So should we silence those highly-paid NY restaurant critics if they themselves are not master chefs? Must Siskel and Ebert (or whoever replaced them) prove themselves to be great actors or directors before being allowed to put pen to paper? I don't think so. I just think that they need to be able to distinguish between good and bad.

In fact, (some of) you guys amaze me. You're constantly hassling people to post music but then climb all over anybody who dares give it anything other than a glowing review. Hey, this guy wasn't even a SZ member but anytime you put something out there on YouTube or as a commercial ad, then as far as I'm concerned, it's fair game for public discussion. Some thought it was good, some thought it was passable, some (lke me) thought it was lousy (as a professional presentation). The original poster obviously thought it wasn't very good and wondered what we thought. But now we're told that by responding (honestly) to his inquiry, that we need to 'put up or shut up'.

Donny, I respect you as a person with enough ability to make a living as an entertainer, but you really need to shut this crap down. It's pretty obvious to all but the uh, 'slowest' here, that the only reason you keep harping on this is because you think your own material will 'show' better. I'm sure you're a fine entertainer, but musically, trust me, you're not top of the heap on this board. That's not a put-down, just a mini-intervention to keep you from returning to your old bullying ways. If you want to post, by all means post, just stop bugging the heck out of everybody else.

BTW, John C. was right on the money.

chas

Chas those food critics & movie idiots are mostly wrong btw ....well I guess were gonna argue even during Christmas week also so here it goes....

I'm not saying this because of what I personally play good or bad as it may be ....but as a general rule of thumb here on the SZ with all these so called experts purveying & spewing critique on anyone when they can't play their way out of a paper bag my friend or won't even post one single piece of music or always has some lame excuse is a joke...."Shut this crap down?" Sorry buddy but I'll stick to my ears for judging music thank you....walk the walk I say before anyone talks the talk...
nuff said.

Thank you

I'll duck & cover now as I'm used to the barrage of incoming flack after the last attack on me a few weeks ago.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-21-2008).]

Oh you poor baby. I can feel the tears welling up in my eyes as we speak.

chas

Chas thank you for caring your a true friend.

I now wish you & yours a very
Happy Holiday......enjoy.

Bill in Dayton:… the dis-respect you are showing this guy is rude. For a player who has shared "Strauss waltzes, military marches, polkas, and even the William Tell Overture" with the masses, I'd expect a different approach .

Lucky: I like to think of myself as outspoken, blunt, and a straight-shooter!. Besides, no one ever died from an overdose of “rude.” We’re all grown adults now. But, if you really want to see “rude,“ jump in your car and take a spin to where I live. The folks around here would put me to shame and make me sound like Little Lord Fauntleroy.

Bill in Dayton: I do not know you, but I'm guessing you are older than I. (I'm 48) You have seen & heard things I have not.

Lucky: Yes, Bill, I’m older than 48, and...a BIG yes...I have probably seen and heard things you have not.

Bill in Dayton: The young man who is the subject of this thread seems quite comfortable in his own musical skin and beyond that, who really cares? So what if he's making $$$$ on NYE? What we make or don't make on NYE is a clear indication of only what you'll deposit in the bank later on...

Lucky: This was not about whether he makes money or not at what he’s doing. My original question was simply: “Tell me what YOU think of his playing separate from his rapport with the audience?” Making music for delivering shoddy workmanship is fodder for another thread.

Lucky: Do you honestly believe he got hired for New Year’s Eve at $700 for two hours the instant he called an agent with his demo’s? Further, do you honestly believe everyone in this group tells the truth about their bookings?

Bill in Dayton: “A suggestion...find yourself a recording of Claire De Lune and listen to it 3-4 times in a row.”

Lucky: I’ll go with that, Bill. I do it regularly. “Music soothes the savage beast!”

Thanks for your post.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Ianmcnll: “Personally, I like this tune better…”

Lucky: You got that one right. When all else fails, listen to a Muppet mega-mix melody.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Bill in Dayton: “You/I/We can collectively all wish the world had different musical sensibilities, but for any of us to "decide" what the "positive direction" musically is, isn't our place.
For some, musical beauty is found in the works of the Classics...some find it in the blues...some find it in Broadway scores and so on.
I think, to try and reverse the dumbing down as some call it, it a fool's errand with only frustration at the end of the quest...

Lucky: Bill, I’m sorry but I have to disagree here about trying to reverse the “dumbing down” effect. You can’t keep taking from the System. You need to put something back in. It’s like this: would you keep withdrawing your money from your bank account without re-depositing something? Surely not, or you would eventually be broke. The same with music. One needs to keep reintroducing “good” MUSIC (notice I capitalized it) to the general public as compared to “putting something together and going on a cruise ship and just building up your assets with tips!” That’s selfish.

Now look at Hellboy’s demo. THAT rocks! He’s also making money, but he’s giving back at the same time. They spent time practicing their instruments, they know how to play their instruments, they took the time to choose great tasty selections, memorized their words, and they’re having the same rapport with the audience. I call that UN-dumbing and “giving back to the System.”

Remember, I’ve also worked as a DJ for quite a few years. I’ve observed my audience as I play generational music. Contemporary music does nothing for them. But when I go to the 80’s and before, they start to come alive. This also is called UN-dumbing and we need to see more of this.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Kingfrog: “You cannot "force your art and culture" on anyone. Quality music is in the "ear of the beholder" not the creator. You can play Gershwin, Brubeck, Mozart, Kahn all day long but those days have passed and unless you are playing what YOUR audience wants to hear they will not pay to hear you and or go away not liking your work no matter how many years you studied or Music degrees one has.
I loved Jon Lord in Deep Purple. I cannot stomach his work very long today.”

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Lucky: You don’t “force” your art and culture” on anyone. You just “introduce” them to and “remind” them of the really great music in the world and leave the water to find it’s own mark.

I’ve been doing this grade school party for the last 12 years as a DJ. Every year I try to come up with new ideas for games. I decided this time to put together a medley of different dances (Fox Trot for warmup, a waltz, cha-cha, tango, merengue, Mexican Hat Dance, etc) and call it simply the “Dance Contest.” The kids use their parents as partners. I was a little apprehensive about doing it, but they hung onto it and didn’t let go for the whole 12 songs. I do this at many events now. If done right, it leaves everyone exhilarated (and tired).

I view my job as making people aware there was “real” music before R&B, rap, & Hip-Hop came along. Performing is not just about making money.

BTW: My own definition of music is anything heard where simultaneous sounds are produced in harmony and can interact naturally with the receptors in your brain, and that has enough of a melody you can hum it afterwards. Like someone said here...contemporary music is just a series of loops and words. It’s not music at all...it’s “noise!”

BTW 2: Jon is my original B-3 organ hero and Deep Purple on of my favorite bands. I’m still listening to Highway Star, Smoke on the Water, Flight of the Rat, I’m A Leo, Lazy, etc. Those guys put out an incredible sound. I saw DP in person at one of their shows in London.

Lucky

Donny....if I had to guess, my guess would be (taken from your own mouth) that they were hired because they were cheap…and willing to earn their money in the "tip jar."

But let me get the record straight here. I really have no problem with what someone is doing to make money. My problem is...don't make it any more difficult than it already is for us proper OMB's by advertising yourself in this way.

There was a time when all OMB's were so good that the purchaser knew he was getting quality. They used a lot of equipment and sang well. Unfortunately, over the years, OMB came to mean just about anyone who simply chooses to hang a shingle out whether they're proficient or not. You can be an organ-grinder with a monkey playing a scrub-board, and still consider yourself a OMB. I know I see a distinct difference in hiring practices now since the flood of “musically-deficient” OMB’s have flooded the arena. Many prospective employers now either want you to audition or play for nothing the first time, because……they’ve gotten burned too many times by the “musically-challenged!”

Lucky

Hellboy......that's one heck of a great demo you made. I'm really impressed. I can see that the two of you put a lot of effort and hard work into your act. I already said in another reply "great selections, great musicianship," and...it appears a great time had by all!

If you consider this as not "as good as it could be," I can't wait to see your "finished" product. Your videographer and web designer are Numero Uno's. This demo is the first one I can actually say inspires me to buy a new keyboard so I can do what you guys are doing with the pop classics.

You asked for a critique, but the only one I want to offer is: I think it would suit you to sing "Sway" in a higher key. Other than that, I really enjoyed watching the whole video. And tell your partner she did a great job on Blue Bayou. It's one of my favorite tunes, so I'd like to hear her sing the whole song. She has a good voice and you both have good rapport with your audience.

This thread brought out two new musical stars: Hellboy and David McMahan.

Lucky

Thanks everyone for your comments - I'll happily lap up the praise, and accept the criticisms.

Lucky, I do in fact have a lot of trouble with Sway (probably one of the reasons I do it in a "wacky" way. We do the Buble version (not Dino's) which has a key change towards the end, so it DOES get higher, and curiously enough I have trouble with that(!) I've even tried starting the song lower (!!)

My partner (Rose) is, I think it's obvious, the much stronger singer - I'm decent (and getting better) but she just puts me in the shade when she REALLY gets going.

After years of being in Bands (originals for me being the co-writer and drummer/percussionist) and the classic "lead singer" for Rose, we teamed up in 2001 and turned professional in 2004.
You're right, we both work hard, but in my case I (genuinely) think I'm not a naturally great musician, and I have to "Practice and plan" to make it look easy and get away with what standard I am at now - there's a lot of players AND singers out there as good or much better than me, I know that - but I'm honestly getting better every single gig.

I really have some big opinions on the topic discussed here, but I'll just say this relating to ourselves, and definitely music, and working "local entertainers" in General:

We've been fortunate enough to get a lot of work, and things are going great, but I don't really think it's so much WHAT we do, but HOW we do it.

Ok what I mean is this:

We really give a damn about what we do and still love doing it, and we really do feel privileged to be on stage and think that the audience deserves to "see some sweat" at a gig.

So many acts around our parts, (and perhaps around OTHER parts) don't seem to CARE about what they do. I think that's the main thing I see these days. I don't know about the whole "dumbing down of music" thing - I've heard plenty of bad songs of the 30's 40's era, absolute Pap in the 50's - self indulgent tripe in the 60's & 70's - PLEASE don't get me started about the 80's, and right up to today - as well as great songs from ALL those eras - yes including today. As I get a little older, and perform both old AND new songs, I find my taste getting WIDER, not narrower, and I appreciate just about any Genre (except for Metal and most of it's Sub Genres - Death, Thrash, Goth etc) and in the end, for me, it comes down to the performer and the song.

I think there's crap around today, but there was crap in EVERY era. I also think that it's too "early" to denounce today's music without some 20/20 Hindsight and time. "The good old days" didn't become "the good old days" right away, if you know what I mean.

Whilst I don't fully agree with Lucky's point of view, I understand (and agree with) his frustration at Acts that feel good enough is "good enough". I personally work my arse off because I really believe any minute now someone is going to tap me on the shoulder and say "Hey! What are YOU doing up here on stage?? Get off!" but I see a lot of acts who seem to think that they have a right to be there, hard working or not.

I have strong feelings about this, and I know not everyone shares what I think, but I'm pretty sure one of the first problems with music & performers of any era that aren't up to snuff can be traced back to a lack of love and passion for what they do.

Anyone agree?

Yep!

Gary

I agree.

chas