G'day all,

Well, its not too long now until the Media Station arrives..So its getting a bit exciting now.

I have been running some prelim tests on a few VST effects and synths I have, seeing how they might run under the supplied VST host, and no problems, and with Wine now being a very stable Linux platform, I anticipate it will be exactly the same result on the actual keyboard.
I can now get a real idea of how things like Jamstix 2 and Slayer are going to sound, add these to Gigasynth and on top of what is supplied I will probably buy the Rhodes VST, the name escapes me for the moment, but you guys know which one I mean.

Anyhoo, more later...including a full, "under the hood" report + some small demos, which I think I will be able to post to the Lionstracs website, need to check with Dom first.
I will also be able to fully report on the MIDI implementation as well as using it with external modules (Motif XS Rack + Tyros 2).

Cheers
Dennis

I am interested in many things, but particularly reported latency (If Linux can report it). Hardware is getting pretty fast, which equates to responsive playing...

Dom or others have not yet published a really TOTL demo of this supposedly TOTL product, but I think that the MS is the step to the right direction. Maybe in your hands it will show off better.

Waiting for review and demos.

Unless you are highly skilled, I don't think you'll impress anyone with your out of the box demos. The critics who criticize it just don't get that the idea of the MS is not the preprogrammed material, but the programmable material... It is like clay to be molded and painted anyway you want - unlike Korg, Yamaha and the others...

Latency..boh...good questions..
look yourself... http://www.lionstracs.com/store/images/gui2007/B4asio.jpg

next week I will receive this one and then I will make a report and some demos: http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/omnisphere.html
They still waiting my report too...guess why?

I don't know how usefull spectrasonics Omnisphere will be to the generall keyboardplayer...

Fact is that its the most innovating VST in a long time.

I think Omnisphere will have a great future in music production, and even revolutionise part of it.

Good point..
We can say the same..why keyboardplayers buy the M3 or Oasys?
it mean that a lot of keyboardsplayers want have the super synths sounds on gig stage too.

I get orders of another 12 MS X-76 Pro full expanded from the USA, ONLY if Omnisphere is full working.
Then the combination of Omnisphere, NI Komplete synth, Giga streaming and all controlled by the Qranger Sequencer Audio-midi in realtime....Bingo!

Now for sure someone there will reply:
MS sounds crappy....I know the story....

[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 10-03-2008).]

No, really... we get it

Trouble is, do the people that BUY the MS get it as well? Let's assume they do... So where are the demos by USERS who understand this machine that eschews factory content, unlike MotifXS, M3, and FantomG (seeing as how you want to now put it in THEIR company now, after apparently failing to make a connection with arranger players )?

Imagine an XS without the vast library of GOOD loops and arpeggios it comes with, or an M3 or FantomG with the same problem!) Content isn't an arranger exclusive... the best WS's come OOTB with an extensive selection of HIGH quality content to get you started.

Where are the demos by the people that apparently DO understand the 'no OOTB content' part of the spiel? I am simply troubled by what is being touted as an ADVANTAGE to the MS buyer, that it has little you can use OOTB, it's entirely up to you, blah, blah, blah. OK, let's assume there IS someone out there that considers that an advantage... A person of great technical skill and ability....

Why doesn't he post something... anywhere?

In the meantime, of course, players of apparently lower ability are making chart toppers on MotifXS, M3, FantomG, often using barely edited factory patches!

A great painter OF COURSE wants to paint something unique... but he still needs paint. It has been a long time since most painters actually MADE their own paint. They buy it from a store. What they do with it from that point onwards is their unique contribution, but no-one is telling them 'if you want to use OUR canvas, you HAVE to make your own paint!'

Factory content in an arranger or WS is the paint that we use to start out with. We can alter it or replace it to our own needs, but we need some paint to get started. No manufacturer sells a WS with no usable content, and tells it's potential customers 'You are on your own... do it ALL yourself'

But let us assume that maybe there IS someone who would prefer to have a keyboard with little content he can be proud of out of the gate. Where does this mythical creature post this cutting edge music? Because I would SURE like to listen to it...

Hi Chony,

Yes I agree, but its absolutely nothing to do with O.O.T.B. for me and the MS.

It is the fact that for the first time I can build a keyboard , from the ground up, to suit what I want to do.

Its not like the others that allow SOME modification to a locked in sound palette and operational system.
Only changing when a new physical model is released with a commensurate hefty price to pay.
Or having other proprietary systems that do not change in methodology, or evolving so slowly that it takes years to see real improvements.

I would even hazard a guess that at some stage we might even be able to develop a "Chord Sequencer" for the MS...

Who knows, it is OPEN architecture so if a developer can create a program to do it, just add it on!!!

The MS I think will allow total freedom in all aspects of what a keyboard should be.

The fact I can add and subtract software systems at will, or when they get better is a HUGE advantage. Which means "I" get to choose when I want an upgrade, not the manufacturer.

I have spent many, many years chopping and changing keyboards and modules trying to find the "perfect" one. Some came very close, but there was always one or two things missing.

The Media Station, I believe, will be that keyboard because it will be fully customisable to what I need and want. I can vary it at will, change it to suit my mood, or change it to suit particular gigs...The list could go on and on.

And THATS the special thing about the Media Station I reckon.

Yeah I know thats a bit dramatic but in a way thats what the MS is all about. Letting the owner not only create music, but create their own individual tool for that purpose.

I can't wait to get started.

Dennis

No, I'm not putting the MS in the company of the XS and Fantom, because they would not be able to accomplish what the MS can. The MS can play using VSTis, and other sampled instruments. I don't think that even you would disagree that the Steinway Bosendorfer sampled piano, the DFH and BFD sampled drum kits, B4 organs, Garritan sampled Saxes and Qantum sampled Brass are much better than any arranger or workstation could ever hope to be. Now imagine being able to use them on your keyboard!

The reason nobody has made any good samples is not because they are not possible, but because (1) Lionstracs has only recently started to realize that they have to get these keyboards out to professionals who can do this (2) the kind of people who know what they are doing do not lurk on sites like SZ. (No offense, SZ in my favorite keyboard forum, however it is made up of the most untechnical people. There are very few people on SZ who use the keyboards to their full abilities.)

The attraction of the MS to me is unique because all of my styles on the Yamaha and Korg are custom. I create everything myself. Now imagine doing that with the sound and power of the MS! Then again, I do a specialty performance and charge much more than what I've seen others on this forum are charging. If you're charging through the roof, you need something unique that some kid with $3000 can't replicate...

Also there is no one making "chart toppers" as you say, with the regular arranger keyboards... Don't know where you got that from...

Finally !!!! Miden !!!!

A seasoned user,on this board,who has an open mind with the MediaStation.

This board is not for everyone and I really think, that it is not in competition with the "Big three". It will be very interesting to see what an accomplished Musician, will get out of this board..

I, with many others here, look forward to your thoughts and observations.

Way to go Miden....

Ron

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createsongstyles.com

"This board is not for everyone and I really think, that it is not in competition with the "Big three". It will be very interesting to see what an accomplished Musician, will get out of this board"

So suddenly common sense comes into the synthzone forum now people realise that the MS is NOT THE WORLDS BESR ARRANGER but could be a good workstation ? Isnt that what most of discussion has been about all along with the Mediastaion ... It was aimed at the WRONG MARKET.

But what i find puzzling is the idea that it should take an accomplished musician to make the best use of the MS. surely thats the same premise for any instrument ???? What can an accomplished musician get out of this board that they could not get out of any other keyboard ? Accomplished musicians have been making great music since the year dot !!! This is the fallacy of buying newer and fancier keyboards. It wont make the music by itself (apart from the Tyros 3 judging by the hype :-)).

The theme of my message was that, it was very refreshing to read someone ( miden ) who is very hopeful and enthusiastic about the MediaStation, instead of just reading negative comments about it...

I do not know how to describe the MS yet...... it can be or is supposed to be, all these things that are new and exciting but no one here ( on our side of the Pond ) has really worked with it. There has to a lot of users who are quite content with it but the problem is that , we get no indication from users as to what the strengths are or how are the Users using this board?

I just want someone to give it a fair shake and once and for all, tell it as it is or what it can be..


Ron

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createsongstyles.com

[This message has been edited by rphillipchuk (edited 10-03-2008).]

Chony, if you re-read Diki's post, I believe he was talking about WS boards (specifically Motif XS, M3 and the Fantom G) as opposed to arrangers.

The Media Station IS capable of much more than any other workstation, achievable in rather different and remarkable ways. I can see that and I haven't even touched it yet.

It may be a bit simplistic, but feasible nonetheless..... but come up with an idea for a software improvement, find a Linux developer (of which there are millions), throw in bit of testing and refinement, and hey presto! you have just upgraded your keyboard..

There are no corporate boards to approve this or that expenditure or this or that bit of a software upgrade or whether this year's budget does or does not allow for any additions.

No being forced to buy more hardware for an update/enhancement when simple software refinements will do the job.

There is no being forced to live with someone else's idea of what you should have on YOUR keyboard, it goes on and on.

I am looking outside the square on this, and I find I am liking the view.

If others cannot see the potential, as far as I am concerned, and with the greatest respect for their choices, it will be their loss, not mine.

The potential of this keyboard and its "concept" is unlimited and I predict will be exponential in growth.

I believe it's got less to do with musical ABILITY per se, and much more to do with musical CREATIVITY and finally having the chance to develop your own instrument for your own purpose.

Onward we go.

Dennis

PS: By the way Ron, thank-you for your kind words and encouragement. I must admit to being a deeper shade of red when I read them, but it was appreciated though. D

Dennis, I am on your side. I have been using a software based arranger system for many many years and plan to continue with it. For those interest in my system you can search this site to find out more.

My system is reliable and of high quality. In addition, there is no issue concerning latency ... and there never was one even years ago...with smaller and slower computers. My definition of latency is the time it takes from when you hit the key to when you hear the sound. This is a function of your equipment and the sound card drivers, e.g., ASIO. Usually, you can set it to the level that is required for excellent performance and load on the computer system. The computer system is generally far more powerful then anything you would find in a hardware based arranger system.

Now, with MS you will get a much better user interface. I have gotten used to mine but there is no doubt that MS is better.

Sometimes I just have to slow down, take a breath, and start thinking whether what I post has any connection to REALITY. I honestly think that some of you need to do the same...

THEORETICALLY, the sky is the limit with an MS

THEORETICALLY, you can perform music in a way no-one has ever heard before

THEORETICALLY, you could make an entire chart topping album on it

BUT.... I'm simply looking for the PRACTICE of all this.

As I said (thanks, hellboy, for actually READING my post ) M3's, MotifXS's etc., are being used on chart toppers as we speak. Apparently, the guys using them don't seem to have any kind of a problem with certain limitations on their keyboard. No-one is giving up on the piano just because it only has ONE sound! In all fairness, in the studio, most modern production facilities aren't really interested in having all their computer based production tools ported very expensively to a hardware unit. You make records in the studio, you make MUSIC onstage. I'm sorry, but I'll take my FantomX-based G70 piano sound onstage without the slightest feeling of needing some VSTi... it's THAT good (I've used Ivory and some older libraries, the G70 is easily as good, IMO).

Fact is, if I thought I REALLY needed all those VSTi's onstage, I'd already have an MS or a Receptor. But the fact is, what these modern arrangers and WS's can do is MORE than adequate for any live show. They ARE what the pros use (look at any major tour... odds are there's a Motif, Nord, Fantom, something like that in the hands of the guys we look up to, not some MS).

Even THOSE guys are primarily interested in PLAYING, not programming. Give me something that all the meat and potatoes are dead on, sufficient synth power to do most of what you need, and great rhythms and loops are included (so you don't HAVE to roll your own on even the most basic of demos) and turn me loose onstage... I'll be gigging while you are still locked in your basement, trying to put together enough stuff to go out and do a few tunes!

Look, I've had a K2500 with all the options for over ten years. It is STILL one of the most powerful, deep, extensively customizable keyboards in the world. But I don't GIG with it. It is overkill, and takes forever to program. Live, onstage, with an audience in front of me, I can do most of what the K2500 can do, with a FRACTION of the work, with my G70.

In the studio, I can do everything the MS does with software and hardware combinations.

I truly believe they are different mindsets, different paradigms, and need different equipment. I don't WANT to drag everything that I use in the studio on a stage with me, even if it all IS bundles up neatly in one keyboard. I want something that can get 'close enough' that takes seconds to program, not weeks. I ain't GOT weeks!

if your creativity is limited by your equipment, then its your creativity thats the problem.....not the equipment. But hey...i am not knocking your enthusiasm for the MS. sometimes it takes a new bit of gear to respark your creative ideas. Go for it Miden. All i ask is that once you have got your MS set up as you would like let us hear what it can really do because the demos in the past and still present on the MS website do not sound any better than what is currently available on any of the proprietory based keyboards .

Diki,
All I can say is like "..whatever man", its all good. You can do your thing, those of us choosing to go down another path do our thing..its all sweet..

Ultimately as long as we can all do "our thing" that has gotta be a good thing? Yes?

Frank, thanks for the support.. Nice to know you are still popping in from time to time!!

Cheers
Dennis

thanks spalding...

1. If you buy something from marketing hype or online demos (Or because it has a certain name on the back) then the chances are you will be disappointed when you find it doesn’t do what it says on the tin. (If your brand loyal, you will probably ignore it, but it will get you in the end, by having to upgrade to the latest board)

2. If you buy what someone else says is the best, then you will again be disappointed, as no 2 people will like exactly the same. (Choose what you want to do)

3. There is no substitute for going out and listening too and trying out the board live. (There are some people who buy a car without trying it first, and they can usually be identified by the fact that they keep moaning about it not doing what they wanted, which proves hands on is always the best way to judge)

4. In the final analysis, if you like it after you try it, buy it, if you don’t like it, then don’t buy it, it’s as simple as that.

If it helps, (Remembering this is my personal opinion) I have had both hardware based boards, and computer based systems, but I would not go back to either, as the Wersi OAS system gives me both in one board. (Just remember it is not for everybody)

Bill

Look, whatever, man...

I just wanna HEAR something. Done talking.

Peace out

Yep, I hear that!! back at ya

Dennis

Listen guys...
If someone get a new MS, can only discuss about the quality of the styles, because we know..no one keyb now can compete with the T3 styles..
I can have also Colossus or omnisphere, but you will always reply that the T3 styles are the best....

after the styles point, what you have to costumize on MS??

when you get if, is full of media library and giga library..
You have ONLY to browser the desidered sounds and add it on the display menu.
browser from the 20.000 midifiles/Mp3 and play it...
Press ONE key to run the B4 II or to open a new ASIo patch...
what you have to costmize?

you can simple open the box and go gig like make the all others
I dont see where is the problems

To be honest Dom neither do I.

Dennis



[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-04-2008).]

Hi

Now I think the discussion about MS is much better.

Having tried the MS for several months (last year) it it my conlusion that the MS is not comparable to an arranger from the big 3. And as an OOTB arranger it was IMO not up to par compared to my PSR 3000.

But the MS is so much of anything else. The drawback (at least for me) was that it demanded lots of
- musical skills
- technical skills
- time
- patience
to fully explore its potency.

I must admit that I did not have the time and patience! I just want an arranger to play for fun!

My conclusion is:
- If you cant fullfill the 4 points above: Do not buy a MS.
- If you fullfill the 4 points above: Go for it.

Just my opinion.

Regards
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

Originally posted by chony:



The Fantom G can also utilize VSTi's (over USB) with a computer. It also has a 'real' Sampler and you can import instrument samples into it by way of the audio inputs.

Best,
Mike