i may be wrong,

but i feel yamaha leaves things out on purpose...meaning they probably could have given us Motif XS drums, but why? let us buy the T3 now, and then come out with yet another arranger downs the line,

you see give us a little, we upgrade, they make out $$$

give us a little more (T4), they sell, $$$

i truly believe they , and MOST other makes, Roland, Korg, etc, can give us that TOTAL ARRANGER, but why do it? then they would only sell once to everyone, cuz nobody would have need to upgrade...

that is just obvious! still, i am sure they are not completely able to do THE arranger at this time. there are alot of small issues they should clear before.
but someone wil do it, some day.

Don't agree at all. With the technology and advances we have right now, they could easily come up with new ideas every three years.

Actually, they DO come up with new ideas every three years... trouble is, often those ideas are geared more to marketability than plain practical stuff...

Often, a feature looks WAY better on paper than it does in real life. Sadly, so many buy these things after reading the brochure, rather than having PLAYED the damn things!

I am still unconvinced about those SA2 buttons... If you are in arranger mode, your LH's got WAY more important things to do than press those all the times. Like playing the chords, for instance.

There's a simple test anyone can do. Play a well known melody, and use the arranger's MIDI recorder. Store the file. Copy it. Now strip the solo OUT of the copy. Now play a solo using the SMF backing you just made. Store that. Listen to both versions. Which is the better solo..? Now have a good listen to the solo over the SMF. Try to work out just how many times you used the bend lever, mod wheel, or SA2 buttons EXACTLY when you would have had to have made a chord change..

You would be amazed to find out how many times you probably did it (if the tune had more than the simplest of changes). Scoops, bends, all those non-keyboard performance tricks are usually used by real players at chord boundaries, to transition from one mode to another, or to emphasize the change. As well as all the other places, of course! But just try it... It's scary once you realize just how hampered you start to be when you CAN'T use your LH because it HAS to play the changes...

It's the main reason I stick primarily to SMF's (with Markers) for all but piano songs. I hear the solo in my head, and if I can't play what i WANT to play because my LH is tied up, I get very frustrated!

Tyros3 allows you to assign & activate Super Articulation via footpedal controller.

Scott

I understand that, but I sure haven't seen a single T3 demo where they actually DO...

BTW, are the MC-10 assignments global, or can you have different layouts for different registrations? That's one thing that Roland could improve (FC-7 assignments are global).

They already have..its called a Media Station and you can update it anytime you feel like adding a new sound bank, or additional operating options.

You don't have to wait for a manufacturer, or HAVE to buy a new keyboard.

Thast the beauty of it, you upgrade as you go along...don't like a soundbank? Change it.

Update the sequencer? Just simply upgrade it via software. Same for the arranger engine.

The only limiting thing about the Media Station is one's imagination!!

For example I am going to try and find a Linux programmer to look at some form of a chord sequencer and then install that on the MS.

It really is an OPEN ENDED keyboard.

Dennis

OTOH, most other arrangers don't HAVE to have upgrade packs (how much money you got in VSTi's installed, yet?) just to sound decent...

I like the idea of 'open' arrangers... but only if it is 'closed' at one end! If it is open at both ends, you know how the money is going to flow...

Look the price of a decent VSTi is hundreds of dollars. Get one for organ, one for drums, one for pianos, one for basses, one for synths, one for GM compatibility, and then loops galore for the Qranger, you'll end up doubling the ptice BEFORE it is even comparable to a T3.

My imagination may be limitless, but my pocketbook certainly isn't I haven't spent dollar one on my G70 since the day I bought it. IMO, it STILL sounds better OOTB than the MS...

Diki sorry, but I beg to differ...Jamstix 2 is one of the best drum vst's out there and it costs $99 and the audio samples are very, very good, as are the patterns it creates. I won't go into all its advantages here, it would take too long.

Slayer is a good o'drive/distortion guitar vst it costs about $70.

Broomstick Bass about $85 which also gives good results.

These few are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to quality vst instruments for not a lot of dollars.

And things are getting better and cheaper all the time.

The days of way overpriced vst's is gone in my view, although I do agree that some still charge outrageous prices, (and not worth even half in my opinion) but its like studio gear, if it hasn't got a "name", then it's crap.

Totally ridiculous, but that's the "snobbery" of pro recording engineers and studios. I know, I have had to deal with quite a few.

Dennis

I await to hear the results of some of these VSTi's in a style with great interest.

I guess, that although there ARE some bargains, the thought of putting less than the best in such an expensive arranger strikes me as a strange economy. I thought the idea of the 'open' arranger was so you COULD use the 'best' sounds available?

Jamstix is quite good, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't hold a candle to BFD, or even EZ Drummer, IMO (and many others'). Broomstick Bass is another good one, but even the venerable Trilogy has better and more bass sounds. I guess you have a budget B3, or did you spring for B4mkII?

I'm sorry, but most engineers I know are always looking to do things cheaper, as long as they are as good. But it HAS to have that last part, not 'almost' as good...

The thought of just loading 'adequate' VSTi's hits me wrong. In the studio, on the computer, we use BFD, Ivory, B4, Atmosphere (soon to be Omnisphere) StylusRMX, Trilogy, Groove Agent, and many others. If we COULD find adequate substitutes, trust me, we'd already be using them.

I guess we will just have to be branded 'snobs'

At least that is better than branding those who use less expensive VSTi's as 'cheap bastards', because that would be simply inflammatory, wouldn't it?!

Why don't you try telling everybody that bought T3's that less expensive Casio alternatives exist? Then cover your arse! If there weren't a difference, no-one at all would buy the good stuff...

You bought an MS... (the good stuff, according to you)

Are YOU a 'snob'?