Thats the point, none of them wants to pay, Dom offered me, to create 50 styles for him,
you know how much he offered me? An MS for free and you know whats devellopers price
per style? 8 Free MS? or a lil more, for 50 Styles. Can you Imagine, the guy wants me to do
40$ a styles which i have to work 2 days for 40$. I think thats disrespectfull too. I told him,
a Free MS to me is only 6 styles, complete, nothing more, not even a note.
And Diki, whos gonna pay or whos gonna create styles? Its different when i create collection
of styles and sell it on fractions and its different if i create 30 styles for Dom or Ted or whoever
where its a one shot thing, i want my 2 days per style, i am not selling those styles on a daily
basis. But they wont pay and expect market, it doesnt work that way.

No manufacturer is going to spend lots of money on developing a product for which there are other products that adequately serves the intended market. It is just business 101.

If there is an unintended consequence of contemporary players using traditional arrangers then yes they will welcome the market. But if there is no indication that contemporary players would use an arranger then it does not make business sense for arranger manufacturers to go out of their way to make contemporary styles.

This is the same argument some persons on this forum made when it relates to the MS. They say that Dom should not be a risk taker and develop a product first; he should have the market then develop the product (market then product).

However, when it relates to contempoarary styles, some how they think it should be the other way around (product then market).

Very contradictory and inconsistent.

The fact that you guys are still here, on this arranger forum, is proof enough to me that WS's do NOT provide the degree of control and live ease that arrangers do. Or you would already be WS users, plain and simple. I simply feel that there is a small window of opportunity for arranger manufacturers to grab the reins, or a couple more generations of WS's will obsolete them completely.

Whether they have the sense to do this or not, I am in doubt

Personally, I believe the market ALREADY exists, but really only Ketron and Lionstracs do not already have a WS line, doing considerably better than the arranger line. Dom has the hardware, but not enough money to develop the content, Ketron has enough money to develop the content, but the hardware still has a ways to go, and the content they ARE developing is focused on markets they already have.

Really, there's only a few things that WS's need to improve, and then it's game over. First is the 'always in sync' loops that you can switch between on the fly, not cued a bar in advance, and the other thing is bass inversions, and chord inversions, that current WS's don't do. Other than that, with work, a MoXS could be a decent arranger... and beat the pants off any contemporary arranger at modern music.

I feel that WS's are excellent for creating loop music at home and in the studio, but the arranger still beats them pants down for live use. That is, if 'live' means any flexibility whatsoever. Ableton Live is the success it is because it allows complete creative control, even in a live situation (contrary to most computer apps). So far, WS's can't do this. Now is the time for arranger makers to step up to the plate. Now, or never. Unless they make the investment, the market will be GONE, and all you are left with is ethnic musics and legacy style for an aging, dwindling market.

And let us not think for one minute that the ethnic markets won't disappear as well, once WS's (with all their mature audio capabilities and developed modern content) can do an arranger-like control system. They either do it NOW, or it's the 'home organ' story all over again. There's a product that had an enormous market, but failed to follow trends, to stay contemporary, and now they do, what? Maybe 1% of their 70's numbers...

Try M3 with KM3 software and you will see where are arrangers heading to...nowhere...
wait few more years.

Hi Diki

Don’t know where you got the idea that Steve Jobs & Co started the computer as computers had been around in the market for some time, however they were all assembled, programmed and used by uses at home in Bedrooms Dens, Sheds etc.

Steve Jobs & Co saw there was a market out there, and then built a universal computer that anybody could use, and standardised it.

Once again uses had seen the potential of the computer and got off their backsides (Butt) and created a market for it, thus spurring on the big boys. (Aspiring big boys at the time) to do something about it (Make Money)

Regards

Bill

Perhaps I should have said 'personal computer'...

Perhaps I should have mentioned the graphical front end (without which, computers would still be relegated to being office machines for word processing and accountancy work)...

Perhaps they sat around and went 'you know, loads of musicians are telling me they want a device that sequences and records real audio that they could make records on'... No, they built the device first, and then the market found a use for it. Many, many uses that no-one had the slightest idea of until the tool to realize those needs was built.

Until the arranger industry builds the tool, no-one is going to use it...

The arranger market for contemporary styles already exists. But the way arrangers are sold/marketed needs to change.

When Yamaha put up a video of any of the tyros range they get middle aged men or straight out of the conservatoire japaneese women to demonstrate their instruments. When thy demonstrate their workstations they get people underage 30 to demo the products and they dont play any rumba's cha cha cha's etc

I like what ketron in Portugal are doing. They use young people singing contemporary songs to demo their instruments. Ketrons only failing in this respect is that the price way outside that age profile.The same for korg because thats the profile of the people they are targeting.

The thing is, spalding... unless the arrangers have styles and sounds that a young player WOULD use, it's no good getting some young turk to demo it anyway!

It's not the age of the demonstrator, it's the age of the STYLES...

Thing is, pretty much most modern arrangers can completely replace their ROM styles (or ought to be ). So a dealer should be able to load a style package into the store's arranger that would suit whatever is the main demographic his store has. Of course, if some old fart like us walks in, it should be the work of a moment or two to load up a completely different 'oldies' package...

It's trying to get youngsters past seeing polkas and foxtrots in a keyboard they want to buy. If they are not in there (except as a HD load, well hidden) and all there are are contemporary styles and loops, he's going to think that the product IS designed for him... If he sees waltzes and schlager, he's going to KNOW the product is designed for his grandfather.

If arranger manufacturers want to grow the brand, they are going to need younger players, and they are going to need to attract them by making the product appeal to THEM. Which means hiding the legacy stuff, and rethinking what the purpose of ROM styles is, now that all the memory is volatile. They have an opportunity to rewrite the rules a bit, and restore some relevancy to the product, if they are willing to look past how things always USED to get done.

Most of the younger players can't afford a TOTL arranger, so if contemporary styles are to be featured, they should be in an arranger these people can actually buy.

The success of the Yamaha DJX was because it was relatively affordable.

Ian

AJ,

when?

i want to try out AUDYA @ Mr. Sound in Brooklyn, but will not go until 2.0 is installed on it...