Rumor mill is alive and well.....

May even be weighted...

Probably a TYROS 4 the way it's going, they have to keep up with their tradition.

You said the poison word, Kingfrog....

'WEIGHTED'

I'm reading posts from players that think a PSR S900 is too heavy When the action has to be made that terrible just to keep the weight down on a 61, imagine how bad it would need to be to make a 76 in a weight range these people would carry...

Consider the Yamaha P85 piano which weighs 25 lbs with an 88 note weighted graded hammer action....with speakers, no less.

I think it could be possible to do a weighted 76 note arranger and keep the weight down to around 30 lbs.

Whether it would ever be made is another thing.

Ian

A weighted keyboard would only be good for piano players, not particularly for arranger keyboard players, where a light and fast touch is essential for emulating instruments.
I would never buy one, but I'm sure there would be plenty who would love one.
DonM

AMEN....The lighter the better for sure Don I agree...to each his own. The S900 is just right for my playing...hey lets see if we could bring this to 500 posts also.....the old 76 keys & keyfeel argument combo in disguise good try frog

I have supported weighted and semi-weighted 73-88 boards for a while now. I love my G70. But, for those who are out and about alot, especially for just a couple hours, I now feel that a good synth-action 61 is perfectly OK for 90% of us. The thought of taking the G70 out makes me hesitate. Maybe if I was playing full time and doing 3-4 hour gigs it would be worth it. But for just an hour or two in a small venue hardly makes the lugging worth it.

BTW, the G70 is 34 lbs - not really that bad, but the size and configuration also make it cumbersome. Add another 10 lbs for a quality case and you want to avoid any steps you can.

Actually it's a bit heavier, Cassp.

http://www.roland.com/products/en/G-70/specs.html

With a road case you're looking at 55-50 lbs.

Ian

It has been a few years since the 9000pro, maybe they will take another stab at it. Some 76 keyboards did really well, g800, G1000, sd1. Maybe they got enough requests & surveys to warrant 76er again.

Cass...
If you love your G70 and want to lighten up a bit....have you considered the Roland's GW8?
Eddie

There are two new models coming from Yamaha that will replace the current S90ES and one of them has 76 weighted keys. I've been told they will also have a mic input and MP3 playback and maybe? record capabilities. These are not arrangers though!


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Consider that all other Yamaha 88's come in at considerably MORE weight than the P85. I've noticed in the literature that Yamaha don't describe the P85's action as 'graded piano touch' like they do for others in the line. Ian, from playing the Yamaha line extensively, can you tell us what is different in 'touch' between it and all the others?

It seems that Yamaha have JUST as much problems as everyone else making a quality 88 at a weight under 40 lbs. or so, with this one exception. I smell something fishy...

BTW, you might consider that the P85 has no display, no full synth capability, no audio ins for mikes, very few buttons and controls (all of which add weight), and just expanding the case size (currently, it's basically just the keybed and very little else) to accommodate all the extra buttons and displays to the size, depth wise of an S900 would probably at LEAST double the weight.

Without paying through the nose for composite materials strong enough to not flex under the size increase of an 88 (it would probably take space age carbon graphite composites like they use in aircraft and hi-tech supercars), it is madness to expect an 88 arranger to come in anywhere NEAR the weight of a 61.

I played an NP-30, Yamaha's lightest 76. It was TERRIBLE Not even remotely piano-like..! Not even remotely as good as a T3!

I think, from what I've read, that most of the 76 size arranger fans are realists, and understand that a quality 76 keybed ups the weight into the upper 30's, lower 40's. I think, in all fairness, what most of them want would be the MotifXS7's keybed. Big enough to play piano parts on, light enough to play organ on, strong enough to not feel like a toy...

You want to save weight? Drop the speakers. Everyone is using PA's anyway, and putting a quality arranger through those rinky-dink crap built-ins is an insult to the sound that it CAN make...

The P-85 uses a weighted graded hammer action, called GHS (Graded Hammer Standard).

I really like the touch a lot, as much as the CP-300 I had here for some time.

The only difference I could find is that the CP-300 has a slightly faster repetition rate than the P-85.

I'd love to have an arranger with the P-85's key-bed and the S900's arranger section and sounds....I'd even settle for 76 notes...as long as they kept the graded weighted hammer action.

The speakers in the P85 work perfectly for their intended purpose, as do the ones in the S900...they are primarily "home" instruments.

I tried the old "flex test" with the P-85...rock solid.

I am quite impressed with this lightweight piano and how nice it works midi'd to the S900...I have several friends who feel the same way.

Sure would be nice to see this type key-bed on the S900.

Ian

I sell a P-85 as a controller for the S900 on occasion. They are a good fit for light travel with a 88 and an arranger. The P-85 weighs nothing for an 88 key board.

Also There is no comparison between the piano sounds on the 85 and the CP300 though. I think they use the low end CLP for the P-85 and the high end multi key sampled CLP series for the CP300.

George, is there any further info regarding this statement, or is that all Yamaha would tell you?

Dennis

Even a light weight soft case with wheels like the Kaces porter weighs about 20 lbs, so even with that that would be a 65 pound combination, no thanx

Yamaha should improve the "onboard features" we already have in their arrangers & listen to real players NEEDS!! They already have a TOTL great sounding arranger no doubt.

Still no real answer to why a CP300 weighs over 70 lbs. and the P85 is 25 lbs...

I smell something fishy in these answers... Are you guys REALLY trying to tell me that, apart from the repetition, there's NO appreciable difference in touch between a P85 and a CP300?

Extra sample layers don't weigh a thing!

Just look them up Diki...you're a smart guy and I know you'll figure it out, my friend.

I'll help a bit.

Here's your fav, the NP-30's review in Keyboard:

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/yamaha-np-30/nov-08/89525

Here is the CP-300:

http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/yamaha-np-30/nov-08/89525

I haven't found much yet on the P85 (you could try Harmony Central), and as Kingy says, the piano is not up to CP-300's standards, but I really love the sound, especially considering the price and the weight...it has a great feel and terrific response.

Nothing fishy going on...just a great choice of digital pianos to suit every taste and budget.

From my piano player's perspective, the Yamaha CP-300 is the best digital piano I've ever played...smokes everything Roland or Korg makes, and actually feels like you're playing a "real" piano...the speakers go a long way in creating this effect.

If I wasn't gigging, I would have kept the CP-300, but it is a little too heavy for me; you may not find it too bad, considering you don't mind lugging around a 60 lb(in the case) arranger.

Making "portable" instruments as heavy as the G70 and CP-300 is a flagrant violation of The Geneva Convention.

For now, the p-85 is perfect for my needs.

Ian

Based on the info Geroge Kaye provided.., IF these new models will have recording capabilities.., I'd say it sounds like Yammie will put out their contender to the Kurzweil PC3 series.

This is where it gets a little confusing though. If Yammie releases these models, I would assume they'd also have sound engines based on the Motif XS. If they added recording to these models such as 16trk sequencers.., wouldn't these things be too direct in competing with the Motif line? Yamaha keeps very fine lines between their models. MO series is the ES series cut in half and can be called the "fat free models".

It would be very cool if Yamaha released these models with those features as they'd compete against the Kurzweil PC3 series. The price of the 88 fully weighted better come in under the XS8 though.

Ohhh, Diki I just wanted to point out something regarding the Yamaha NP-30. The BIGGEST problem with the NP line is people EXPECTING to feel a weghted keybed when they play the NP-30. The NP-30 DOES NOT have a weighted keybed and is even listed as a light touch keybed. People ASSUME that when they see "graded touch" they ASSUME the action is going to be weighted. It's NOT a weighted bed. The problem is online retailers were listing it under the description as being "semi-weighted". That confused a lot of people who were expecting a graded semi-weighted action.

I will say the NP's keybed IMO feels better than the typical PSR bed. The keys are not weighted but at least IMO feel better than the keys found on a S900.

I would bet money if Yamaha made a S900 with the NP-30's keybed they'd be selling like hotcakes and you'd hear a lot of praise for the keys over the usual Yamaha PSR action.

If Yamaha made the DGX 6-series piano (weighted graded hammer action) with the same arranger features as the S900, and lightened it to under 30 lbs, I'd buy one right away, even if they shortened the key-bed to 76 notes.

Having 88 or 76 graded weighted graded hammer keys would be less of a compromise for me than having semi-weighted keys of the same number.

Playing solo piano on 76 (or 88) semi-weighted keys would be about as useful as having Mother's Day in an orphanage...that's why having a 76 note Tyros with the FSX key-bed, or an arranger like a G70 or E-60, never interested me, and when asked by Yamaha what I preferred, I always answer that 76 note arranger would be fine by me, as long as they were weighted hammer action, otherwise don't waste the money and keep it as is.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-29-2009).]

Squeak,
I don't think they will have 16 track sequencers but rather the ability to play MP3's and sing along with them. I've only been told a very little bit about these new models.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Curious that ONLY the arranger community thinks that anything over 25-30 lbs. is 'unportable'. The CP300 is in Yamaha's 'Stage' series, intended for gigging use (they have 'home' pianos considerably heavier) is over 70 lbs. Add a case, now you are talking nearly 90+ lbs.

I find it amazing that Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, etc., can sell ANY product at all over our 'weight limit'...

I mean, it couldn't POSSIBLY be us that are the whiny weaklings, could it? Perhaps we just missed all those weight lifting classes at music school... Too busy learning those One Finger Chord systems, or trying out chicken hats!

Mind you, I suppose it does prove our superiority over all those other keyboard players, so untalented they have to play with (shock, horror!) other musicians in those outdated 'bands' because their brains have become atrophied with all that heavy lifting...

In the meantime, of course, most of us have some exercise equipment at home that makes us work MUCH harder than lifting a 40 lb. arranger. But that is different, isn't it? That is only supposed to be for our health's sake. Not 'work'

I can't imagine you being a whiny weakling, Diki, after lugging that old G70 around these past few years.

I believe it is because arranger players, generally being "older", are naturally "wiser" and have figured out that you don't need a big heavy arranger to sound terrific.

I know I would not go back to using a heavy arranger keyboard when there are so many excellent alternatives available.

Ian

Semi-weighted 76 note (NOT hammer action) ...AND depending on what all the features are...AND if they listened to lot's of folks about lot's of things...I maybe interested.

Lee S.

Lee, methinks you'd have much better luck with the maddeningly elusive, and nearly finished Audya.

Ian

If Yamaha makes a 76 key arranger with weighted graded hammer action, then that defeats the purpose of making a 76 key arranger. At that point, you might as well make it 88 keys.

The purpose of 76 keys is to strike a compromising balance between the player who plays synths and organ sounds but need some extra keys to play piano and e-piano parts.
If they are making a weighted graded hammer action board, that shows that they are only making it for a piano player and should make it 88 keys.

O and here is the other problem if Yamaha makes a 76 weighted graded hammer action arranger. When it does not sell, then Yamaha would say: “See, a 76 key arranger does not sell”. Of course it would not. You made it wrong by making it weighted graded hammer action. No all purpose keyboard player who plays organ/synth sounds 60% of the time and piano sounds 40% of the times would by that. The only persons who would buy such a keyboard would be those who would want to play piano style 95% of the time. At that point, you would be better off making it 88 keys.

I agree. They should make it 88 keys.

Ian

They DO make 88 weighted arrangers. Of course, none of us will buy them because they will be too heavy.

I guess the main point is Yamaha's inability to fix or even see past a mistake they made in the past. The 9000Pro failed because of flaws that would have sunk it even if it was a 61. Underpowered CPU, and a buggy, flawed OS... but it wasn't the 76 that doomed it.

I guess all you Tyros owners should be grateful that they DIDN'T make the 9000Pro a 61, or Yamaha might not be making a TOTL arranger at all... Apparently, ONE failure leads to a total abandonment of the program.

In the meantime, of course, Korg, Roland and Ketron have this market totally unopposed. Remarkably kind of Yamaha, if you think of it... dominate 61 key sales, but leave the 76 market alone. I was always under the impression that if you have the opponent on the ropes, you finish him off. Guess they don't read their Sun Tzu in Japan anymore...

Unfortunately, Ian, there are NO lightweight alternatives to the G70. At least not without more compromise to the sound and touch than I am prepared to make. I haven't found ONE 'excellent' alternative!

Let's face it... if the S900 had the T3's action, at no weight penalty, you would be happier than a sandboy. But they don't. So you are prepared to compromise the feel of the keyboard, to save weight. I am not.

I happen to feel that, if you want ONE keyboard to cover it all, rather than an 88, a 61, and an organ 61, a semi-weighted 76 is by far the better choice. If I get to a gig, and find they need straight ahead piano, I am still covered. If I find they need B3, I am covered. Rhodes... covered. Etc., etc..

But take a 61 and find they need piano, out of luck. Take an 88 and find they want organ... out of luck. I still do a lot of pickup gigs, where you don't know for sure what is needed until you get there. The semi-weighted 76 is the perfect 'compromise'. And that's about the only compromise I am prepared to make. If it comes in at 45 lbs., well, that's better than lugging the 88, the 61 and the organ 61, just in case...

I am afraid we'll never see eye to eye on this one, Ian. Could I play an S900? Sure I can play anything... But would I be happy about it? Hell NO! The day that a bad back FORCES me to use lighter gear, sure, I'll use it. But don't imagine for one MINUTE that I'll try to self justify it! I will miss that G70 action until the day I croak...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 04-30-2009).]

I feel terrible that there is no lighter alternative for you to play Diki, and I feel very lucky that the incredibly efficient S900 is perfect for my needs.

It's certainly much better for my needs than the 65 lb (in the road case)arranger that you have to lug around to meet your needs.

As far as the Tyros action...no thanks; I like the S900's for arranger play much better...if I wanted a T3 I'd be using one right now...it's hardly heavier than the S900, and I can buy one under cost....it's not price, or weight...it's just preference.

My experience playing the G70 as a solo piano was less than satisfying....the semi-weighted action feels absolutely nothing like a piano; no better than the S900 in that respect, so having the extra keyboard length is really nothing but a waste in my opinion....and, let's face it, buying a G-70 for easy moving is like someone downloading porn to savor the cinematography.

My P85 is far more satisfying to play....feels just like a real piano, and at 25 lbs, it is a doddle to carry around.

When Yamaha asked for my thoughts on a larger than 61 note arranger, I suggested that it have 88 weighted action keys and be under 30 lbs.

Until they do, I can get by quite nicely with two lightweight instruments, that actually weigh less together (in their cases, no less) than your big old G70 in it's road case.

Whatever reasons you and others seem to think Yamaha have for not making a 76 note arranger are all just assumptions...unless you were present at the board meetings at Yamaha Japan.

The only current, readily accessible, and completely finished TOTL 76 note arranger would be the Korg PA2xPro...the G70 is history, as is the E-60, so it seems Roland has wisely followed Yamaha's path, at least for the time being.

It could be possible that Yamaha will make a portable (under 30 lb) DGX/PSR hybrid with 88 weighted keys and the innards of the TOTL PSR S-series...far more appealing to piano players like me, and better than wasting their time making a 76 note semi-weighted arranger for a very tiny segment of the market.

I have been asked many times at my clinics and through email, about why Yamaha doesn't make a portable 88 key CVP, but I have rarely, if ever, been asked about a 76 note Tyros.

The 76 note debate can go on forever, and probably easily pass Fran's 500 post, cheap and dirty, speaker thread, but it will end the same way as any other thread did on this subject...lots of rhetoric, especially from those who would never buy a Yamaha arranger no matter how many keys it had, and lots of guesses why a 76 is not being made, but ultimately we will be no further ahead than when it started, simply because no one actually knows Yamaha's reasoning behind their, obviously firm, decision.

We both know Kingfog launched this thread because of lack of activity on SZ...what better subject to be bantered around for days and not achieve anything but fill up forum space with guesses, rants and little else?

Sort of reminds you of the Audya and Mediastation threads, doesn't it?

Bottom line is, we both have to live with a bit of a compromise until we get what we want...I just happen to like mine much better.

BTW, did you manage to get a back-up G70, or did your need for it go away?

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-30-2009).]

Really?? How about the Casio Privia PX-320? It is 88 note, fully weighted, under 30 lbs., 128 note polyphony, and it is a "semi" arranger too! Of course its main purpose is as a Digital Piano though. And surprisingly, the piano sound(s) actually sound pretty good. And amazingly, the key bed action is really very delightful. Read the review at Keyboard Mag to get the lowdown from the experts.

PS: I owned the PX-320 a while back to use as a Controller. I eventually returned it though because of its lack of Mod Wheels and/or a Mod Stick. I am certain that Casio will eventually make the next model (or the model after) with subsequent Mod Wheels or Mod Stick. I am waiting for that day and I will most likely seriously consider getting the new model when it comes out. If nothing else than for a truly portable, excellent action, fully weighted 88 key "semi" arranger keyboard which will mainly be used for controller purposes. OTOH, if Casio ever comes through with "totl" acoustic sounds in other sound categories i.e. Brass, Strings, Organ, Guitar, yada, yada, yada, and also a plethora of nice synth sounds, then that will even be more reason to get one and then be able to use it for everyday purposes like gigging, without the need to hook it up to a PRO sound module, etc. It's amazing how far Casio has come in just a few short years and I, for one, am truly expecting more great things from them in the future. And their prices are really undercutting the competition in a BIG way I might add.

All the best,
Mike

PS: The bees knees would be if Casio would make something similar from the WK series, which is their "fully" arranger keyboard line. They have the WK-8000 now which is 88 key but it's not a weighted key bed by any means.

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 04-30-2009).]

Mike,

My feeling that Yamaha will come up with a lightweight 88 note, piano actioned arranger along the lines of the DGX (and hopefully with the S900's innards) is based on the Casio Previa 320's success.

I have had an overwhelming amount of requests for Yamaha to make such an instrument.

I know I'd buy one in a heartbeat, as would a lot of people who are piano players first, and arranger players second.

I doubt if it will impeach upon the CVP line, because it will be portable.

That's the beauty of competition...it makes for improvements.

Ian

I agree with your sentiments Ian. Yamaha sees what's going on around them from the likes of Casio and they (Yamaha) are smart, and will do what they can to provide similar products that they see the competition succeeding with.

It's interesting also that George says there will be 76 key fully weighted offerings in the near future from Yamaha as well. Which tells once again, that when Yamaha sees the competition i.e. Kurzweil with the (PC3) and Clavia with the (Nord Stage 76 key) etc., catching the eye of musicians worldwide, that Yamaha wants in on the action too. Which hopefully will also make them reconsider their previous abandonment of the 76 key totl arranger market as well. If Yamaha indeed does make a 76 key T4/5 etc., I don't think they would necessarily give it a "fully" weighted key bed though. Which is okay with me. The T3's key bed is nice enough, as is, in my opinion - i.e. as semi- weighted, and if Yamaha made it "fully" weighted I think it might scare some people off from getting one e.g. = DonM, etc. I'm still holding out hope that Yamaha will indeed reconsider and offer a 76 key totl arranger somewhere down the line; whether by way of a T4/T5/T6 or whenever. The sooner the better of course.

All the best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 04-30-2009).]

Mike.., Casio DOES make an 88 graded action WK model. It's called the PX575R
http://www.zzounds.com/item--CASPX575R

This model doesn't have the mod wheel, but DOES at least have the pitchbend wheel. Sadly Casio jumped on the wagon and appear to have removed the standard midi jacks and only include USB midi.




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-30-2009).]

Hard to say about a 76 Tyros, Mike...as I said earlier, I have rarely had anyone on my Tyros clinics/demos ask if there was a 76 note version, and there seemed to be little or no interest in a larger keybed.

Conversely, when I've done CVP clinics and demos, a statement I hear a lot would be, "Gee, this would be great if it were more portable"...or..."It would sure be nice to be able to take this instead of my digital stage piano."

Most people want a weighted piano action, because most want their arranger to double as a piano, without compromising the action by going to semi-weighted keys.

Regarding DGX pianos, the inevitable wish is for more high end PSR-like functions and features like more fingering modes i.e. On Bass, AI Fingered etc, plus the four variations per style...as it is, the DGX's accompaniment seems to be based on the lower end PSR.

I'm not counting out a 76 note Tyros...Yamaha could very well surprise everyone by making such an instrument, but at this point, no one knows what they are thinking.

I'm just going on my customer, and potential customer, reactions over the past few years for my guesses, and that's basically all they are...guesses; but they do have some basis in reality.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-30-2009).]

It's not the weight of the keys, Ian, but the number of them that makes me lug the G70 around. With my 'one keyboard only' approach, when I am called to play piano parts (remember, I do at least as much full band work as I do solo or duo), organ parts, Rhodes piano parts, basically anything. I find it impossible to play piano parts on a 61 because, unlike arranger only gigs, I need the full range, or at least, more than 61.

The fact that you didn't find the G70's best piano sound while you had it may have clouded your opinion of the whole thing. No, the semi-weighted action does not feel like a piano. If it did, you wouldn't be able to play organ on it. But it feels infinitely superior to the S900's action, which even Yamaha themselves, in all their unarguable wisdom do not feel worthy of a TOTL arranger. Let's be honest here, Ian. If Yamaha put the PSR keybed into the T3, you would hear the howls of protest all the way up in the Arctic Circle (you live up there, don't you? ). You are in a minority opinion there, old chum.

Not that that has ever mattered to you. Except, of course, when you are mentioning sales figures. So what is it? Does the majority opinion matter or not...?

I am sure Yamaha would save a fortune using the S900 action on it's TOTL arrangers (and WS's, for that matter). Would you like to assure me that sales wouldn't go down if they actually went ahead and did it?

Didn't think so...

In the meantime, rumor control here... While the G70 is discontinued, the rest of the line is still in production. It is only North America that fails to support them any more, I guess due to RolandUS's disinterest in them. Mind you, given how Roland Europe still voices and styles them with a definite bias towards European styles, it may be unsurprising. We old farts are but a tiny fraction of the keyboard market. For arrangers in general to become as popular over here as they are in Europe, they might have to bring out an arranger specifically for our market. You know, like they do for Latin and Asian markets.

While they are still primarily used as toys for tots or OMB tools for NH and OMB gigs (and often the same keybed for both uses!) because of the styling priorities, arrangers will continue to become marginalized in the US. Only when they start to sound as contemporary as they WS siblings will we see a resurgence over here. Let's be honest. Arranger sales are a tiny, tiny fraction of WS sales. At least, anything $1000+ and capable of pro usage. Every store in the country has maybe three or four WS models on it's shelves, probably as many as a dozen. And most of them don't have ONE $1000+ arranger.

You can't argue with figures like that. Most of us have to drive half a continent to be able to play ALL the different arranger models for comparison. Most small TOWNS have all the different WS's for tryout. We are tiny, tiny fish, in a huge pond.

And NONE of the other , bigger fish on our pond use shitty toy keybeds on their other products in the $1000+ range. Including Yamaha. I guess Yamaha are wrong, and you are right.

Welcome to the club!

Well Diki, to me playing piano is more than just the number of keys, it's the touch that matters to me...I'm very fussy about my piano action, you're not.

That's why the G70 fails miserably at solo piano in spite of having 76 notes.

I think that's part of the reason why I couldn't warm up to it's piano sound.

Add that to the porcine weight, and it's a totally useless piece of kit for my needs.

Of course, as they say, your mileage may vary.

In regards to arranger sales, it is hard to believe they sell so poorly in the USA...we do pretty good with them here in Canada; of course we promote and demo them and offer after the sale clinics...that may be the difference.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-30-2009).]

I don't recall saying the PSR keybed should be put in the T3?

What I would like to see is the P-85's keyboard in a T3, or a T3 somehow crammed into a P-85.

Either one would be fine for me and many more piano players who want/need a portable arranger.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go out and feed the sled dogs.

Ian

Actually we get -30C in winter and +30C in summer...nothing boring about our climate.

If you don't get hurricanes, it's ALL boring weather!

The trouble for me is that, as much piano playing as I DO get, I HAVE to have at least 76 no matter what. But having decided a long time ago that just one keyboard ought to be all I take out, how do I use an arranger, and still have that task covered? An 88 arranger would make everything BUT piano parts more difficult, a plastic 61 would make piano parts impossible to play. There sure as hell aren't any 61 fully weighted actions out there, so it's obvious that not only weight, but note number is important. In fact there are completely unweighted 88's available, but not ONE fully weighted 61.

Don't get me wrong, though. If Roland made a 76 semi-weighted arranger at half the weight of the G70 without any compromise to the sound and feel whatsoever, I would buy it in a flash. But until they do, I am not prepared to take a toy 61 around, just to save me 20 extra pounds of lifting...

Diki the Strong.

I don't have a problem playing sounds other than piano on a weighted 88, even organ is not too difficult, although one must be a little more careful with smears and slides..it takes a bit of practice.

For many years I used a Yamaha KX-88 and several modules, including a Voce Micro-B II for organ...it was my only keyboard, and I got used to doing everything on weighted keys.

Your wrists and hands/fingers become very strong, "Diki the Strong", and you soon find that your speed and accuracy on all keybeds has greatly improved...you must notice this after playing on your studio piano, or your Kurz.

The plastic 61's, especially the S900, are terrific for just arranger gigs...it's so nice at the end of a long night not to have to lug a heavy keyboard out to the car, or up and/or down a flight of stairs.

Ian the Lazy