http://korgpa.com/pa_root/en/news/news.html?en

I believe this is what we were waiting for? Just in time to load into my 2X.

Pa2X/Pa800 Operating System Version 2 Preview

OSIMO, Italy — Operating System Version 2.0 for the Pa2X/Pa800, Korg's most powerful arranger keyboards, will be released in November 2008. As usual, the new OS will be freely downloadable from Korg Italy's web site (www.korgpa.com), and can be easily installed by the user.

The new operating system includes important new features and enhancements, such as the extraordinary DNC (Defined Nuance Control), a Score Viewer, a powerful Search function – and much more.

• DNC Defined Nuance Control is a great advancement in sound generation and performance control. By assigning special articulations, noises and nuances to a physical control or playing style, you can increase the realism of your sounds.
By playing legato you can call up a different Sound, use after touch or the joystick to call in breath noise or harmonics. Or let the Pa automatically cycle between slightly different samples to add timbral variety to your playing.

• The Score Viewer displays the lead track (or any other track) as clear and plain traditional musical notations with notes or chords, together with lyrics and chord abbreviations. Chord names can also be seen in different languages (English and Italian). For music learners, we also added a function to show note names next to each note.
The Score Viewer automatically adapts the score display to the track’s key and clef, with automatic beaming, spacing and bar placement. Triplets and accidentals are automatically recognized. A sophisticated interpretation algorithm cleans up the score display, to allow for easy reading even with rubato (non-quantized) playing.

• The Search function is a great help for everyone keeping a huge collection of songs or samples in their hard drives. The flexible Search function can scan your disks or a single directory for files whose name includes the entered text string.

Also new are the extremely efficient polyphony manager, the renewed chord abbreviation display system, the programmable Quarter Tone Scale Presets, the MP3 player assignable to the sub-outs, the pedal calibration procedure, and a ninth drawbar added to the Pa800.

The new Polyphony Algorithm improves the overall performance with a sophisticated real time control, which also takes psychoacoustic parameters into account. Chord abbreviations are now easier to read, by following the standard suggested by “Standardized Chord Symbol Notation (A Uniform System for the Music Profession)” by C. Roemer and C. Brandt. Up to four Quarter Tone Scale Presets can be memorized, and easily recalled with on-screen soft buttons. MP3 audio output can be sent to the sub-outputs for separate mixing. Both the damper and the assignable pedal can be carefully calibrated for better response. And, finally, a Ninth Drawbar has been added to the Pa800 in the Drawbar page.

When you consider all the new features now available, it is almost like getting a whole new keyboard – but in the form of a free update!

OS 2.0 follows on from the powerful options and new OS features released since the introduction of the Pa2X/Pa800. Over the years the Pa-Series has become the keyboard of choice for countless professional musicians worldwide who demand the very best. Korg promised an ongoing series of powerful and exciting new features for the Pa2X/Pa800, and with 2.0 we continue to deliver on our promise.

OS 2.0 continues our commitment to deliver RX Technology that brings the most realistic musical experience for performers and the audience. DNC – Defined Nuance Control – takes RX Technology to a whole new level of the real world usefulness: that professional musicians demand. This is why the Korg Pa-Series instruments are the world’s leading Arranger Keyboards!




The Korg Italy Team

I want to hear a demo of this new OS, compared to the old OS.......

People are saying this is a MAJOR upgrade and cal the T3 aminor upgrade...Thats funny. Yamaha T2 already has much of this "upgrade". Score viewer, The PSR 700 has that

What about the TFT screen, DNC another term for SA1 or 2. They would have to add ROM to matcg the 400 sample layers in a typical SA2 voice. Extra assignable out puts outputs
meh..

This is a typical upgrade certaintly not a new keybard with over 200 more voices, TFT screen, Its nice that Korg did this but it is not creating a whole new keyboard,

I lke the korg and it has it's place but it should have had many of these features alreay on the T2! Ya think?

Hi Kingfrog,
difference is it's FREE.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kingfrog:
[B]

I've got a feeling this is not over, yet...

Korg just gave away FOR FREE over 600MB of superb sampler content for the M3 from the Oasys library, including one of the best four-way grand pianos I have heard.

Maybe Korg could be persuaded to format it for PA2...

And Kingfrog... you're kidding, aren't you? How much did it cost a T1 owner to get SA? Or a T2 owner to get SA2? Yep, at least $1000-1500 each time.

Way to go Yamaha.

Zuki, you made my heart skip a beat. I thought Korg uploaded the new OS when I saw your post. I know it says November, but the Korg rep who was at Frankieve's Arranger Fiesta said the goal release date was October 19th, in retrospect I think he meant November 19th. I didn't question him about the October because I thought well he's the rep if he says October 19th goal date then it must be. By the way did some say they have the George Washington Bridge for sale?

The Korg rep also had a small sample preview of the new OS including score viewer ( limited use for my purposes) and some DNC voices including acoustic guitar and flute, although they weren't necessarily earth shattering they are an improvement.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 10-27-2008).]

Hi Kingfrog...
Also...the complete capabilities of the Defined Nuance Control voices ARE available to use for any voice programming you want!
Not just a small number that will be provided.

WOW!

Go here for a small demo of some of the new voices...http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=37642&sid=e1e2a1244e37ce5c282a7a315a1dd5c2

Lee

SA2 is not the only upgrade. Its just one of many that required a whole new design.
People are quick to forget the rest of the differences. There are a ton of them on paper. Match the specs of both, then look at the Hardware upgrades..
The 200 plus more voices, revamped EFX engibe, Hard drive, Sliders,and Screen, and SA2 voices alone are worth that much. plus m expandability with voice packs, and endless styles to choose from and convert.

I'd say $1000 is a no brainer....$2000? One must decide which they need the most. If I had a T2 I would defiantly spend $1000 for a T3. $2000? That depends on my financial situation and whether I felt the additions were worth it AFTER I actually compared the specs which many apparently have not done. All they hear about is SA2. I would not have upgraded for ONLY SA2 voices...those are a bonus to the rest of the differences


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-27-2008).]

INdeed but they are not new samples they are controller manipulations. SA2 voices use aminimum of 400 samples per voice which takes up 1/6th of the entire ROM for 5 voices. I doubt Korg loaded all that ROM for the same effect on ALL the voices.

But its free. OS upgrades are usually a good thing and worth every penny.

Don't need new samples..there are thousands already in there...even though I would like some new ones and some have already done some themselves...I may do some of that myself someday soon..just for fun...actually everything I need is probably already there?

We will see how good OS2 is soon...and other upgrades are planned by Korg already.

The key to me will be how 'REAL' the instruments sound AND if they are easy to play.

Never used the score feature on my T2 so no big deal to me on that one...supposedly quite a few new styles will be included in the new musical resource...but we will see soon...

Lee

It seems this OS is not for Pa500...

http://www.mister-music.de/demosongs/GuitarDNC.mp3
http://www.mister-music.de/demosongs/StringsDNC.mp3
http://www.mister-music.de/demosongs/TenorSaxDNC.mp3

this is the upgraded OS2 sounds......?
Oh my! Tyros 3 SA voices have nothing to fear

I never saw an automatic score generation feature that was particularly accurate, anyway. Heck, even Finale can muck it up

Look, I know it's great to play King of the Hill, but it starts to grate when others begin to come close, and they didn't even have to pay for it! Yet alone when one's cherished (and expensive) feature is totally out of your editing capability, and theirs is at their complete command...

Yes, Korg have a way to go to catch up. But at least their owners are not being soaked while they do Ask any T1 owner if he would have liked to have had SA for free... or a T2 owner how happy he would be if Yamaha made SA2 a free upgrade.. (and let him make his own TVN's that used it)

Sure, there's lots more to a T3 than SA2. But nobody's exactly crowing over a score reader, are they? 90% of all the comments about the T3 are those SA2 voices. And the revoiced styles and EQ. Nothing that couldn't have been added to a T2 with a software upgrade and some TVN's.

It's early days for the PA2X owners. But it's done and done with the T3.

Close, and pretty good, but far from SA2 territory....skilful playing still doesn't make up for the differences.

Sure it's cool to get the free Korgian upgrade, but if want the best, you still have to get a Tyros3.

Ian

I have to say the sax is really nice, wow. very good. But no Korg for me, not until they revamp their entire latin section.

If you want the best SA2 voices, that is.

If you want the best drums, the best sampler, the best sequencer, the best voice editing, the best 76 note keyboard, the best harmonizer, the best style and SMF editing tools, the best Guitar Mode, the best 'live' sound, you may have to look elsewhere....

Look, the technology is in place. All Korg need now is a nice sized sampler load to take full advantage of the new triggering options (again, I remind you of the FREE 600MB+ that Korg gave away for the M3, so let's not assume it ain't coming, along with styles that use it).

How hard is it to imagine how ecstatic all the T2 owners would have been, if Yamaha decided to add SA2 capability (even if not yet fully exploited) FOR FREE...? Or the new guitar triggering modes? Or the score reader?

Or ANYTHING AT ALL...

Correctomundo.They are that good! Best Saxophones and Guitars I have ever played...

It's not just how good they sound, but how easy it is for an average player to really be expressive, and the experienced player to find all those subtle nuances missing from other arrangers.

I know, I know...I sound like a Yamaha ad...you know how biased I am...so, try one out for yourself, my friend, and then decide.

I think you'll be very impressed.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-27-2008).]

There's that word "BEST" again

Yes Donny, they are the "Best" I have ever played...my opinion.

When you play a Tyros3 you'll understand.

Ian

Actually, I AM very impressed. With the SA/SA2 voices.

But, when you take into consideration what you have to give up to get them, they just don't seem the compelling reason to buy, at least for THIS player...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
http://www.mister-music.de/demosongs/GuitarDNC.mp3
http://www.mister-music.de/demosongs/StringsDNC.mp3
http://www.mister-music.de/demosongs/TenorSaxDNC.mp3

this is the upgraded OS2 sounds......?
Oh my! Tyros 3 SA voices have nothing to fear [/QUOTE
I liked the Nylon Guitar it's the same quality as the Yamaha's (albeit missing the Harmonics) Its sound like a differnt brand, But it's nice

The strings sounded cheesy and thin, but so do some of the Tyros 3's

The snare drum in the last track did not belong. IF this is and example of the great drums I can understand where thy might be considered so. This song is not where that snare belonged. It sounded EXACTLY the same on each hit, and it Sounded like a heavy brass snare where a maple one should have been used. The sax wasn't close to the SA2 sax.

Its great that Korg does worthy upgrades as it give's those who feel the instrument is incomplete hope.

I don;t feel there is anything about the Tyros I would want "upgraded" It is all I want as it is. I just want see and hear what those voice packs will offer.

But to compare the scope of the Korg upgrade with the difference between the T2 and T3 is a huge stretch of the imagination and reality.

"The Korg M3 has been "Xpanded" with an updated ROM, three PCM Expansion volumes, DAW-derived editing tools, advanced KARMA implementation, plus enhanced TouchView functionality and features. "

If they add those features...Now THAT would be a hell of an upgrade. I don't see them doing that otherwise they would have done it at the same time. They gave a piece of that to the PA2x.

DNC, a search function, A polyphonic fix,score viewer,ninth drawbar.......I really don't see the MAJOR upgrade here. Looks more like some fixes and a few goodies. Certainly not worth designing another whole new keyboard around.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-27-2008).]

I understand, Diki...the ideal unit for you would be a rack mount with SA2 voices...perhaps Yamaha's next Motif will have them and the subsequent module?

A great player like you would have a field day working with these sounds

What impresses me most about the SA2 voices is the ease of sounding so darn good even without using the buttons...just playing technique alone does marvelous things to the sound.

I'll stop gushing now...

I'm just waiting for someone to write a Sonar INS file so I can use the sequencer to revoice my songs. The T2 is close but needs 200 plus voices added

I'm not into the whole MSB/LSB thing.

You've a right to gush...

I can only hope that the next Motif series will implement the SA/SA2 voices the same way the T2/3 has. I've played the XS6, and the way they are implemented there is a shadow of how well they are for the player to play (rather than the sequencer to sequence) in the Tyros.

I heard quite some rumblings about this issue at Motifator, perhaps Yamaha is listening...?

And Kingfrog, what is your major malfunction? DNC is SA technology (maybe SA2, I haven't scoped the manual, yet). Yes, the content hasn't quite arrived yet, but you can be sure it is coming. NOBODY called SA technology on the T2 when it superseded the T1 a 'minor upgrade'!

And THIS SA technology is completely at the command of the user... I don't know if you have been watching, but this kind of technology has been around for a while on GIGASAMPLER, and there is a huge library of sound samples already developed to make the most of it. It shouldn't be long before some enterprising owner puts two and two together, and ports some of this stuff over. Maybe even Korg could negotiate for some of it (I'm sure the developers would LOVE another sales outlet)...

This, in the mind of anyone not insecure about their recent expensive purchase, is some pretty significant stuff. The more you try to trivialize this, the more desperate you sound, IMO. Give some kudos to Korg for developing this, giving it away for free, and making it user accessible....

You are not THAT bitter, are you?

Hell no I HAD THE KORG PA2X for 16 weeks.
I played the Tyros 2 all day long at the store and STILL bought the Korg for $1000 MORE when I could have bought the T2 for $2300 new. The T3 changed all that. It gave me what I bought the Korg for and more. Drawbars (where they should be) Much better acoustic sounds. SA2 which is nice but its only a few voices. Far better screen with VGA out which is important to me as I did not want to pay extra for the Video out capability on the Korg and My studio is set up so I can see all my screens in front of me and not have to look left to see what the Tyros is up to.

There was nothing they could do to the PA2x board to make me want to keep it once the T3 was revealed. Against the T2 I would have kept it.

TNO IM not bitter, I just don't understand the logic of dismissing the T3 as a minor upgrade and claiming the Korg upgrade is like getting a whole new keyboard free.
Even you have to see the ignorance in that line of thought? no?

Besides that I still could own both if I wanted to if I had the room and wanted to read two manuals. I just don't need a lot of the Korg features I thought were pretty neat (dual sequencers,76 keys,familiarity with Triton thus touch screen technology etc)

I'm beginning to think there is a bias against the Yamaha because of it's success.
But thats mostly in the US. I believe internationally the Korg is better recieve for its ethnic style availability.

T3 has Drawbars?

Well, I'm not the one claiming either...

The T3 has much improved over the T2. But, as many T2 owners are pointing out (not exactly the bastion of Yamaha bashers you would like to think!), it may not be enough to warrant the price difference (not all of us are lucky enough to only have $600/year property taxes!).

And the Korg upgrade is FAR beyond the 'minor upgrade' you tried to dismiss it as. No, it isn't a whole new keyboard (yet). The content to use this technology has yet to arrive in quantity. But anyone realistic would expect it FAR more likely that Korg would deliver the content (for free, even) than Yamaha ever will. Yamaha have already announced the expansion TVN downloads they will be SELLING, and as of yet, no word whether any of this content is possible to be SA2. I'm not holding my breath, that's for certain...

As for Yamaha 'bashing', please.... So, when you critique a piece of gear, it's a 'review', but when anyone else 'reviews' a Yamaha, it's REALLY a 'bash'? Why so insecure?

It's a great piece of gear. Just like my G70. And, just like my G70, not without it's flaws...

I agree. I owned the PA2X for a fair amount of time. I feel qualified to point out the failings as they apply to my needs. I think Yamaha does get bashed a tad more than other boards. I understand why. I also believe Roland is more focused on their Pro Keyboards and really doesn't want to be a major player in the Arranger world. The E series is hard to find in the US. The G70 is over a generation older than the Korg and Yamaha products,

I know nothing about the G70 except that they were not selling on Ebay for $1800. That was my reason for passing on it, not to mention Roland does not seem to want to be a player in the Arranger world. I know how good Roland is we have an RD700 and its a great board and has great Drums and other sounds as well.

I think when the OS2 is out and we have some time to learn all of it....some may be more impressed than they might think?

I will tell you this...when I heard the PA2 demo's via MP3's on-line AND even in the store with high ens headphones..VS when I got it home and played it with my Mackie sound system...WOW! This baby sounds superb!

I think the DNC is a lot better than you may think...when I get it (soon) I will certainly give an honest opinion here. I can go 5 minutes from here and spend as much time as I want on a T3 for comparisons. To be honest though...I probably won't as I am not looking to keep switching every time some new thing pops out...cost too much! I already am happy with the PA2 so all this is GRAVY!

ALSO remember with the PA we can make ANY sound use DNC...not just the ones that come with OS2...could be sme fun and we will be able to create our own SA2 like voicesif we want...
I will certainly try it.

We are also told MORE OS upgrades are in the works...so I for one will not need new hardware for quite some time..

Who knows???maybe my next hardware will be PA3 or T4???

Lee

If these upgrades keep going the way they are, there may be a T5 before you need a new Korg

Diki,
LOL...I hope so...I think it's terrible that some Mfg's expect you to buy a new board every 2 years for upgrades that COULD EASILY be done in the old machine IF they were not so Damm cheap in what they included when originally built.

Lee

Hi ,

for an Aust. owner, it would be even worse.

If I'm not mistaken Miden bought a second hand T2 for just over $2,000 AUD?
On one of the other posts, Nick enquired about a T3 & was quoted $6,000 AUD. Apparently they mustn't be doing deals currently.

Be hard pressed to spend $3500 to $4,000 upgrading from a T2 to a T3. Bought a new PA800 for less than $3,500 AUD.

Actually it's 87%....But they are worthy of discussion. The rest si an upgrade that could not have been done via software. Some of which brings it to the Korg Standards as in the Controllers. Others the new Rolands with the TFT screens. The additional voices and the new RFX engine allowing 5 EFX per style required more than a firmware upgrade.

The additional voice paks mean more to me than anything else as I don't mind paying for styles,voices and of files that I need. My time is worth more than the miniscule $3-$7 cost of styles and or MIDI files. That's one of the reasons I prefer Yamaha. I can buy anything I need without leaving the keyboard!!

Everyone has their favorites. I at least HAD a PA2X for 16 weeks, I don't see anything in the upgrade that's making me go.."oh Shyte shoulda kept the PA2x". If I really wanted the Korg Id buy a PA800 tomorrow. Everyone hears things differently no one is right.

BTW All the lower end Yamahas have score and Lyric readers....I don;t see that as an upgrade Yamaha has been doing that for years.

Except for me and you

To be honest, I've got a score reader on my G70. They are bloody useless. OTOH, a jpg or bmp reader, like the E80 has (but can't, due to hardware issues be retrofitted to the G70) is a thing of beauty.

Scan the lead sheet, link it to the style... couple of buttons for page turning, Bob's yer uncle! A nice way to get rid of fake books...

It's a T2/3 feature I wish Roland had. But, OTOH, given a choice between the Makeup Tools style and sequence editing tools and a fake book display, because I don't use fake books much I'd have to stay with the Makeup Tools, which I DO use on a daily basis...

One thing I LOVE about the Makeup Tools is that you can use it live... Play a sequence or style at the gig, and suddenly realize that the snare is a hair too loud, or the guitar part is too bassy, it's a snap to call up and adjust while you play, and then store at the end of the song. Fine tuning at the gig is the last step of polishing a mix, and the easier it is, the more likely you are to do it...

This goes WAY beyond simply dialing the volume of a style Track up or down. Just about everything, including the sounds within a kit, and all their EQ's, pitches, actual drum sounds, you name it, are VERY easily called up during playing, adjusted, and then stored. It's things like this that make me unable to change from Roland...

That’s a bit stretching it, but for Korg to release this update it’s must have seen sales decline or most likely lure potential Yamaha customers to purchase their boards, maybe some new or existing customers looking to upgrade to a T3. Don’t worry I sure that you won’t see too many of these updates, because eventually their going to want to sell new boards. I remember the Korg IS40/50 then they released the IS35, that as probably Korg’s version of updating software by releasing a new board. There wasn’t that much of a difference between the two, with the exception of the vocal harmonizer.

YES....YES.....YES....!

Roland's Makeup Tools are way beyond anything out there I agree Diki.....& a Very big reason why I kept the E60 also.

Well, a vocalizer isn't exactly a MINOR upgrade, either!

The thing is, this is the second MAJOR feature added to the current Korg arranger generation. For free.

First was the Guitar Mode (the best current implementation of this kind of feature, IMO), and now the direct equivalent of SA voicing technology.

And, if we are to believe Korg, this is FAR from over.

In effect, it's kind of like Yamaha adding their new guitar modes and SA1 to the Tyros1. FOR FREE... No, it wouldn't make it a T3. But it'd be a damn site closer than it is now!

Any T1 owners out there wouldn't like this? For free?

Didn't think so

Diki, agreed,

Well for me I'm no Yamaha fanatic, I don’t own T1 or T2. I own the s900 because of the price point and SA voices & styles that were included in the board that I like very much.

For whatever reason I guess Yamaha can not update T1 to include SA voicing, maybe they don’t want to, or can’t because of software/hardware, etc. But the update that Korg has now issued for free was for their current board’s pa800/pa2x. They did not extend to the pa1x/pa1xpro or the pa80. Why? lack of hardware, etc.

I think Korg is running scared against T3 & trying to keep what ever owners they have from switching with Free upgrades?

Got a good point!!

Korg took the PA1XPO as far as they could...they are out of memory for any upgrades. And a lot was done...all OS upgrades for free! Funny..I never got a single new feature in my $3500 T2???

Like I said before...these mfg's can do a LOT of free upgrades IF they put enough into the hardware in the first plac...if they skimp...then less can be done.

Of course there will be a PA3, but I think the upgrades will still go a long way yet on the PA2.

In reality, when you buy one you can't count on any upgrades...so far Korg is doing bettr than anyone else in this area...and they say MUCH MORE to come...we will see.

Lee

My last Korg was a PA80, so I don't know what updates came after for the PA1x/PA1xpro. But Ketron did the same thing as korg did for the Sd1, so korg wasn't the only one.

Personally, I think what Korg and Roland have done is perfectly illustrate what CAN be achieved with simple software upgrades alone.

That the market leader choses to ignore this is indicative of their attitude towards profits. Company first, customers second.

While Korg play catch-up in the area of CONTENT, now that the bare technological gap has been breached by DNC technology, Yamaha owners can continue to crow about it's capabilities. But that crowing will start to get muted once the samples for DNC to work on are introduced.

Yes, the Korg has few samples in ROM that can make the most of the new system yet. And that, from the reaction to the demos, is the Yamaha fanboys saving grace. But the bottom line is, the raw technology to do exactly the same as SA (and maybe SA2) is now a Korg feature as well. The capabilities of the system look VERY similar as far as I can tell. With one, of course, important difference. You can edit the Korg's SA technology, and you can create content yourself for it, or buy it from a third party.

So Korg, on capability alone, shoots WAY to the front. At no cost to the owner whatsoever. And, when the content arrives, there are an awful lot of Yamaha users, who have had NO choice whatsoever if SA technology is important to them (and I think it is a primary reason why many chose it) are going to look at Korg and think 'Well, it's already virtually a T3 - but in four year's time, it will probably be MUCH better, whereas the T3 will be exactly the same' and make a decision accordingly (remember, this is going to work on a PA800 as well as the PA2Xpro, for those that want 61 notes and speakers and much lower price!).

It's a piece of cake to remain the market leader when you have capabilities that no other arranger has. Basic, fundamental features. But that barricade has been broached. The walls are starting to crumble. And Yamaha, without a dominant technological edge, may have to reconsider the process of only making improvements in new models, when their competitors are doing it for FREE.

It's a short technological step from hero to zero...

Korg don't look like they are running scared... they look like they are looking to the future, and it just got a LOT rosier at no cost to their customers.

I don't think they are actually "running scared", but they do have to do something to stay in the game.

A brilliant move for sure, and although from the samples/demos I heard, they aren't quite in the same league as SA2, they do come close to SA1 and mega voice which are now a few years old.

Only time will tell if they can bump the quality up enough to achieve SA2 level...personally, I don't think T2/T3 owners will give a hoot, as they bought the instrument for more than the voices...the other features like a superb OS and excellent 3rd party support figure well into the decision, not to mention the CD quality sound.

Roland's G70 is at the end of it's cycle, apparently no longer supported with OS upgrades, and incapable of competing with either Yamaha's Mega, SA and SA2, or Korg's DNC technology...so what will they do?

Competition always improves the breed...perhaps we will see a Roland arranger that can once again run with the big boys.

Your move, Roland..the fanboys appear to be getting nervous.

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 10-28-2008).]

If korg is in fact catching up to Yamaha's T2 Sa voices, great it's about time. But if the biggest complaint about Yamaha's T3 is that it's to close to T2 even with the Sa2 voices. People have a choice..... don't buy it then. that's the only way to show Yamaha that their customers are unhappy with the board.

I bet if Yamaha made a 76 Tyros 3 there would be a lot less bitchn about them.

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 10-28-2008).]

Seems to be the only complaint, and not really a big one at that...probably good for Korg (and Roland) that they don't.

I'm noticing a lot of T2 owners going for the T3, so I guess the upgrade from one to the other is deemed to be substantial enough.

Ian

Loyalty usually rules. It was hard for me to step out of my comfort zone from Yamaha to Korg - but the former is history

Personally, I am waiting for Yamaha and Korg to catch up with the Roland's in certain critical areas, myself!

This 'fanboy' is in no rush to go out and buy another arranger with WORSE capabilities than the one he already has, just for a few well articulated sounds

Roland may be taking another tack from Korg, and waiting to announce any new arrangers with their version of this technology until the content is ready to go with it. And they are taking a different tack to Ketron by not announcing anything until it actually WORKS!

In the meantime, were I Yamaha, I would be getting nervous... The PA800, once the content gets updated, is a pretty stiff competitor to the T3, but with speakers and nearly $1000 LESS...

Firstly, it's only no big wup if you already don't use a 76. If you do, it's an insurmountable one. And I have already stated (and remain there) that were Yamaha to make a 76 S900, I would already have one!

And secondly, there are substantial numbers of T2 users NOT going to make the 'upgrade', as well, so I figure that issue is something of a 'push'.

Spin, spin, you Dervish, you!

I can't blame you for waiting, Diki, but I think the new Roland will be much better than you think...it will have to be to compete in the home market...that's where the profits are, not the pro market...

I have a feeling it will be based on the E-series rather than the G, although it could also be a bigger and more powerful version of the GW-8...but time will tell.

The pro arranger market is a niche market that Korg is trying to garner for themselves with the PA2XPRO, which has far more scope and potential than the G70, if we're talking "pro" market...as you say, Korg is just getting started.

The PA-800 is a home keyboard, and should do very well if they can upgrade it to the new technolgy, but I doubt if it will interfere with Yamaha's fan base...not enough support for one thing, plus SA2 is still top dog, and will probably remain that way till the T4.

Then it starts all over again...

Ian

Certainly there will be some that won't upgrade, but their numbers will be filled out by T1, PSR-3000, and perhaps a few E-80 owners...not to mention first time buyers, all who will want and enjoy the incredible technology and great support.

Ian

Yep, it sure is. It is quite at 'home' in being used as a pro keyboard during my daily performances - nothing tops it in my book With your talent, it's too bad you've haven't explored it in detail.

That's a nice no GREAT feature to have live for sure. IF I needed a live keyboard Arranger the YAMAHA TYROS would NOT be my first choice, I would have to play (or even find a G70) and or have kept the Korg. I have stated that on many occaions

The Yamaha is a studio unit solely. We will use tracks from it live but most of the tracks will go to the DAW before a CD. It's there where they will be tweaked, Effected and otherwise manipulated. IN a pinch the Yamaha is good enough IF one has a GREAT MIDI file to leave it alone and send it out on two outs. Others need four outs to seperate some tracks,

I would not use the Tyros live or any 61 keyboard for that matter. It looks unprofessional to me and certainly my wife who feels being hired as a keyboard player means nothing less than 88 weighted keys, with tracks if she needs them.

I would love to get my hands on a G70 for fun but they are no where to be found and my one and only chance to get one for $1750 a 120 miles away is long gone.

I love the Fantom but it is too redundant with what I already have in the studio. I don;t need the on board sequencer recorder.
When I was doing cruise ship gigs I did whole songs on the Triton and a laptop. But re voiced some when I got home.

IM really interested in the Motif's 6000 phrases and 4 arps. I may take a ride to GC and really give that a run. I would love to replace the RD700 with an X8. But I haven't mastered the Tyros yet and the Motif is far deeper. I'd rather play then be buried in print.

My remark certainly wasn't meant as a knock against the PA-800, Zuki...we both know that many pros take full advantage of a "home" instrument, and in many ways, it is a more practical piece of kit than a "pro" instrument.

I haven't tried one yet(nor a PA2XPRO), so I really can't give a qualified opinion on it's performance(just listened to on-line demos), but it must be good if it is doing an admirable job for you...

I feel the same way about my S900...does all my arranger jobs perfectly.

Ian

[qupte]It's a piece of cake to remain the market leader when you have capabilities that no other arranger has. Basic, fundamental features. But that barricade has been broached. The walls are starting to crumble. And Yamaha, without a dominant technological edge, may have to reconsider the process of only making improvements in new models, when their competitors are doing it for FREE.[/quote]

Having owned the Korg I certainly cannot claim the Korg has caught up with the Tyros 3 on any appreciable level. They are DIFFERENT. IF you prefer the Korg sounds you like the Korg. If phantom power on a keyboard is a plus you like the Korg,(personally I would not trust a keyboard pre amp to be very good). If a dumbed down early generation TC HElicon harmonizer engine is your cup of tea you like the Korg, 76 keys....again Korg. Upgrades are great for Korg users. It keeps Korg from having to design a new keyboard, Updates are far less expensive, Especially if they do not have enough technology ready to create a whole new keyboard,

On the other Hand Yamaha HAD to create a new board simply because of the physical additions. Even SA2 required two new buttons.
How can Korg claim SA2 type voices when they have not added the samples necessary to create them (400 SPECIFIC to the voice) samples per SA2 voice)

But the bottom line ultimately is what comes OUT of a keyboard. What the end user hears, That's why I decided on the Yamaha. But sounds are subjective and features are not. The keyboard with the most features does NOT win if the ultimate sound is not acceptable to the creative musician generating their ideas.

Ian,

I know you weren't I wish you could get your hands on one. You should see and hear this monster PA2XPro - unreal Whoever writes these styles is a genius!

Yeah, I heard the styles were "unique" and had lots of movement in them....certainly you would have your own "sound" since a lot of arranger players are using Yamaha or Roland.

I rarely use unedited styles on my S900...I prefer to assemble my own and try and give them a bit of "movement" like you hear in the Korg...probably not as successfully as I'd like, but they do give me a bit of a different sound.

The PA2XPro styles should sound even better with the OS upgrade.

Ian

I am not sure you have been reading my posts carefully, Kingfrog. I quite specifically stated that Korg has not yet created the CONTENT for the new DNC technology (let's just call it SA, and stop beating around the bush!), but that it CAN be added to this arranger, not bought at considerable expense by HAVING to trade up to the next PA model.

It can also be added by the user themselves, should they be able to create the content themselves (which no Yamaha user can). Korg can certainly claim SA type content (they don't claim SA2, but I am still not quite sure of the difference other than the two buttons for triggers - Korg certainly allow that). There's not much yet, but it can be added. No word from Yamaha yet whether their voice Packs can ADD to the T3's SA2 voice content, yet.

But the technology now exists, it only awaits the content, and THEN (and not before) you will hear a considerable improvement in the sounds. It's not here yet. But it's knocking at the door (and not trying to sell you something!)