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#2477 - 01/08/03 10:08 PM Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have a question. I like electronic music, and I love synthesizers. But the problem is I have very little talent, and I can not read sheet music. I can regonize notes and know the keys on a keybord and some chords and scales, and a few songs but that is it. I have been able to make up a song, but the problem is that it only works on the keyboard I thought it up on and that's it. Plus I have spent way too much money buying synths that did not get used, and wound up selling them. So my question is is there a way I could create music just for my own enjoyment, with out spending an inordent amount of money? I don't like those home keyboards. I had a Casio CTK-711EX, that never really got used. I was only able to make up one peice of music on it. The features that I do like on synthesziers are the Joystick style pitch bend mod lever, Arpgeiators, espically the ones the sequnce back groove type tracks not just notes going up and or down or both. And Knobs I espically like knobs. I like being able to grab something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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#2478 - 01/08/03 10:34 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
What is talent? It is often used to describe some innate ability. Talented people often fall behind due to lack of practice and development. In my experiance, one is only good at whatever they practice. The more time you spend in front of a synth, or with any musical instrument in your hands, the better you will be at it. All it takes is time, dedication and desire.

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#2479 - 01/08/03 11:10 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you cloakboy. That is the advice I was looking for.

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#2480 - 01/09/03 03:45 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
MRT1212 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 375
Loc: Foster City
cloakboy is spot on
_________________________
never sell out,
buy in
gone out back to shoot myself in the head on the advice of one cloakboy

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#2481 - 01/09/03 07:50 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Jiddu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Australia
have you seen band in a box? It has some other nifty things that can help people with writing music.

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#2482 - 01/09/03 08:18 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you Jiddu, I will ahve to look into that.

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#2483 - 01/09/03 10:32 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
Band in a Box is a piece of poo poo sandwiched between two ass cheeks. It is an ass sandwich made of ass and poo.

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#2484 - 01/09/03 10:48 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


LOL ok cloakboy, what do you suggest?

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#2485 - 01/10/03 05:44 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Pilot Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 328
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Hey Cloakboy, it's not that bad. Useful for making up new keyboard styles (if you're into that). In any case we probably wouldn't have got PowerTracks without BIAB. A nice cheap sequencer with lots of features.

Bryan

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#2486 - 01/10/03 07:12 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey Bryan, what about me? do you have anything advice wise for me. I would appericate it if you answered my question and not another memebers. Thank You!

Regards, Paul

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#2487 - 01/10/03 04:02 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Pilot Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/02
Posts: 328
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Sorry Paul, but it wasn't too far from the topic. Why not just use the computer to make music. There are a lot of very good sound cards out there such as the SW1000XG which has essentially the same synth as the high end Yamaha keyboards. XGworks is a very good sequencer for this card. Cakewalk Home Studio is a very powerful sequencer for the price or even Cakewalk Express which is very cheap. Any old midi keyboard will do as a midi controller if you need one.

Bryan

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#2488 - 01/10/03 04:10 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok Bryan, no problem, thaks for the information.

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#2489 - 01/10/03 06:53 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


For a beginner's use I would rate BIAB as practical and time saving, although it is not quite as educational as I would wish. I would say however that it is educational.
Cloak, for you or I BIAB may get the doo doo rating, but that is because we are beyond the juncture of where BIAB is feasible. I edit wav's. I write my own FFT's and xfm files. It would be like me looking for an OEM preset effect in cool edit for an echo or whatever. It's not feasible when my own are three times cleaner right?
MORPH!

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#2490 - 01/11/03 07:46 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I take it that Band in a Box is something to consider then.

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#2491 - 01/12/03 12:30 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
Find a demo first, BIAB used to have demo versions availible, if they don't, then ****ing pirate it. If you like electronic music, BIAB is not for you. BIAB is for tonedeaf mongoloids with no taste in music whatsoever who literally want the computer to make the music for them. I've heard of these "styles" in the "arranger" sense and it honestly sounds like crap to me. If you're going to let a computer make music for you, at least let it be fractals.

Anyway - since I've come out so strongly against BIAB, I guess I'm somehow obligated to list alternatives. Fruity Loops is a "toy" program that I'm actually very fond of, and if it's price ever dropped from $100 to something like $20, I'd buy it for shits and giggles. Reason is a step above FL, but I've never touched it - still might be worth looking into. If nothing else, pirate an old copy of Rebirth, as much as I hate that program it's 100,000 times better than Ass-Sandwich In A Box.

What do I use? I sequence an Ensoniq ASR-10, an Ensoniq Fizmo, and a Korg MS2000Rack with Logic Gold 4.8. I also use Logic's plug-in sampler, EXS24, along with Reaktor as virtual instruments. In my opinion, and this is entirely subjective, this is the best setup. Of course, if you're just beginning, I would not advise Logic or Reaktor for a newbie as they're both very complicated. I started out on ScreamTracker, but I would not advise anyone doing that as you'd likely spend most of your time learning how to program in hex, which is a waste, really. But I also started playing string bass and saxophone when I was 8, years before I ever touched a computer, so I had a little bit of music knowledge by the time I got to that point.

Other suggestions you may get are things like Cubase and Cakewalk/Sonar, which are sequencers just like Logic. You might try tackling a MIDI sequencer, but I think the absolute free form they offer might overwhelm you if you don't know much about musicianship and songwriting. Step sequencing in a program is the way I think you should go for now, not only would it be easier to get your ideas out that way, but it also seems to fit more into the popular/dance electronic music aesthetic.

Of course, if when you say "electronic music" you mean stuff like Iannis Xenakis, then you're already in too deep.

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#2492 - 01/12/03 06:58 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
OldSchool Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 217
Loc: Lexington, KY USA
You can make something being anywhere on the continuum from "know nothing of music" to "Brahms studied under me", but where you are on the continuum will determine how much of yourself is really in the final product.

Near the "know nothing..." end of the spectrum is Acid using the included stock of samples - true drag-and-drop "creation." (MTV has marketed an even simpler version of this which I've seen in middle school general music classes - can't remember the name, but 6-graders with little musical background can produce something with it!) A little further along would be BIAB. I suspect Cloakboy's reaction to it is more stylistic criticism than anything - I'm sympathetic, but I'd put Fruity Loops at about the same level. Fruity Loops is more groove oriented whereas BIAB produces cutesy chord progressions and childish arpeggiation, hence it's pretty out of step with current music trends.

From there you'd go to sequencing - sampled loops and synths driven by MIDI files generated from a simple software package (the step-wise suggestion eliminates the need for playing skills, but not musical knowledge). By the time you get to Sonar or Cubase, you're going to have to seriously know something about music.

In general...do what makes you happy. If you can't find a comfortable and satisfying place for yourself on the above continuum with your current level of knowledge, the best way to improve yourself is to find musicians who know more than you, and pursue their company. (Preferably "warm bodies" rather than us virtual folks - there's a limit how much you can learn about music from text bulletin boards!) Music is, more than anything else, an oral and personal tradition, and you learn best from others who are further along.
_________________________
"The problem with the world is that the ignorant are cock-sure, whereas the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell

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#2493 - 01/12/03 07:39 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I wan to thank evryone for their oppions and advice. I tahs really given me something to think about.

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#2494 - 01/12/03 09:58 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
Quote:
Originally posted by OldSchool:
A little further along would be BIAB. I suspect Cloakboy's reaction to it is more stylistic criticism than anything - I'm sympathetic, but I'd put Fruity Loops at about the same level. Fruity Loops is more groove oriented whereas BIAB produces cutesy chord progressions and childish arpeggiation, hence it's pretty out of step with current music trends.


Fruity Loops can be utilized as a serious musical tool... Ass-sandwich in a Box can't. People can go beyond the obvious with Fruity Loops, and while limiting in many ways, it can still be used to make innovative music. Plus FL by itself can sound good to the average listener. None of this is true with Ass In A Box.

[This message has been edited by Cloakboy (edited 01-12-2003).]

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#2495 - 01/12/03 12:28 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


So your saying I should look into buying Fruity Loops then?

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#2496 - 01/12/03 02:54 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
Find a demo version first if they offer one. Try before you buy, see if you can figure out how to make it control your hardware synths (I'm pretty sure FL can).

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#2497 - 01/12/03 04:25 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


OK well now I have to go looking for a hardware synth to use. Can't use my two old Arp synths.

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#2498 - 01/12/03 04:38 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
OldSchool Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 217
Loc: Lexington, KY USA
No need for that. Fruitly Loops demo is free for download at Tucows...see http://www.fruityloops.com/. Acid also has a demo which you can get at http://www.sonicfoundry.com/. And, just to help fuel the slander, Band in a Box has a demo at http://www.pgmusic.com/. All, I believe, use included sampled sounds to get you started so you won't need your synths at first, though I think Cloakboy is right about Fruity Loops being open MIDI as well.
_________________________
"The problem with the world is that the ignorant are cock-sure, whereas the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell

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#2499 - 01/12/03 05:13 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks Oldschool, I was just at Cakewalk.com looking at some of the software that might be eaiser for me such as Music Creator 2003 And PC Music Pack 2003, and Plasma 2003. These looked a little eaiser to work with then Fruity Loops, since Cakewalk dose sell them but they are more for the pros. And I am more of a hobbyiest. I had Cakewalk Home Studio 7 for a while, but that was still a little confuseing. I think I need something to work with right away, and not get boged down with any complicated menues and such.

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#2500 - 01/13/03 07:55 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ok well I downloaded BIAB and Fruity loops Demo Versions. And I hate to admit it but I prefer Fruity loops over BIAB. Actually after playing BIAB and hearing how awful it sounds, ranks up there with elevator music yuck!, I deleted it. So you were right Ooldschool Fruity loops is what I am looking for, even though it is a litle more pro oriented. It has the typs of grooves I am looking for. By the way do you know where I could download demo copies of software synthesizers?

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#2501 - 01/14/03 11:50 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Jiddu Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/01
Posts: 259
Loc: Australia
Sorry paul.. read your request wrong.

Thought you wanted to learn how to play music.

Cloakboy.. You gota lota rage.

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#2502 - 01/15/03 08:04 AM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I can play music, it's sheet music that I can not read. Right now I am trying out different things. Such as trying Fruity loops, and Acid Xpress 3.0. Put it this way I am no Mozart.

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#2503 - 01/15/03 12:47 PM Re: Can a person with very little musical talent create music?
Cloakboy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/99
Posts: 523
Loc: Racine, Wisconsin USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Jiddu:
Cloakboy.. You gota lota rage.


yeah.

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