Up till now I've been using reverb on the vocals on my PA. The other night I saw a duo working locally and on their vocals they used mainly a short delay effect, just enough to fatten the vocals. On some old Elvis tunes they made the effect a bit more pronounced, which was fine.

So how do you use your PA's guys? Reverb alone, delay alone, or a combination of both?

Both, on mine... But the important thing is that the delay be a tap delay, or hooked into your arranger so it has a relationship to the tempo. Yes, a short slap-back works great for Elvis up tempo tunes. But it can ruin a ballad.

I use a Yamaha powered mixer, with both reverb (I set a medium plate setting, just a bit of splash, but not so much that spoken stuff in between songs sounds drenched, just enough to make in not completely bone dry) and delay on separate sends. The meat of the vocal effect I prefer to have come from tap delay. It doesn't 'mush' the sound up as much as slathering reverb all over it, IMO. Just experiment with the delay time...

For simple stuff, a duple of the tempo (whole note, half note) works well, but for stuff with a lot of words, a triplet value (triplet whole note, or 12/8 rhythm) gets the echo out of the way of the start of each word you are just singing...

You would be amazed at how much more echo you can put on your voice, if timed right, than reverb before it dissolves into mush. Just be SURE to use a footswitch and switch it off at the end of the song

Almost exactly like Diki, except I use delay from the TC Helicon and Reverb from the mixer right now.
It does vary with different songs though.
I have always used a little of each.
DonM

Thanks, guys. I use a Peavey KB600F PA amp which allows only an either/or option for reverb or delay. So I'll have to pull out my little Alesis Microverb unit and fiddle around. Thanks again.

Just a touch of both works well for me.

Gary

Me, too. A little of both.


R (repeat) R.

Like BBBB I use the Bose T1 mixer with my Wife's Vocals in Channel 1 using a "Hall" reverb she likes.

The amazing thing is she can tell when I've dialled down the reverb even by 1 or 2 percent(!). (Why a singer of her Calibre wants that much reverb is beyond me)

Now MYSELF on the other hand - I use a Hall effect (preset 7 on the PA-1X) but I've been experimenting with less (or no effect) at all in the bigger venues we play.
When the mix bounces around in a big room, there really is little need for Effects on vocals as far as I'm concerned.

So to sum up, I re-evaluate my settings (Vocals FX & Instrument EQ's) at each and every gig according to room size, audience distance, & any other relevant factors.

(We used to use that Slap back Delay for Elvis songs all the time with our old PA - Ha! Forgot all about that, I've got to start doing that again - works great....thanks for the reminder!)

The most important effect is PRE delay for the reverb. Keeps the vocals clear and up front with a nice splash of verb just behind. No pre delay puts a signal farther back in the mix. not exactly a place where you want vocals.

Use the delay before the reverb with zero feedback get vocal thickening and clarity at the same time then include the space.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-17-2009).]

Bottom line is record yourself...

If you (or your wife! ) is using too much reverb or delay, it's pretty easy to tell after the fact. Line outs. Then listen....

Ping ponging the echoes can be a neat trick if you gig or record in stereo, but that predelay trick is tough to dial in live... it's a great studio trick, but again, it needs to have a relationship to the tempo (if it is long-ish). Not too many effects boxes can derive reverb pre-delay from tap tempo (or clock) and it's not the easiest parameter to get to on a stage...

And most decent reverbs (even arranger ones) have a pre-delay for the reverb already programmed in, in that sub-50ms range that gives size to the reverb.

Just a thought.

Don't look at the settings....but instead listen with your ears to what sounds good to you while you eq.

I chain the Delay before the reverb. Set the room size and space I want and leave it.

This is not rocket science. Pre-delay is tricky in a LARGE venue and mostly not needed, It is normally a natural effect in Larger venues that cannot be controlled and the tempo has no bearing on that except that the singer is singing within a tempo and the pre delay follows. The space in fact can Lengthen the delay far past the tempo and often does.

That's where the setting in a small room has great advantage, The singer triggers the delay in tempo since there is only one minor slap back and that return is what's reverb affected, the singer controls it in essence with heir vocals which are usually at tempo. That "space" (ie first reflection) can be dialed in easily in a small venue regardless of the tempo. Not tricky at all, in fact far more necessary in a small space than a large theater where natural pre-delay can muddy up things fast. Anyone who has performed vocally in a large venue can attest to that. There is where any reverb application is tricky Using delay for effect with more than one slapback indeed should be in tempo but not too many people use a delay with the feedback turned to numerous decaying repeats except on cheap Karaoke players and those who like that long tunnel sound.

Ideally the delay should subtly double the vocal (even with a touch of shallow Chorus)with only the doubled vocal reverb affected and set to the room space desired.Keeping some amount of separation between the real vocal and affected vocal is the key and will determine the space one wants to put their voice in for a particular song or venue.
As always YMMV the ears are the final the final say,

The whole idea of reverb is to create "space" All natural space has pre delay determined by the nearest FIRST reflective surface. That can be set to be any distance regardless of tempo. Rooms have no idea what tempo the song will be and stay constant. Pre-delay is set for a desired room size, not tempo.

try chining with the delay before the reverb (if there is no pre delay setup in the reverb parameters) and make some adjustments.

BTW Drums are especially important to have a pre delay on when using reverb as the transients are short and so should the pre delay be just enough to separate the hit from the bloom. Much trickier to achieve without hearing a double hit,but important to keep the initial snap of the hit out front. Normal sound in any reflective room contains pre delay. Clap your hands in an empty bedroom. The space between your actual hands and the first reflection is pre delay.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 02-18-2009).]