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#249375 - 02/07/09 11:33 AM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
rsm2000e Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 21
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by MusiCo:
(edited for space)
Next....drumroll...the SOUND !
I really don't know how ANYONE can state that there's no noticeable difference in the sounds. Those people have to go and buy a hearing device instead of an arranger !
Again, I had the T2 and T3 back-to-back over the same soundsystem with the EQ's on the mixer all in neutral and compared lots of sounds. T3 sounds far,far better than T2, mainly due to the new super-high quality DSP's. Turn the DSP's off and it's a different story. If you are using external effectprocessors of superior quality, I can imagine the T2 sounding very close on the majority of the sounds.

Brings me to the SA2 sounds. It's just a handfull of sounds, of which the clarinet, trumpet and sax are the only ones worth noticing. I was very impressed by the natural and 'organic' feel of these sounds. This is almost an analog experience ! If you play the instruments within the range and in the way the real thing is played, it's very,very good. Even better than the demo's where the guys are playing too many notes too fast and far too continuously to make it convincing that you're hearing the real deal.
The both SA2 buttons were kind of a dissapointment ; they mostly perform perfectly the same glissando time and time again,using the PB wheel would sound more convincing in some occasions. The SA2 effects are not so new : they are just plain multi-layered (up to 40) samples. It's just that Yamaha have really thought about when to activate which layer, and I must say that they've done a great job in that. The few SA2 sounds will soon become the favorite turn-to leadsounds whenever you need a wind instrument.

Piano-sounds
If you like Bach and Brahms and aren't too much of a real pianist, they will do. As accompaniment or part of a style, they're fine.
But to my tast the piano's sound too much like a music-box. With the ModWheel you can "close the lid" and make the sound warmer and less bright, that already makes a huge difference. I personally don't like bright ear-piercing piano sounds, and I prefer the warm, damped and raw blues-piano sound of my RD-100 (which, besides the EP1 sound) is the only reason I hang on to it. The pianosounds of the T3 are no match for this old entry-level stagepiano. But I have to say : the competitors of the T3 also sound like toy-piano's. That might be to Japanese taste the way a piano should sound, but I think it lacks "rawness". My guess would be that they had to improve the piano sound and focussed on the classical concert piano, where the samples had to be a few steps below the Yammie EP-range, and next they overengineered the sound in the effectsdepartment.

Organ/flutes
Best sounding organsounds in a Yamaha to date, but boy am I glad I still have my Hammond XK1. The B3-ish organ sounds are truly overengineered and to me rather sound like a parody of a Hammond than a wannabe-Hammond. The thin, englisch and Klaus Wunderlich type of organ-sounds are fine.

Guitars :
Boy, do they sound great ! You can hear that the DSP's are derived from real E-guitar DSP's. Very convincing sounds, effects and expressiveness.
All the styles use the guitar-engine : regardless of the chord played, the notes are within the range and played in the sequence like you would on a real guitar. I haven't tried it, but I was ensured by a Yamaha representative that this also can be used in your own custom styles. For me this would be a much used functionality, so again lots of points on my personal realism-scale ! T2 doesn't offer this.

Synths/Pads :
derived from the Motif, which I tried a week before. I must say the out-of-the-box sounds are better from the T3. Synth sounds are very,very personal cause they do not refer to excisting instruments, so go and hear for yourself. The sounds are very useable, but it's no replacement for the in-depth en wicked stuff you can do with a real Synth. But Again, I'll use the Triton for that, so no reason for ME to walk away from the T3.

Vocals / Strings / Orchestral Ensemble :
I personally prefer the KORG sounds, which have more layered effects and can sound more impressive. On the T3 these sounds are less thin then on the T2, but there's still room for improvement left.

Drums & Bass :
WOW ! this is where I really got excited about the T3 and where it will prove to be a worthwile addition to my (studio)setup !
Drums and Bass sound very natural and really KICK ! Yamaha said goodbye to decades of offering only very thin Bass and Drum sounds. The tyros-speakers yamaha can provide can in NO WAY do justice to these sounds. This add's a great deal to the overall soundquality of any music produced on the T3.

Summary :
The Tyros range has the reputation of being a "wedding & one man band" keyboard. The demo's Yamaha have been giving world wide are trajected on to that usergroup, which I think is a shame. Although they're now selling 100 T3's daily....I think it could have easily been more.

Price :
It's expensive and I'm paying for al kinds of stuff I don't need, but to me it's worth it for fullfilling MY PERSONAL needs within MY PERSONAL budget.
We can expect expansionpacks with new SA2 Voices and Styles, but this will add to the total price. I'm sure I'm gonna be using it a lot over the coming 5 years or so.

It's a matter of doing your homework and finally calculating the pro's and con's and making the right descision for your personal situation.




What speakers are you using with your T3? And what are your EQ and Compression settings?

I am frustrated and want to get this thing to sound as good as it does on all the YouTube videos I've seen... so far it's not quite there...

ALSO___ I note a momentary delay when I hit the BALANCE button and then pull the slide bars up or down to adjust volume on the Song, Style, Right Voice 1,2,3... does any one else notice this apparent "Lag" between when you first move the slider (to adjust a specific volume up or down) and when the sound actually "adjusts"??? Or do I have a defective board??

Thanks.

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#249376 - 02/07/09 12:41 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
rsm2000e Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 21
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
So you bought this unit just by demos alone ....or did you actually go try it in person thru your sound system & then make a decision? Did your dealer offer a return time period also?



I'm totally satisfied with the Tyros 3. My initial concerns were simply caused by an incomplete understanding of the board and how it's 'different' from my PSR S900. It's a GREAT instrument, in my view.

Cheers...

[This message has been edited by rsm2000e (edited 02-13-2009).]

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#249377 - 02/07/09 12:47 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
rsm2000e Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 21
Loc: USA
One thing you may also notice is that the keybed on the Tyros is much firmer than the PSR S900. You might want to alter the touch to soft1 or soft2 setting, so that the instruments like sax will give you the full range of sound that you're looking for. Otherwise the way you have to really hammer the keys to get the full expression range out of the Sax may wind up with you feeling 'disappointed' in the sound, when in reality it's simply an adjustment to the amound of key pressure that's needed.. fortunately, this is easily changed in the settings area of this board. The downside of this is that OTHER instruments sound better with the "normal" keybed pressure setting.... so it's more "touchy" than the PSR S900, which isn't necessarily bad...

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#249378 - 02/07/09 12:49 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Thanx for the reply ......getting something that is perfect for YOUR needs only is the tricky part

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#249379 - 02/07/09 01:27 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
rsm2000e Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 21
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Thanx for the reply ......getting something that is perfect for YOUR needs only is the tricky part


I'm happy with the T3. It DOES take some getting used to, though. Steve D. at Yami reminded me that instrument voicings are truly in the ear of the beholder. Once you look at it that way, it's all good... not every voice may be 'it' for you, but believe me, there are a BUNCH of great-sounding voices on the Tyros 3, including some 'newer' stuff like the hip hop and some nice edgy synth sounds. If you want to make good music and not spend a lifetime flipping switches and tweaking settings to get there, the T3 is it... (JMO)

[This message has been edited by rsm2000e (edited 02-13-2009).]

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#249380 - 02/07/09 01:48 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
jwyvern Offline
Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally posted by rsm2000e:
One thing you may also notice is that the keybed on the Tyros is much firmer than the PSR S900. You might want to alter the touch to soft1 or soft2 setting, so that the instruments like sax will give you the full range of sound that you're looking for. Otherwise the way you have to really hammer the keys to get the full expression range out of the Sax may wind up with you feeling 'disappointed' in the sound, when in reality it's simply an adjustment to the amound of key pressure that's needed.. fortunately, this is easily changed in the settings area of this board. The downside of this is that OTHER instruments sound better with the "normal" keybed pressure setting.... so it's more "touchy" than the PSR S900, which isn't necessarily bad...


Hi rsm
Go into Voice set Common tab when a SA2 voice is loaded and set both the Touch Sense & Depth offset for it up from 64 to about say 70.
Then you should get more expression without having to upset the global touch and without thumping the keys so hard.

John

[This message has been edited by jwyvern (edited 02-07-2009).]

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#249381 - 02/07/09 01:50 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by rsm2000e:
Drove to a music store in a major city and noodled around on a T3 wearing headphones, sounded pretty good to me.

Shopped like crazy, finally found a great deal at www.audioworksCT.com (Frank Ventresca) for an amazing price (brand new) that was substantially better than anything I found elsewhere on the web and far better than the "MAP" (price-fixing minimum advertised price from Yami). So I'm happy with my purchase


And then we wonder why brick and mortar stores are going broke, and arrangers are getting harder and harder to actually 'try BEFORE you buy' all across the country.

Didn't it occur to you that the store that allowed you to play the unit had an expectation of your purchase after they had gone to the considerable expense of buying the unit (Yamaha don't LEND them to stores!) for their customers to try...?

Next time you can't find a new keyboard to try, have to buy one just to see what it can do, and lose 15% or so restocking fee when you return it (and several others) before you find what you want, remember your part in that fiasco.

You know, as hard as it is getting hands on on these incredibly expensive instruments, if it were me, I would charge $100 for every person that wanted to try a TOTL arranger in my store, refundable against the purchase of one. Would I sell a few less? Perhaps... But perhaps not, with guys like this using me as a 'demo' site and buying elsewhere...

Support your local dealer! Or one day (pretty soon now) he won't be there at all...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#249382 - 02/07/09 01:58 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Common Diki get real!! INTERNET sales rule in todays world ....its a new ball game baby!

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#249383 - 02/07/09 02:22 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
And you, of all people, know how expensive chasing down that elusive 'perfect arranger' can be when you have to either restock, or sell slightly 'used' anything you try...

Just imagine if no Ketron dealer were even WILLING to put on an Audya clinic, because of the knowledge that all the participants would then leave, find the cheapest online price they could get, and leave them with costs and no profit?

Then you WOULD have to buy one, just to find out what was wrong with it (as you have with nearly everything else, at one time or another!). And at maybe $5k a pop, that's not going to be easy, especially if it IS as flawed as we think it is, to unload.

It maybe the future, but stores may be the past. At least for the increasingly rare TOTL arranger...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#249384 - 02/07/09 02:41 PM Re: Again with the Tyros 3
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
And then we wonder why brick and mortar stores are going broke, and arrangers are getting harder and harder to actually 'try BEFORE you buy' all across the country.

Didn't it occur to you that the store that allowed you to play the unit had an expectation of your purchase after they had gone to the considerable expense of buying the unit?



Geez Diki, lighten up will ya'. Retail (brick and mortar) stores are open to the public to serve the consumer's needs and interest. If they can't compete with online (or wholesale) stores, who's to blame a person for buying elsewhere? If a person doesn't want all the "frills" of extra after sales services, that is a person's choice, right, and "prerogative" to chose not to go that route.

I feel for guys like George Kaye and others who own traditional brick and mortar retail stores and are struggling to survive in an age of much larger internet retailers and brick and mortar wholesalers out there like GC. It's called competition and to be truthful only the strong (and more economically feasible) companies survive. That's the nature of owning a business and having products that are comparable in price to your competition. If certain retail joints can't survive the market then they have to consider their choices and either try harder to compete or else maybe look for another line of work or business that would suit them better economically. Plain and simple truth, even though mom and pop stores add so much more to the buying experience than you can get at online stores and/or wholesalers. But a person has the right to shop wherever he or she wants. It's called "freedom" of choice. We live in America (or for those in Europe, Europe), we don't live in Russia or North Korea, right?

PS: For those who realize the overall benefit of the mom and pop experience i.e. "after sales service satisfaction", and choose to go that route I say bully for them. And I'm all for George and the guy on the East Coast succeeding and thriving in today's market too. They are really great guys and very personable and outgoing in their demeanor towards their customers and those here on the SZ. But consumers in America and Europe have the choice of doing what they think is in their best interest. Who are we to say different? It's a free society. Unlike Russia and you know who..

All the best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 02-07-2009).]
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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