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#258779 - 03/04/09 08:37 PM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14202
Loc: NW Florida
Leeboy... it's not sloppiness. It just reality creeping in. What you are hearing is samples being stretched up or down to cover more than one note. This makes any periodic aspect of the sound (vibrato, tonging, attacks, decays, etc.) either speed up or slow down as the sample is transposed, and any timbral characteristic, and formants get brighter or duller as the sample is transposed, again.

Reality is that at today's cost for ROM, it would be too expensive to have enough ROM so that this NEVER happens. Something on the order of twenty to one hundred times as much ROM would be needed to do this. Look at the size of GIGA samples that do this... each one is close to GB's in size. This is no problem for GIGA Sampler, as it streams off the hard drive and doesn't actually use much RAM, but in a non computer keyboard, well, the top limit for current ROM is maybe 200-300MB or so. For the entire soundset.

So you have to be realistic, I'm afraid.

As for the Kurzweil... sorry, I've got one of those. PLENTY of abrupt sample boundaries in that (I have the K2500S). They, however, don't suffer from the vibrato thing as much as many modern keyboards, because the basic ROM sounds were sampled before they HAD enough room for vibratoed samples (they take up MUCH more ROM), and tend to use LFO's for most of the vibrato, along with some clever programming, like modulating the LFO speed from the wheel amount or velocity.

In fact, I wrote an article here some time ago showing how these sample boundaries can be used for great effect to get MORE timbral variety out of the instrument.
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/017002.html

Enjoy.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#258780 - 03/04/09 08:57 PM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Dikki,
My Kurzweil PC3 has very little issues with any sounds. The K2600X was great too. Yes, a few issus but nothing compared to Korg, Yamahaarrangers (Kurzweil is big on having top quaity sounds, as you know)

I know about the stretching up/down 1-3 notes on samples (multisamples) I have looked at this carefully and it is not always the only issue. I just made my own complete sax from a set of samples for Kurzweil, and I streched up/down 3 each way...no problem with vibrato or tibre at all.
Some of those samples are way off at their recorded note, not just the streched ones. Some sounds do not have the problem and they are also done the exact same way. So why are they not all bad??? Because some are done right.

Some samples are just not right.

I can tell you how the Korg M3 solves it...the samples are not burned into ROM only (loaded to RAM from HD, so Korg or anyone, can replace them if needed.

Sorry to highjack..it's Andrea and Sarah's fault...talking about all that pure quality voicing! got me going!:-)

Lee S.
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Lee S.

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#258781 - 03/04/09 09:11 PM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14202
Loc: NW Florida
How long does the M3 take to boot, having to load the entire ROM?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#258782 - 03/04/09 11:37 PM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Would've sold my wife for a ticket to a showe like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgQw-jeItVs
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#258783 - 03/05/09 04:56 AM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
Would've sold my wife for a ticket to a showe like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgQw-jeItVs


Ray Charles- yes
Fats Domino- OK
Jerry Lee Lewis, always has a scowl on his face and seems like a real a__hole- no
Paul Shaffer- not even if you gave me your wife! He may be talented, but he needs to know when to shut his mouth and let the guests have the stage. Big-headed, up-staging, can't stand him.

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#258784 - 03/05/09 07:03 AM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
Quote:
Originally posted by Nedim:
Would've sold my wife for a ticket to a showe like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgQw-jeItVs


Is that Ron Wood playing the guitar?

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#258785 - 03/05/09 07:24 AM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
Diki,
I do not have one...but a lot of folks I converse with do...it does not take that long..I think I heard just a couple minutes. Korg has some very high speed loading they do.

Sharp...please elaborate.
Thanks,
Lee S.
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Lee S.

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#258786 - 03/05/09 04:45 PM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Trident, i think its Ron.
_________________________
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#258787 - 03/05/09 07:28 PM Re: THIS is as good as it gets... any genre!
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
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