I apologize for hijacking this thread.

Maybe we should move it over to the BAR because it's about time US citizens get their heads out of the sand and show some deep passion for the issues facing this country and our brothers and sisters.

I am in the 18 percentile and make a good salary based on statistics. I did NOT get a stimulus check.

What the statistics don't say is that I support a family of 5; two kids in college, live in the highest taxed state in the union; New York; pay high energy costs, transportation/commuting costs; health care costs, property taxes, sales taxes, and HUGE income taxes both at the federal and state level. How come I don't feel rich? I'm barely scraping by after my expenses. Why, I can't even afford a brandy new Tyros 3, that's how broke I am.

Statistics do not explain the entire economic impact on families.

I would vote for eliminating the income tax and going for the flat tax. IF a constitutional amendment was added to eliminate income taxes otherwise we would someday pay both.


AS far as PAlin goes. Well Obama has never run anything. Nothing Ndad, not a ten horse town,

Population means nothing.
The bottomline is she is runnig a multi billion dollar budget and 59,000 employees as DID ALL OF THIS ON HER OWN, No help form the RNC. She is far more qualified than Obama and certainly as qualified as any Govenor. That would indicate the former Governor of NY (Spitzer) would be more qualified to run as President based on population.

I can understand how her "folksy speak" can make her seem like an idiot. But she faced down and won against an incumbent in her own party which rarely happens, Then received and distributed money back to the people from the resources from the state, Something a Liberal would never do.....return money to the people? She faced down the Big Oil and got this money from them. She suspended all taxes on gasoline for the people. No she is more than qualified than a guy who has pretty nefarious friends and speaks with a gilded tongue who uses EFX on his voice to make the One sound like the SON of the One,
The youth are easily manipulated.And most the Black population is voting based solely on race. most of both groups would not even know who the Sec of State is if asked....

Someone can make great speeches when read off a teleprompter makes them qualified? What has Obama DONE? Really what has he done? Represented ACORN? Community organizer? Well that makes AL Sharpton a great candidate. What has he accomplished? we have no access to any school records or his Thesis, We do not KNOW who Obama is. Except that he probably got an A in public speaking...but couldn't get a security clearance to join the FBI based on his past and recent associations with Bill Ayers,

IM not crazy about Mc Cain but I KNOW Mc Cain. He has more than proved himself. I KNOW Palin's record.I KNOW what she has done, I Know most of those she governs sees her in a favorable light, More than ANY other Governor including Rhode Island.I don;t KNOW Obama. Obama won't even release ANY transcripts from his school!HE has not been vetted by the heavily biased press.

Yeah he speaks (preaches) to the ignorant using emotion rather than experience. God help this country if the trio of Pelosi,Reid, and Obama runs this country without controls.

It's a shame we have no independent press in this country given the Pew Report.

For the lowly sake of pete are not there enough poltitcal garbble pasted all over televisions!..new KB comes out and the lying
"I shall save the U.S. with MY all powerful plan" remains believed!Where ever does one go who needs much escape go to hear about ty3.

I agree Corporations don't pay tax. As long as we live in a Capitalist society they will never pay taxes no matter how much of a tax burden the government puts on them. They will as always pass those down to the consumer. The consumer will choose not to buy at some point but it won't matter because they will be working until JUNE just to pay THEIR taxes. All this money going to a Government!! The Government has proved over and over again it is not a good guardian of that money. Oh and if the rich don't pay taxes it's because they are INVESTING the money in tax exempt bonds and or are using that money to EXPAND their business hiring more employees.

I would love a flat tax of 25%. But that would make people whine that those who make 10 million a year get to keep 7.5 Million....Boo Hoo. But I want a CONSTITUTIONAL amendment against all income taxes and NO deductions. NONE.

The Federal Government should only be involved in protecting and defending the nation, to uphold and legislate from the constitution. Not legislate from the bench. The States should be responsible for the schools.

Obama does not want to redistribute WEALTH. He wants to redistribute INCOME....HUGE difference. Don't fool yourself the upper income bracket is paying 70% of ALL revenue going to Washington already. That's not fair in a free society. All should equally pay a percentage regardless of what they earn.

The Estate tax should be a crime. A farmer leaves 1 million worth of land to his son who is forced to sell the land to pay death taxes. on top of the taxes that have already been paid over the years on the land. That's socialism at it's best. You don't want to see the worst...but you may.

Which is the better plan:

Candidate A:
Opposed extending 2003 Bush tax cut law through 2010. Supports eliminating marriage penalty and extending child tax credit. Proposes a "making work pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. Proposes eliminating income taxes for seniors making less than $50,000 per year and eliminating all capital gains taxes on start-ups and small businesses. Says he would reform the child and dependent care tax credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit for child care expenses. Favors tax cuts for middle-class workers and tax increases for top earners. Says he would restore the top two income tax rates to their pre-2001 levels of 36 percent and 39.6 percent. (Currently, they're 33 percent and 35 percent.) Says he would maintain the estate tax but would freeze the estate tax exemption amount at $3.5 million. Proposes to create an "American opportunity tax credit," which the Obama campaign describes as "a fully refundable credit" that "will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans and would cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university."

Candidate B:
Voted against 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cut laws, but later voted in favor of extending tax cuts through 2010. Says he would keep the current rates on dividends and capital gains, and maintain the current income and investment tax rates. Says he opposes a proposal supporters call the "Fair Tax," which would repeal income taxes and other taxes and abolish the Internal Revenue, but has previously said he would sign it into law as president. Says he would double the child deduction from $3,500 to $7,000 and permanently repeal the alternative minimum tax. Says he would reduce the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent. Advocates raising the exemption from taxation on estates up to $10 million while cutting the tax rate to 15 percent. Proposes that a three-fifths majority vote in Congress be required to raise taxes. Says he would permit corporations to immediately deduct the cost of equipment investment. Would prohibit new cellular telephone taxes and ban Internet taxes. Wants to establish a permanent tax credit equal to 10 percent of wages spent on research and development.

Candidate A: is the ONE, at least according to Ophra Winfrey anyway. And Candidate B: is John McCain of course.

Here is an example of an ethnic "minority" talking about the ONE.

"I think Obama is good at telling the American people what they want to hear but I have a feeling after the election there will be a different story. I get it and understand what it is like but that is why we live in a free country and are allowed to make our own decisions. I don't want the Government running my life! We all have the same opportunities, in fact, minorities have more opportunities. My mother was on welfare, I grew up in the inner city, moved out on my own when I was 17 and supported myself through college. I worked hard and now as a single person I am being punished because I am considered rich by Obama standards. I am by no means rich but upper middle class and what is wrong with that? Spreading the weath by giving those who have the "same opportunities" tax breaks?? Tell me what is my incentive if I am penalized for working harder and making more money when I see money handed out to those who went a different direction in life than I did? You think the economy is hurting now. When you take away, people spend less. When you raise taxes on property sales, the real estate market slows down. When you force employers to pay for insurance, they pay less. How about a 20% tax across the board, wouldn't that make more sense? I just want to be treated like everyone else and given the same benefits but that won't happen either so I will only hope for the best and not the worst for the next four years."

If you think the last 8 years under Bush were bad, wait and see what happens if THE ONE gets elected. With the Dems in charge of the presidency and both houses under Pelosi and Reed and with the possibility of a veto proof majority with no override you will be able to see firsthand the definition of: "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" come to pass before your very eyes. God forbid... And God forbid if I didn't speak up and tell everyone within ears reach of the dire consequences before it happens - if it (God forbid) does happen.

Kingfrog hit the nail on the head when he said "we don't KNOW who THE ONE really is. He's a smooth talker no doubt, but that's when he's in front of a teleprompter reading lines written by someone else i.e. his script writers. Get him one on one with no cheat sheets and the guy stutters, hems and haws, and barely can put two words together without the interjection of uh.. oh.... um, after every other word or so. He came out of nowhere, rose to political power with the help of his shady character friends, got elected as a State Senator of Illinois, and who, for the most part, was a "part-time" politician who never accomplished much at all during his 8 years in the Illinois Senate. For example, he never brought forth any legislation of real worth and when voting on the Senate floor voted 129 times as "present", which essentially is a NO vote. Many of the bills where he voted "present" were bi-partisan in nature and is a fine example of his "unwillingness" to cross party lines to get things done. Unlike McCain who has done so (crossed party lines) ever since being elected to the U.S. Senate - in 1986.

The ONE then got elected as a U.S. Senator where he spent less than 175 days (and authoring ZERO legislation) before making his run for the presidency.

Thanks but NO thanks. I'll stick with the tried and true John McCain who has put his "Country" first instead of 'himself' over the course of his illustrious and noble lifetime in service to his Country. He ain't perfect (McCain that is ) = OTOH, Dems seem ready to anoint "his majesty" as a purported King or messiah without even knowing who this supposed King really is. And the MAIN reason they don't know who he really is, is because the liberal MSM has not vetted him properly to the public as they should have and instead have fallen for him lock, stock, and barrel while leaving their 'minds' out of the whole "rational" process, of just who this turkey really is and what he will "really" do if elected.

Go chew on that for a while guys and gals and I beg of you not to follow this piped piper off the precipice he is trying to lead you off of - in the name of change. The kind of "change" he is heralding, (as we now know) is nothing short of Socialism at its worst, with Marxism as its center piece and nipping at the heels of his socialistic agenda. Which, by the way, has NEVER worked in ANY of the Countries across the globe that have tried it in the past; nor will it work in the future. THE END.

And so will it be the "end" of America as we now know it in my opinion = i.e. the land of the "free" and the home of the "brave" if the Dem ticket gets into office.

Best,
Mike

PS: I didn't start this political fracas (hmm.. guess who that was?? ) but I'll be darned if I sit idly by and watch Diki make a fool of himself without at least trying to step in and slap some sense into him - and others. [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img]


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 10-29-2008).]

If 'change' is rolling back the distribution of taxes to those under Reagan, what Republican can fairly criticize that?

Either you are calling Reagan a 'spread the wealth' socialist, or you are just out for yourselves.

The precipice has already been leaped over, by the 'tax cut AND spend' Republicans, who have had a blank check written for them by the guy you Republicans all voted for TWICE. But hey! Third time's the charm, eh?

We need someone that can claw his way BACK to where things USED to be before Washington as a whole decided that the way to make the country wealthy was to make rich people even richer. Ship the jobs overseas, and open our markets (with little reciprocity) to the Chinese, who must be laughing their heads off at us , and the only 'trickle down' appears to be bladder drip... The biggest financial crisis in nearly 100 years has come under the watch of the Republicans, largely as a result of their 'deregulation' fever. But let's keep doing it some more. It couldn't POSSIBLY hurt, could it?

The standard definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. Anyone that thinks putting someone in power that over 90% of the time agreed with the guy that got us in this mess will result in a complete turn around needs therapy.

Of course, if you are one of the ones that profited from the corruption and incompetence that created the whole housing 'bubble' in the first place, well, good for you..! And of course, far be it for you to have any responsibility to help clear up the mess

I simply remind you... who's the last President that steered this country to a budget SURPLUS? Yep.. Slick Willy, the Communist (OK, Socialist, OK, Democrat - what's the difference, anyway )

If you want to remain friends as usual, do not discuss politics or religion....and don't get me wrong by posting this.

I choose #2

Why becasue when you cut taxes income to the Government grows. Thats a fact proven over and over again. How does that happen? well The corporation KEEPS the money to grow and hire more people who inturn PAY INTO the Government rather than TAKE FROM the government

BTW Mc Cain voted AGINST the tax cuts ONLY because there were NO SPENDING CUTS to offset them.(Of course they don't tell you THAT PART) The press and Obama wants you to think Mc Cain was against tax cutss. He is against SPENDING. You cannot cut taxes and raise spending. I would have voted against a tax cut that did not include spending cuts too. You cannot have it BOTh ways. Thats what I like about Mc Cain he is reasonable.

Nationalize Medical insrance and wait 3 months for an MRI. My wife gets them in a DAY if the doctor orders one. Canadians flock to Detroit and the US for immediate medical care. People will make TWO car payments totalling $800 a month and claim they cannot afford medical insurance...Their priporties are messsed up/Health care is no a right. Never was. Ask a smoker or an obese person if they should pay MORE for healthcare. Bet they say no because no one wants to take personal responsibility for themselves.

They want to Government to do it all. I hear Cuba is anice place to live.....at least Michael Moore thinks so.


Oh and as far as Clinton goes, the country was ALREADY cmoing out of recession and MOST of that growth came in his second term when the Repulicans had the house and Senate. He totally ignored 3 attacks on the country and 9-11 was planned under his nose right here in this country while he was getting BJs from interns in the White House....YEah lets go back there.....

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-29-2008).]

Friends.... here....?

You are talking about the forum that certain members feel free to call other members 'arrogant frustrated old man' or other personal insults, because they lack the education to argue and discuss things in a civilized manner?

I know who are 'friends' here. And I know who aren't...