My first ones came in today. The box is marked GW8L (Latin Version). This means that all the world styles from Latin American Countries and sounds are provided in addition to all the western, Latin and other world styles. There are 130 "basic styles" and 100 "unique for the region styles". In Europe, the model they sell has 100 middle eastern styles and sounds, in the USA we get all the Latin American styles and sounds.
The polyphony of this board is 128 note and there is 256MB(16-bit linear equivalent) of wave rom. There are 128 Preset Performance memory location, 128 User Performance locations, 100 favorite performances and 100 favorite tone user areas.
There are 4 Intros, 4 main style variations, 4 fill ins and 4 endings for each style.
There is a 16 track sequencer.
The USB Memory player can play 999 songs or contain 999 playlists including smf, mp3, wave and aiff files.
There is a dedicated music minus one button for turning off the melody track of a midi file song or it is used to center cancel a live audio song you play. I tried it out and it works quite well in both uses.
You can change sounds by catagory or by numeric keypad input.
There is a D-Beam controller with two assignable buttons and 1 solo synth button.
There are two dedicated octave up and down buttons, transpose button, melody intelligence, key scale, dual, split, and effects buttons.
The sounds are just what I expected. Right from the Fantom library but with the addition of so many more than the previous GW7 model had. All the extra world sounds are from the SRJV Latin board which includes all sounds dedicated for Latin musicians.
The styles in the basic library include very good Pop, Dance, Funk, Latin, Jazz, etc. and there is a single one touch button for providing an appropriate voice for that style. For those needing authentic Latin American styles, this machine is a must!
Years ago, Generalmusic came out with a WK6Latino keyboard which I sold a lot of and it had all the authentic styles and sounds as well. But, this board sold for over $2,000.00. This new Roland sells for $895.00 and it's a bargan.
Next, I loaded up a USB 2GB thumb drive with MP3s, Standard Midi Files, Wave Files and tried playing them. EASY! and the drive just loads into the front with a cover which can be locked or not depending on if you are nervous it might get stolen at a Gig.
The display is large and there is no way I would have guessed this keyboard could be as inexpensive as it is.
There is also a stereo mini plug in at the back for external devices and you can also choose to have the center cancel feature be on or off for your external players.
In keeping with Rolands existing arranger line of E series products, there are similar operating system features and although this is not a new technology but rather a whole lot of Roland products all put so nicely into one 13lb. package. There are no internal speakers but for most, this is not a problem because of how good all the studio monitors and amps are today.
In conclusion, I've been waiting for something from Roland that I can feel good about showing customers that doesn't have a comma in it's price and this is it.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Just to add a few more notes.....
Yes, these sounds are from Roland's Fantom for sure... I just tried out the acoustic pianos and there are: rich grand, 88 concert piano, ultimate grand, x pure grand, so true..., concert piano, warm piano, concert grand, hall concert, etc. etc. These are the same sounds as what is in the fantom factory rom sound banks. I'm thrilled. I just compared these few first pianos to an E50, or E60 and these are Rolands best! They don't make the E sound nearly as good.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

George, I am sure the sounds are the same as the Sonic Cell and Juno G...

George, when you get time..compare the sounds to the Fantom, or Sonic Cell....see if they are the same quality..

I know when I compared the sounds from the E-60 to the G70...many were very similar..but others did not have the same richness, some even seemed to lack some harmonics compared to the G70...Some difference may be the output conversion..

Just curious...If it had a lyric read, I would have gave you my order already..

I still may give you my order..

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 10-16-2008).]

I've had one a few days now... (on loan)

There are some really good points, and then there are some really bad points But at $895, some of the bad points are less deal-breakers than they might be.

Pianos... great. But except for the UltimatGrand, a little metallic at higher velocities. But I have a feeling that most Yamaha piano fans would like them... sparkly and mix-cutting, but with more depth to the sound, IMO. UltimatGrand is based on my G70 piano sound, and for me is the better balanced one.. 32 piano sounds altogether (plus some canvas stuff in the GS bank), but you're off your rocker using anything but the main ones!

E.Pianos... very great! something for everyone. Chunky Rhodes (3-ways), in everything from old 68 style to newer Dyno-My-Piano crisp. Pretty decent Wurli, a bit better than my G70's, actually. Lots of FM type and layers. Again, there's a preset for just about anything you want. Clavs, good, harpsichords, good (but I could do with more variation).

Now some bad news. Organs... terrible! There are a couple of things working against these. Firstly is the samples themselves. Most are derived from older Roland products, back in the day when there was no Leslie sim as part of the Canvas palette. So most of them have some Leslie sampled into them, usually slow. The problem now comes when these already Leslied organs are run through the GW's effects, which DO have a Leslie sim in them... A slow Leslie, out of sync with each note, being run through a fast Leslie Yuck!

So I went through ALL the organs, and yes, there are a few without any sampled Leslie. But those, the factory MFX Leslie is set up pretty poorly. You CAN edit it and save a User Tone, so all is not lost, and you can set a fixed velocity for the part, so you don't get velocity sensitive organ (so wrong!). You'll need an expression pedal, though. There are some boneheaded voicing decisions here (more on this later), including slathering chorus onto an organ sound after it has already gone through the Leslie sim The default parameter settings for both Leslie sims (one regular, one VK - a bit more mellow) are just terrible. You can do a LOT better editing these.

By the way, on the Latin GW, some of the better B3's are in the 'World' category. Some of them have slow Leslie and change to fast when the mod wheel is raised, but this has little practical use, as the paddle wheel is sprung, and can't stay on fast. Some of them have extra drawbars that get added when you push the lever... same issues there, IMO.

To be honest, OK, I did, with quite some trouble, manage to edit a few to usability, but I had to throw away just about ALL the factory programming, audition them carefully to find the few that DIDN'T already have a Leslie sampled into the sound, and completely reprogram the Leslie sim so it wasn't plain horrible (lessening the 'spread' value helped a lot). This area of the sound just goes to illustrate how piecemeal some of the soundset is. Some of it goes back to Canvas days, some SRX, some Fantom, some Sonic Cell. But there's little consistency in the programming, and some obvious clunkers due to CC's being needed to control the sound that the GW just can't provide, live.

So, a push... With work, it's usable, but nothing to write home about...

Guitars... OK, first, I'm going to talk about something else. It baffles me just how inconsistent the effects programming is on MOST of the GW sounds. One guitar will be nearly bone dry, and one will be drenched in reverb, another will have a tiny room, another some timed echos, but not much of it is related to the sound. For me, personally, I would have to go through all my favorites, load them into a Performance, and save those as 'Favorites'. It's just not what I'd call a very 'consistent' sound set. Pull one sound in from the Factory ROM, and you are likely to have to dive for the volume control or effects knobs in a hurry.

Now, for someone using a Sonic Cell in a WS environment, where everything is set up in advance and the controller likely DOES have enough knobs and levers to control the voice, this should be no problem. But in something this preset, it's a hassle no doubt.

OK back to guitars. Acoustics, very good, especially with a whole extra bunch in the "world' section, including a gorgeous 12 string, and the most playable mandolin I have ever used. Straight notes on the keys, raise the lever, you have a nice tremolo. With practice, it's uncanny! Good resonator dobro, too...

Electrics cover all the basses ( ) The MFX distortion helps a lot here, but again, you have to watch out for volumes. Not a very consistent batch. Quite a few with 'dive bomb' down bend ranges, but that CAN be defeated in a Performance.

Basses cover all the basses In fact, a lot better than my G70. Fat finger basses are MUCH better (I simply HAVE to break down and buy SRX-07 for better basses one day!), acoustics are good. Pick basses good (although, at times I almost felt like there was TOO much lows, but that's fixable). Fretless, synth basses, all good, all usable, all with room shaking bottom (that's much improved over the G70).

Strings... Good violin and cello (better than my G70) but darn near dry. I just can't stop thinking 'what drugs were they on at the voicing team?' Other than that, your pretty much set here. Marcato, staccato, pizzicato, big ensemble, small ensemble, Woodwind layers, big layered tutti stuff. I could probably do a decent classical score with some work... My favorite sound is to layer a medium string section with 1260 Vn+Va+Ct. - smooth, but with a bit of bite and detail to the line.

Woodwinds... not great, IMO. Very little choice (but some better flutes in the "World' section, including a great SingingFlute for the Tull and Focus fans!). Enough to get by, but not stellar.

Brass, not great again. I miss my SFZ Brass from the G70. Again there's a bunch more in the World section, but it's heavily weighted to those awful Latin horns with a vibrato that would kill even Burt Kaempfurt! There's SOME good stuff there, but on the whole, it's weak, for a Roland (my G70 is better). Strangely, after the Canvas era great french horns, they're gone, and there's not much french horn variety.

Saxes, again pretty weak, IMO. Nothing close to my G70. (I got to keep saying to myself 'but it's $895!). Again, most of the best ones are in the World expansion section. Best thing to do with these is layer them with a brass sound and get a good section sound!

OK, synths... nothing but thumbs up here... Everything you could ever want, and then some! Roland, doing what they do best! Some great arp stuff, but not tempo synced (at least not to the arranger - maybe SMF?).

OK, drums... much improved over the Canvas, but at a cost. Sorry, guys, but the days of GS are GONE You'll have to do some editing to get older SMF's to work with these. Foot closed HH is now half open (has been for a while, though), some toms are flams, some are velocity switched flams, the handclap on D# is now a 'ghost' snare note/roll. Nothing I haven't had to deal with on my G70's V-Drum kits, but be aware when plugging in older SMF's...

Great selection of different kits, lots of vel-switching, great dynamics. Then there are some great menu kits, every snare, every hi-hat, every tom, etc.. But still no USER KIT. So using these in a style means picking one kit and sticking to it. Which is a shame because... in the World section there are some GREAT latin kits and menu kits of just about everything you might need, including (drum roll please...) finally a back and forth tambourine, which GS guys have been waiting for a LONG time! The latin stuff is GREAT (as it should be!) But in Style mode, good old Roland STILL only give you ONE drum track. So if you want those latin percussions, you have to use a Latin kit that has some of them (there are too many to even fit in one kit!).

This is one area where the Sonic Cell roots show badly. As an SMF module, this thing shines. You can have multiple kits. no problem. But style mode is more restrictive. Roland better give us either multiple drum tracks, or User kits, or both, pretty soon!

But, overall, thumbs up to the GW drums, and the styles definitely show them to their best. Great dynamics, detail, punch, in your face!

Well... that's the good news... mostly.

Next up is the operational aspects.

OK... I'm back... I went to the smallest room, and said to myself 'but it's only $895!' over and over again till I was finished. I'm not sure how much it helped

Here's where I have a problem... The styles are completely UNEDITABLE! You can turn a Part off, or change it's volume... THAT'S IT! No pan, no changing a sound, no changing effects, no NOTHING! The included software is a strictly 'SMF to style' conversion program, there's no way to get the style out of the machine (AFAIK) and edit it outboard. I wanted to try a few in my G70, but no go!

Here's where it REALLY hurts. There's an MFX insert effect just for the style. But you can't edit it, assign it, unassign it, anything. It makes for GREAT rock rhythm guitar parts, but they are TOO LOUD! And guess what happens when you turn them down... Yep, it turns down the sound going INTO the distortion, not the final output of the amp sim. And you have to dial the part volume down to about 3 or 4 (out of 127 ) before there's hardly any volume drop!

So.... You'd better LOVE the styles! Because short of muting parts, there's not a damn thing you can do to them! This thing is CRYING out for a style editor, the one thing Roland got completely RIGHT on the E and G-series

Talking about muting parts... forget turning the ACC off and on in a hurry. Part muting is done with individual mute buttons done with the wheel and navigation buttons. Muting ONE part might be doable live, but not the whole lot (and still leave D&B going)

{But it's only $895! )

OK, the styles section... Something is different... The fills don't transition as smoothly as the E and G-series. Notes get re-triggered when you push the fill button sometimes. Nothing out of time, just not as smooth as the G70, etc.. In fact, it reminds me a bit of the Korg problem, in a way... No idea why, but this better NOT trickle UP to newer high end arrangers...

Three fewer fills than the E/G's, but still four Intros, endings and Variations.. Tap tempo is very accurate. Buttons are in a good place except for the button that turns off bass and ACC but leaves the drums going. It is RIGHT next to the D-Beam, and accidentally triggers whatever that is programmed for most times you touch it.

Overall, I'm impressed by many of the styles, baffled by some of the mix choices, though (more drugs in Roland's style dept., I think!), but overall, for the price, pretty impressed. I've never had a cheap arranger, tried a few. Compared to an S500 (roughly the same price) this thing rocks! Full sounding, punchy, very live sounding, MUCH better keybed and display, light as a feather but solidly built (why can't Yamaha manage this? ).

BUT..... this thing is not a tweaker's dream come true. Without style EDITING software, you either love the styles, or you can't use them. Same for SMF's. You'd better have something like Cubase to re-mix and voice your SMF's to get the best out of this (but what new thing DOESN'T need this anyway?! I had to do it for my G70, but at least there, the tools exist to easily revoice styles and SMF's)

Overall, for me, it's a push... I would love one as a 'backpacker' keyboard, light enough to go anywhere (but no speakers, damnit!), sounds are strong enough to not make me cringe much of the time (can't say that for much else in this range), and there are a bunch of sounds in here I would DIE to have in my G70. OTOH, my G has some essentials I can't do without (the B3, for instance) and everything I need to tweak until satisfied. OTOH, it's $2500 MORE than the GW!

I am tempted, I must admit. There are times I want to walk around with the lightest thing I can carry, and do 75% of what my full rig can do, on just a little toss around backup keyboard. I can record my G70 to audio, and use the GW to play IT'S great sound (plus add my K2500 and Triton for their best sounds, too) on a gig, or LH bass and just use the great drum patterns.

But as a primary arranger, I would feel limited, and would probably go for something else. Neither flesh nor fowl, neither straight ahead arranger nor loopstation WS, it straddles both. How successfully, you try for yourself. For me, this seems like a great 'go out and jam, no pressure' type of keyboard, that could cover as a decent backup for the G70 for gigs where weight or size are an important factor. I took it out last night to jam with a great guitarist (Chris Clifton - used to be with James Taylor and many others) and his band, and they loved it! (except the organs. I think I have some better presets now). Not too shabby...

But it's only $895!

My friend tried to get it back today... I told him I needed to do more work on it! That's probably a sign

Thanks George an Diki...

it is a very good thing getting unbiased reviews of gear from knowledgeable players.

Interesting waveform data specs... (all converted to 16bit linear)

Sonic Cell... 128MB
GW-8......... 256MB (must be the World area)
E60............ 512MB

Although the GW-8 has twice the polyphony of the E60, it has half the waveform data...

Don't despair, Donny

Diki,

Roland E-60 ROM size is 64 Mb (Megabit-s) not MB (Megabyte-s) as you wrote. So it is half the size of Sonic Cell, and quarter of GW-8 ROM.

Roland G-70 have 192 MB, and E-80 have 128 MB of wave ROM.

[This message has been edited by kalimero (edited 10-17-2008).]

Great reviews George and Diki! Nice and indepth too. Diki.., you touched upon something that I raised issue with before the unit started to ship.., and that was lack of style editing (outside of track mute, and volume changes). I had gone through the manual several times as well and I too was very shocked to not see that you couldn't revoice, adjust MFX, or even pan.

When we talked in the past regarding style creation on the GW-8 and using the software.., I was hopeful that you could at least take a style from the GW and use the software to tweek that, but it doesn't appear so.

I would say the focus on this unit was cleary the Fantom/SonicCell sound set and the world sounds/styles and NOT for user tweeks. It's odd though as they promote it as a "performers keyboard", but it seems someone forgot to tell the design team that. A performers keyboard wouldn't be so limited in the style editing. I could understand some seq limitations, but this is an arranger and users need to be able to get in there and tweek those styles (either internally or via included software)

One of the reasons I raised issue about this limited editing is that Yamaha's new S550 will allow you to tweek the styles now (internally). You can start from scratch or edit an existing one. However, the S550 lacks voice parameter editing such as (ADSR) and no filter adjustments either, and although the poly is less than 128 it's twice that of the typical Yamaha low end arranger.

IMO I think there's a feature or two Roland probably could have left off the GW-8 and replaced them with style editing. It doesn't make sense to me to make an arranger keyboard, market it as a performers keyboard, then cripple the style editing on the unit.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 10-17-2008).]

What's the key action like? Is it really cheapo? Is it the same keybed found on other Roland models such as the Juno-G or Juno-D?

Lack of on-board style editing is a serious omission.

I was thinking about getting one of these as an inexpensive way to add the "Roland" sound/styles to my home rig, especially the organ sounds(think VK), which Roland usually does very well, and the Roland styles, which were never satisfying when converted to Yamaha, but I think I'll pass.

Disappointing.

Still, I will try out to be sure.

Great concept, and a great price, but seems to be a poor implementation.


Ian

Diki quote "So.... You'd better LOVE the styles! Because short of muting parts, there's not a damn thing you can do to them! This thing is CRYING out for a style editor, the one thing Roland got completely RIGHT on the E and G-series "


Come on!!! Roland ships with a style editor..to use with your computer...

The same guys that will not even sequence on the keyboard (only use the more powerful computer software}..are now complaining because Roland did not install the style software on the board...

Just no reason to complain about style edits....few people edit styles on the fly..thus the need to edit on the keyboard..(only the spoiled G70 owners}..

It's better then the S900 keyfeel for sure if thats the case Squeak, less the little pictures under the keys

Actually the little pictures are over the keys on the S900(how quick we forget our old romances)...perfectly placed for those of us who actually do style editing/creating/assembling.

Wouldn't have it any other way...I don't feel the need to impress anyone that my keyboard is pro...some do, I guess...must be an insecurity thingy.

Did you play the GW-8, Donny?

If not, how could you compare?

Ian

Well you know the GW7 is considered the worst key feel for Roland & that was better then the S900!!....so why would we think the Gw8 isn't any better also?, besides just ask Diki

BTW, doesn't Casio units have lil pics under the keys, I thought I saw that in one in Sam's club for $199.00

Sorry, Fran.... better read those reviews again.

GW-8 ships with a playlist editor (for the MP3/WAV/AIFF player and SMF player) and a Style CREATOR software, which is a simple MIDI to Style conversion software. There is NO style editing, you can't even access the ROM styles.. (that's one way to stop them being converted to Yamaha!)

I suppose, if you were extremely dedicated, you could make a MIDI file of the style playing, laboriously record each Intro, ending, variation and fill, in each of the three chord types, edit it in a sequencer, and then use the software to stitch it all back again. Perhaps you MIGHT be able to find the sys-ex codes to control the MFX of the style parts somewhere, and adjust that (nowhere are these codes given, mind you).

Depending on how good a job the MIDI to style conversion software is, you MIGHT be able to get the style to work OK (most, IMO, are not that good)...

But that doesn't make it a Style editor by any means... How many of us would be willing to go through all that just to change one Part sound in a ROM style?

I wouldn't say the GW-7 was the worst key feel for Roland. I think my RS-70 takes the trophy there... Terrible isn't really the word for it. Still..., it was a good bargain though.

I would only imagine Roland used the same keybed from the GW-7 and if not.., it would also make sense to find the same keybed from the Juno-G or Juno-D on the new GW-8...

Watch out Donny..., you said something bad about the S-900

Sorry, got my info from Sweetwater's E60 product page. They state MB categorically. Where did you get the data from?

And sorry, but those E80/G70 comparisons look wrong, too. The E80 has MORE ROM data than the G70, I was informed (it's a newer, more expensive, higher up model)

Oh My! Ian won't be able to sleep tonight now

So...you haven't actually tried it.

I thought so.

Another virtual tester we don't need.

For a guy that uses mostly SMF (I heard your new CD was mostly SMF) a nice little Casio might be the way to go for your needs.

The E-60 must be just for show...bigger keyboard....something like having a bigger car...impress your friends.

Enjoy whatever you play, my friend...as long as you're having fun and making a few bucks, what's the difference.


Ian

Getting a little hot in here.... take a breather, guys...

My friend's GW-8 is still sitting here in front of me. Key feel is FAR better than any PSR I have ever played. Note length is a bit shorter than the G70, but most are... I have played the FSX keybed on the MotifXS6, and in all fairness, there's not a whole lot of difference. The GW is crisp, decent dynamics, and feels MUCH more like the keyboard from a $3500 T3 than a $1600 S900.

But it only cost $895

BTW, sorry to burst your SMF bubble, Ian, but it takes FAR more skill to play over an SMF of just bass and drums, and do everything else yourself, than to sit there with your LH glued to inputting simple chords and playing a basic melody....

There isn't a ha'penny of difference between SMF's and styles. What matters is what YOU actually play. Just because YOU perhaps equate using SMF's to sitting there and doing less than you would on arranger mode doesn't mean that MOST people necessarily do it that way!

Personally, I find myself able to actually PLAY much more in SMF mode than I do in style mode. But that's just me

Now that Markers allow for easy rearranging of SMF's, a lot of arranger mode's advantages have dropped by the wayside, and being able to return to being able to play fully two handed, like you USED to do in your live band days (love that shot of you back in the day ) has made me so much happier than sitting there playing dumb chords to a dumb machine

Let's just say that fully 100% of everything you hear on the charts has some form of sequencing done on it. And 0% of style play...

I rest my case

Diki , I read also that the G70 still has more wave data than any other Roland arranger...In fact the G70 has more than 500 more tones than the E-80, and only 4 less drum kits...

I also found it confusing that the E-60 has 512MB...It surly does not have more wave data than the G70...

I haven't got a chance to hear /play an E-80..yet...But I would bet over all..it is not a better sounding instrument than the G70 (wav data wise)...Someday I will get a chance to play an E-80...somewhere..

Number wise..It sures make sense that the E-80 is between the E-60 and G70..spec wise..wav data...

BTW: I got the impression Roland shipped the style converter /edit software...from Sweetwater...too

Besides you can make the styles on a G70 (small investment) and export them to the GW-8..



[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 10-17-2008).]

I don't know, Fran... there's a bunch of stuff in the E80 that's not in the G70, and most of what's in the G70 but NOT in the E80 is legacy Canvas sounds, which used little ROM.

Think TWO more pianos, for starters. Natural and Superior. Both sound as detailed as the G70's GrandX, which was reported to be 64MB alone...

You can download the Style Converter software for free from Roland... I did, to see if there's a manual. There's only the sketchiest of a Quick Start pdf, that shows how distressingly bare bones the software is...

There is no header editing of any kind. You merely import SMF's for each section of the style, tell it how long each Division is, and it stitches them together for you. Bare bones indeed...

You can't edit the MFX section on a G70 and import.

Plus, the GW-8's soundset is TOTALLY different from the G70. Putting the right MSB, LSB, PC#'s in the style is probably going to have to be done in the Style Creator section, again, for each division separately, rather than the ease of the Makeup Tools...

And it still doesn't address the issue of how complicated, if even at ALL possible it is to get the ROM styles OUT of the GW-8 so you can edit them (my primary complaint).

BTW, when you heard how the G70 had the most ROM of any Roland arranger, it probably WAS it's TOTL back then. Things change, mind you. But websites don't necessarily change their copy to reflect this LOTS of websites still calling the T2 Yamaha's latest TOTL arranger...

Geez... that's bare bones alright. It's pretty disappointing in my opinion. How can you market it as a performers keyboard, then cripple the style section like that. My question is this..., what do you think would get used more.., the center cancel feature or basic style editing (such as revoice, panning, MFX changes ect)..??? One I see as more of a "just for fun feature" than really useful in a performance set up.

At this price point, I really don't see it as a 'performer's' arranger. Most performers can afford something more full featured.

There's a LOT of karaoke wannabe's, 'home' one finger players, and kids that are likely to want the center cancel more than a detailed editing kit, mind you...

I think I am starting to look at this as a candidate for emergency backup for a REAL arranger, a sling in the back of the car just in case you get into a jamming situation toy (if it got stolen, It wouldn't be the end of the world), and a MIDI module with great percussion and Sonic Cell (I wish it didn't abbreviate to the same as the Sound Canvas!) sounds for only a hundred dollars more than a Sonic Cell itself.

In a soft bag, I could bicycle around with this!

But expecting the full monty at this price point (but it's only $895! ) just seems a bit wishful. What it DOES do, it does pretty well, it's keybed is the equal of Yamaha arrangers FAR more expensive, so at least it doesn't FEEL like a toy, even if it cost barely more than one!

Before you slam it, try it... I wasn't expecting much. I found far more than I bargained for.

Wouln't you need 76 keys Diki...61 are too restricting for you, aren't they?

Of course you adapt, I'm sure.

Ian

I would really like to try this keyboard, if I can find one. Roland was always pretty weak on latin styles, maybe this is the one that makes up for all the previous models.

How does the styles compare to Ketron latin styles?

Ian please tell us whats wrong with SMF's vs Styles which are also SMF....?
And while your at it I hope your not putting down musicians that create & record, multitrack SMF's, gig with them, etc ....because most of the ones that I know have chops that you only dream of my misguided friend.Maybe I haven't touched a Gw8 but I will very very soon....but in the same thought I haven't heard any of YOUR work either except for a long while ago, or if your a so called yamaha Demonstrator you should at least have a video of your demo work for us all to see?.....I really enjoy Michele Voncken, & Peter Baartman's, but I'm sure your are much better right?....so until that time enjoy your little delusional Yamaha Mr know it all world it doesnt impress me at all. I dont even know why I'm pissin' with you here its getting real boring...I have music to play.
& hurry with one of you rediculous replies so we can end this quickly.BTw, Hmmmmm? Ian do you sing too?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-17-2008).]

Yeah.., I can see the kiddies wanting the center cancel feature. Roland however isn't marketing this thing to the kiddies though. In all honesty Diki.., I don't think it's asking much for a $895 arranger to record a user style. Yamaha's lowest model that lets you record a user style costs $795. Not too long ago a $499 Yamaha could do it.

This thing costs nearly $900 too. You can get a budget workstation for close to that price, and get more indepth voice editing, and full sequencing with great editing... We see it differently I guess. IMO a board that runs nearly 900 smackers should be able to record or at least edit a style beyond what the GW-8 does internally.

I'm on the fence with this unit really. It's up in the air at the moment. What would I really be missing in terms of the sounds? It has a Fantom/SonicCell sound engine. Well.., I got a Fantom already.

I don't know.., sadly I'll never be able to play one anywhere near where live.

Diki...., can you post some examples of the Latin styles? I'd really like to hear a few of these.

Now thats the best idea I've read in this whole thread so far....lets your ears decide.

I'd love to hear them too. Roland hasn't always been praised for their latin styles. Now they have an arranger that's dedicated for this style of music specifically. I want to hear if they nailed it or not.

We couldn't tell by any official demos as Roland posted that clown on their website playing some latin music-which we all clearly saw as a joke.

I have nothing against people who actually PLAY over SMF.

Singing over commercial SMF is simply Karaoke.

My work is posted on several forums...you are a member of at least one.

Now...back to the incredible T3.

Too bad about the GW8's lack of style editing/creating...it would have been a bit of fun, but I'm going to have to pass.

You getting one?

Ian

GW8 is not on my want list anymore but then again at that price what did you expect?.....not enough features for me to gig....good backup for an emergency gig though but nothing serious.
Please provide a link to your songs or do you have a website link also?

You like, eh?

You bet I do, Steve.

The SA Progressive Rock Organ is my current love...snarly, gritty, spitty, and pure joy to play....think ELP or Jon Lord.

The SA2 Breathy Sax is still my all time favorite.

Ian

Ian what does this have to do with the Topic Title? ....

gotta run to go see MAX PAYNE ;(

I don't know Donny...perhaps I was responding to Steve?

Picky picky.

Ian

That's it Ian hit the weak when their vulnerable....trying to talk poor Steve into a T3 when he knows all too well the 76 key Pax2 is a wonderful Pro arranger....
how shameless

here are some values:

GW7: 32 Mb
GW8: 256 MB = 32 Mb
SonicCell: 128 Mb
E60: 512 MB = 64 Mb
E80: 1024 MB = 128 Mb
and if I remember correctly, Pa50: 32 Mb.

I dont know about G70, but could be 192 Mb indeed.

Anyway, these values are important, but they dont say much about the quality of samples though.
They are 16 bit lienar equivalent, so the compression or the samples in the instrument's actual memory is a very/more important issue.

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 10-17-2008).]

I think you have these the wrong way around...

MB is the abbreviation for Megabyte
Mb is the abbreviation for Megabit

You can see how confusing it all can get.

I'd STILL like to hear where anyone got these 'definitive' figures....

And sorry, guys, but my friend got his back (and is returning it to the store). So, no demos, yet....

well, the confusion is not mine!
indeed, some websites would list as MB, some as Mb; as far as i know, the correct, or at least the most common term is MEGABYTE, when reffering to storage capacity.
anyway, it is clear for me that the E60 is not 512 Mb, while the previous keyboard i had, korg pa50 is only 32 Mb; rather, they want to say 512 MB/8= 64 Mb, which I can take.
also, GW8 no way it is 8 times more PCM Wave ROM than GW7...

see it for yourself: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/E60/print/
http://www.zzounds.com/item--KORPA50
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLGW8
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLGW7
(just roll down to the technical specifications)

there is a great deal of confusion, solely because of the notation. MB or Mb? i believe roland took advantage of this, by saying the biggest value (512), add MB (not Mb) and doing the marketing for it.

as i said, the confusion is not mine!

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 10-18-2008).]

[This message has been edited by adimatis (edited 10-18-2008).]

and this is the last on this (off the) topic:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=657&ParentId=83#
(go to the "specs" tab, just bellow the image, wave memory)

and compare to this: http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=968&ParentId=83
(the same)

i think we all agree GW8 does not have 8 times larger wave memory than GW7. the sounds i am sure are not 8 times better.
MB vs. Mb isn't really the issue, but maybe their marketing thought they can impress by high values.

Hw does it match up with to the PA50. They are selling well here. I though the PA 50 is a real nice board at that price point. Even though it only has he Triton sounds i it which aren't bad.

Is this true what I've been told about the GW-8?

....that you don't have the capabilities to set up a (pre-set) registration/patch that you can call up instantly and it will have the dance style, tempo, and instruments all ready to go.

In other words, if you're playing this live on stage and you want to play the BB Polka, you have to first hit the dance style button (for Polka), then set the tempo, then hit the instrument you want to start out with.

This is what I was told. Is that true of the GW-8?

Lucky

Pa 50 sounds better except for the piano.
GW's keys are better.
PA is floopy disk technology.GW has USB to device and host plus plays wav and mp3.(great for playback).

PA is sound and style editing is second to none.Loads Triton programs (minus extra efx) ofcourse.

Pa 's all styles are RAM (more than 300), Great Sax(better than Triton) and pads, drums and bases with punch and so on.

GW's is so light and compact, looks more like a synth than a arranger.

Gw's LCD, knobs, buttons are more solid.




[This message has been edited by jamman (edited 10-19-2008).]

From page 38 in the manual:

By selecting a preset Performance, you can quickly recall
settings that are appropriate for the song you’re playing.
When you select a preset performance, settings for the
following items will be recalled.
• Keyboard mode
• Upper Tone/Lower Tone settings
• Style settings
• Song settings
• Effects settings
• Transpose
• Octave shift
• D Beam settings
• Keyboard touch
• Chord mode
• Melody Intelligence

There are 128 Preset Performances, 128 User Performances, and 100 Favorite Performances.

Hope this helps!

Michael

Let's not forget
Quote:
The box is marked GW8L (Latin Version)

There are so few great Latin styles with authentic Latin drums and for those who are making a living playing for dancers may be more than happy to pay the price. My guess is if it was used for that reason, and the styles and drum sounds are as I hoped them to be, the unit would pay for itself.

A friend of mine has a Latin sound unit (by who I don’t remember). It’s about 12 years old. The drum sounds are so very Latin, and some of the loops are as real as I have heard. Why they stopped making them is beyond me.

Latin, Latin, Latin

John C.

John, the Generalmusic WK6latino was probably the latin keyboard from 12 years ago. I had sold a few of them but they were very expensive. The styles and sounds were all done very well. The GW8 Latin comes very close to this old Generalmusic model. There are many more styles and sounds in the GW8 but not the "loops" you remember from the WK6Latino. These loops were what made this keyboard stand out. However, the WK8 does the best job i've heard in authentically producing Styles from Mexico and other Latin American countries.

I can also guarantee that you can save performances with all your style, sound, tempo, etc. in the GW-8. I've already done this many times. And besides haveing 100 user performances, you can also save 100 favorite tone setting as well.



------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Hi George, Just called my friend – it is a Carnival (Latin) rack mount made by EMU.

John C.

Michael.....thanks for this info.

Now on my present Roland keyboard, as an example I set up some of my presets thus:

Patch 12 brings up the 6/8 dance style (for Irish Jigs and Tarantella's), the pre-set tempo, the accordion on the right side and the piano on the left.

Patch 2 brings up the Big Band dance style, the pre-set tempo, and Trumpet on the right side and Brass on the left.

And so forth.

So you're saying in current Roland language I can still do the same on the GW-8?

You didn't mention "pre-setting the tempo" in the pre-set performance mode. CAN I pre-set the tempo?

MOST IMPORTANT: everytime I call RolandUS in Calif, they tell me "it's an entry-level" keyboard and that you can't pre-set anything. Anyone have any ideas why they say this?

Lucky

The only way I can see to save a Tempo setting is within the GW-8's Song settings, which can then be saved to a User Performance. The manual only mentions Tap Tempo and nothing else! To be honest, the more I am learning about this keyboard, the less inclined I am to purchase. I think I'll be keeping my GW-7 and get the new Korg M50 when it's out.

Michael

Because they are morons

Do you honestly think that, given how stupid and uninformed the salespersons in the brick and mortar stores are about arrangers, that those same pimply faced slackers that work the phones for Roland are any more educated?

Look, a Performance stores almost the entire state of the arranger... style, tempo, UPR and LWR sounds, split points, chord recognition types, effects, volumes (part and style part), etc., etc..

There are 100 User locations for this.

Plus you can back up to USB, and load another 100 (but I never tested how fast it can do this).

I think Roland should pay US here at SZ and fire the slackers at RolandUS that don't know diddley (at least a GW-8 at cost would be nice!).

If I didn't know better, I would be convinced that RolandUS has a corporate policy of ignoring the arranger division, using it as a dumping ground for every incompetent they have (including most of the demonstrators), and letting it wither on the vine while they try to compete in the WS and loopstation sectors.

Come to think of it, I DON'T know better...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 10-19-2008).]

or just email FRAN

BTW, the 100 or so Favorite Performances come from the pool of Preset and User Performances. They are not an additional set of performances, just an easy way of organizing them...

Oh, and if you are ever talking to anyone at RolandUS, before you say another word, ask them first how much time they have spent actually playing the arranger you are asking about...

That ought to winnow out at least a fair amount of the chaff. Ask to be put through to someone who HAS...

How can someone get hold of a middle eastern GW-8? Are they - or will they be - available here at all?

Diki, sorry for such a late response, but I almost forgot about this thread.

All the information about correct wave-form memory size I got from the official Roland web pages: www.roland.co.uk

Just go to the 'Arranger room' for E-50/60/80 G-70 and 'Synthesizer room' for Sonic Cell, choose the model, and then click on 'Product Spec' link on the right side of the screen.

As for the G-70 ROM size bigger then E-80, Fran correctly noticed much bigger number of voices (about 500, or almost 50% more) is probable reason for the 50% bigger wave-ROM.

adimantis,

It's easy to get confused by reading different sources on the internet. But anyway memory size designation is following:
(b) is abbreviation for bit
(B) is abbreviation for Byte (group of 8 bits)

Roland did made confusion by stating the size of E-series arrangers in Megabits, which is ridiculous, useless and confusing, so only reason for that decision might be the marketing department opinion that 512 look bigger then 128, although they always put the correct size designation. And those sources that misinterpret Mb and MB didn't help much either.

I don't see any value in Roland UK's figures. G70 is expressed in MB, E60 in Mb. I don't think even Roland know exactly what they are talking about. (big surprise!)

According to their figures, the G70 has 192MB wave ROM, and the E60 has 64MB (512Mb).

Strangely, the E60 has THREE great pianos in it, G70 just the one. The GrandX alone in the G70 was reported to be 64MB by itself! I fail to see how, with the E60's nearly similar soundset, that the G70 has three times the ROM. From what I have heard on demos, they certainly sound pretty similar on much stuff...

So, all in all, not much of a big deal. I guess it's kind of like brake horse power... Sure, there's a figure out there, but it doesn't tell you much about how the car DRIVES...

BTW, for anyone still confused about Mb vs. MB, a simple Wiki search should get you straightened out

Well, without entering into discussion about value of Roland UK numbers, all wave-ROM values are correctly designated, megabytes are shown as MB, megabits as Mbit, and gigabits as Gbit.

Of course knowing correct size of wave-ROM doesn't always tell how good the sound is (although the general rule is: bigger memory - better quality), because memory size doesn't tell you how big each sample is, how big is the compression, etc...

As for the E-60, I don't know exactly, but I read somewhere that most of the samples in E-60 are mono, while majority of G-70 samples are stereo, that alone makes noticeable difference in wawe-ROM memory size.

I totally agree with horse power analogy. ;-)

Curious... and where did you get this fact? Have Roland personally contacted you to confirm the data?

You see, to designate the numbers as correct, you HAVE accepted the value of the Roland UK numbers. Myself, I tend to be a bit more skeptical of printed 'specs', who are mostly delivered to us by the marketing divisions, not the design ones

Most of what I have heard on E60's seems to have the same Tone as the G70. Stereo pianos remain stereo pianos, etc..

But, all other things to one side, if Roland HAVE only got 64MB of ROM in the E60, they have done a damn fine job of making it sound great!

Diki,

Well if personal contact is measure for distinguishing facts from fiction, we can consider all technical information about all arranger totally irrelevant and possibly false, but I'm quite sure that's not the case.

My point was the following:

1. Roland UK presented us with the technical specifications (even though they are passed to us through marketing division, they are still technical information therefore given by someone who knows what he is saying), contrary to Roland US where there is no information about wave-ROM size (or at least it's not easy to find it).

2. For somebody who knows what are bits, bytes etc. there is no confusion, and all the information I gave in my first post in this thread (about actual wave ROM sizes) are correct (not because of personal contact, but because of the simple fact that they came from Roland official pages).

3. The confusion started when somebody (obviously not just one but quite number of them) read Mb (megabits) as MB (megabytes).

I cannot give relevant comment to the tone quality between G-70 and E-60 because I haven't got opportunity to hear them in person, but from what I've heard (and read here on the forum) on the net, G-70 sounds better then E-50/60.

Well, the G70 has one or two (depending how you set it up) MFX insert effects units the E60 does not have, and a per-part 3-band parametric EQ that the E60 does not have (and styles edited for it), and in the past Roland have used noticeably lesser quality D/A's on lower line products (as do most manufacturers), so it's still hard to pin down the ROM size as the primary culprit in making the E60 not QUITE as good as a G70.

Who knows? Who cares?

It is STILL the only lightweight, 76 with speakers, and MOST of the good things about the G70. So, it hits a pretty well defined market spot.

Want to play a full 76 decent feeling keyboard, AND have speakers, AND not break your back moving it, AND have a few great sounding pianos?

It's basically the only game in town... 64MB of ROM or not...

Diki,

I agree 100%.

Can the GW-8 also play user styles? Aftermarket or converted styles from EMC Style works?

Also would this board complement the Yamaha s900? I would use it as in addition to the Yamaha. The version I would want would be the latin one.

Thanks, Mario

[This message has been edited by mc (edited 11-13-2008).]

mc,

you live in NY/NJ?
portuguese?
you have Ketron?

would like to chat...

After breakfast Monday Fran & I will be hopefully playing a GW8 in a nearby local store that allegedly has one on the floor confirmed by our sources..hey at least its something new to try out until something ground braking comes to market at years end or beyond hopefully.