with another route on the drums for sure.

I am confident Beakybird knows if his timing is right or not by the talent I've seen come from him. Diki who also does this type of thing for a living has also given his professional opinion.



[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 05-03-2009).]

Yea.., deal with it Scott. I disagreed with your view point. Boo freakin hoo.., welcome to the real world. I don't agree with your position..., that's LIFE.

I disagreed with it before and I still do. I don't care who the musician is. You don't need to KNOW a song to tell if the timing is off. Any reasonable musician who can clap his hands together can pick up on timing issues from songs they've NEVER heard before.

I noticed a few timing issues myself.., but not just in the vocals. Other's pointed it out as well.

So what if Donny pointed out vocal timing issues. Some of you guys just f---n blow my mind. You ask for honest opinion and then when people give honest opinions that aren't served with cotton balls and butterflies it's boo hoo city. Some of you guys need to do some freakin push ups and toughen up a bit.

Go back and read your post Scott. That response should insult any musician who has the capability to clap on 2 and 4.

Thank you so much for listening to a tune that probably wasn't ready for prime time, and not even one of my very best songs.

You know, I own EZ Drummer, and I just haven't been able to get it to sound right. When I transfer my PSR-S900 to EZDrummer or Cakewalk's Session Drummer it is not balanced and too in your face.

What I have decided to do is to cut and paste drum voices in a composition one at a time to separate EZDrummer tracks where I can try to balance them.

I really appreciate fill happy critique. That's an easy thing to do. Erase some drum hits.

The thing that bothers me most about the song is that many of the lyrics are trite, '60ish flower power lyrics. I rewrote some of these.

DNJ: harmonies are right on time as far as when they come in, but they don't always change chords on time.

Diki: You are right. The Melodyne has made me lazy. I will do more than just one or two vocal takes before I start manipulating the track in Melodyne.

As far as what my intentions are with my songs, when I'm recording, I'm just trying to make something as beautiful as I can. I have sent about 20 demos out to different publishers. I've gotten one rejection so far.

Before I send out more demos, I want to get it right, so I'm glad that I have gotten so many critiques here on the forum. Sorry for subjecting your ears to an unfinished product. It has helped me immensely to hear "out of tune vocals," "lifeless drums," and all the other crap. And to get questions answered like why my songs sound softer than everyone elses on the internet.

I'd rather get these issues addressed before my demo ends up in a garbage can, and I'm left singing at nursing homes when I'm 75 instead of retiring comfortably.

Thanks

Beakybird

I think it's a good song Beaky with a lot of potential. Just polish it up a little bit. I didn't hear anything wrong with they lyrics either.

I rest my case

A little over the top, Squeak? Disagree all you want but sounds like you're ready to go to war over a pretty meaningless difference of opinion.

Would you really have put it that way to Scott if you two were talking in person?

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-03-2009).]

Bill.., if Scott had said to my face (either directly or indirectly) his response here to Donny regarding judging the timing on a song I've never heard before...., he would certainly get a colorful response from me....

Donny points out timing issues with the harmonies (that even Beaky agreed with) then Scott harps Donny for pointing out timing issues in a song he has never heard. Yeah.., that's an asshole thing to say IMO. Since when does having to know a song first become a prerequisite to determining as to whether or not there are timing issues...???

I still say some of you guys need to do a few more push ups every day and toughen up a little more.., and stop being so damn thin skinned.

Donny gives an honest opinion about something that even the poster then confirmed.., yet it's not the POSTER that harps Donny. Another member insults Donny's most basic ability to judge timing. Yeah.., that's insulting. Perhaps Scott should read between his own lines




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 05-03-2009).]

Come on boys. Stop fighting!

I think Bill just meant that phrasing is subjective, and what one person thinks is off time, another person can think is stylish.

I wish I could quantize my guitar and voice. In fact, I wish I could go through my entire past and quantize it. Timing has been the biggest obstacle to my living a fulfilled life.

Beakybird

Beaky,

Thanks for sharing your work. How on earth do you have time to play numerous gigs and write original material - that alone is impressive

It's very hard to follow an arranger on time and sing perfect pitch, but practice makes perfect and that's what you continue to do - congratulations.

I like your work. Maybe you should step outside the Beatles box and do something way different - just a thought.

If I had to criticize one thing it would be those awful drums. They really kill the deal for me - but that's not your fault.

I loved the guitar lead, even if a bit fast. Did you play that on the keyboard?

I'm in the process of transferring drum voices one by one on a song from PSR to EZDrummer. The closed hi hat sounds way different, and I prefer the PSR. It's a pain in the behind process, but I am hearing the difference.

If you listen to my songs on www.myspace.com/larrylevin, you will see that I explore some other territory besides Beatlish stuff. Nothing absolutely brand new, but I write a catchy tune.

The guitar was me on my Yamaha Pacifica USA 2 electric and Peavey Revalver plugin effects. I thought it was a great solo if not a wee tad off. If I could do it all together in one take, I would be quite proud. It would take a little practice.

Beakybird

There wasn't anything wrong with what Donny or Scott said. Donny felt the timing was off, Scott allowed that maybe, it was intentionally done that way per Larry's choice.

Both are reasonable ways to address that part of the tune.

This crap about pushups and toughening up? Are you serious? What do you know about Scott? Anything? Who the hell are you to talk to anyone on this forum like that, let alone a guy like Scott?

He disagreed with Donny. So what? Scott's posted his work on the forum several times. There was criticism and he didn't crap his pants about it.

Once again, let's not strain ourselves wondering why good quality contributors and forum members leave and don't return.

Class act, pal...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

A final word from me on this particular thread.

First of all, sorry Beakybird that this somehow turned into what it did because of something I said with no ill intent meant to anyone.

I think Nigel's idea of this forum is for music minded people to get together on friendly terms and share info and opinions in a courteous manner, which is what I try to do. If someone reads something into my comments that's not my problem. If someone disagree's with my opinion, oh well, that's their peragative.

I think we all agree to be able to disagree. I disagreed with Donny, pure and simple. No insult intended. No need for Donny to change his post so that my original comments are no longer aimed at what he said. No need for him to not post on someones music in the future. But that's not my choice to make.

As for squeak, you are certainly entitled to your opinion even if it's different from mine. And it's ok to state your case. However, I really would have prefered your comments to me to have been done in a friendly and courteous manner.

I have all kinds of other comments to make on different points on this thread, but honestly, this is all so immaterial that I won't.

Hope everyone is feeling in a better mood soon.

This is one reason I post very little on SZ as compared to several years ago.

I will not be reading or responding to anything else in this thread.

Scott

Although I thought I wasn't going to waste anymore time on this thread I decided for the heck of it to listen to it again. Now I think everyone feels there are some issues with that song and I tend to agree, but I can tell you this after listening to it again, I still think his timing on the lead vocal part is fine. I hear nothing wrong with it. I probably am listening to it in the way that a trumpet player would, which I am. I am hearing a lead line that is fine.


[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 05-04-2009).]

I am aghast at how personal you all take this. And sorry, squeak, but if you talk to people face to face like that, for imagined or tiny slights like that, I imagine that professional life might be tough...

Are we really all so ignorant that we are unable to articulate our points without rancor and insult? Or is this simply the result of the 'me generation' that feels they have a right to say anything they feel like (and we don't have the right to think of them as utter wankers for saying it)?

Whatever medication you are on, I would suggest changing the dosage... up or down, I don't care Just try something different!

Surely it should be Larry who gets worked up about the criticism, if ANYONE should..? He doesn't strike me as someone that needs anyone charging in to his rescue Given that he is OK with it, how about showing at least an EQUAL degree of class...?

one, two, cha, cha, cha.