It seems like the most common chord types are Major, Minor, and 7th. But when (and why!) did the Minor 7th chord overtake the Diminished chord in popularity and usefulness?

For example, Hal Leonard "EZ Play" type fake books contain only Major, Minor, 7th, and Minor 7th chords. But accordions, and chord organs made before the era of electronic instruments usually had Major, Minor, 7th, and DIMINISHED chords. One of the organ books I have calls the Diminished "chords of all work," and recommends occasionally substituting them to achieve a different sound.

So my question: Why are Diminished chords generally absent from simplified arrangements of modern music? Why do you suppose Yamaha and Casio chose the Minor 7th (instead of Diminished) as the fourth type of "single finger chord"? Did popular music change that much in the 1960s and 70s to favor the Minor 7th chord, and render the Diminished chord obsolete?

Thanks in advance for your responses! -Ted

The 'dumbing down' of young players continues...

I think it must be a conspiracy by us 'old farts' to keep our jobs a little longer If we don't teach 'em to play, they can't take our gig

PS .... One Finger Chord systems are Satan's doing!

When I was teaching keyboards, I always taught diminished seventh, rather than simple diminished chords. They are interchangeable with diminished chords in 99% of musical circumstances, and it means only having to learn *three* chords and changing the root/inversion as appropriate.

Cdim7 = Ebdim7 = F#dim7 = Adim7
C#dim7 = Edim7 = Gdim7 = Bbdim7
Ddim7 = Fdim7 = Abdim7 = Bdim7

How hard can it be to learn *three* chords ???

I agree, but I think you mean the One Finger Chord system created by Yamaha or Korg. The Roland system is much better, all keys you make use of are musical OK.
And diminished chords (or augmented)are possible too, see Page 250 of the G70 manual.
Greetings
Peter

There are pros, who play all the chords with all the fingers, but there are those who play the best they can.

No harm in asking a question, based on a level of proficiency.

An 'old fart' in a nursing home asked me to set up song registrations for him in his Yamaha S700. He played his heart out until his death. He was the happiest one finger player I ever met



[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 09-10-2008).]

Hallo Zuki,
the problem are the wrong keys Korg expected. e.g. a)C7 = C3+B2, or
b) Cm = C3+Bb2.
Playing these keys Roland Chord Recognition is a) Cmaj7 and b) C7. What do you think about that. Right?
Cmaj7 and more does not exists in the Korg or Yamaha sytem, and the beginner never will learn how to play the right chords. Exactly like your happy player.
Greetings
Peter

Yep...the beginner may as well spend the time learning proper chords...it will surely pay off later when he/she runs into more complex ones.

Also, I am always glad to see when a keyboard supports inversions.

Ian

I like diminished chords myself. Play them a lot. Diminished chords can add some flavor and nuance to an otherwise ordinary chord progression. I say = long live diminished chords! Along with all the rest of 'em of course.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-10-2008).]

It's more than just learning chords, though. An understanding of harmony is key to understanding how all music works.

I appreciate the input so far. But why do the folks at Hal Leonard, etc. choose to use Minor 7th and not Diminished in their simplified arrangements? Are Minor 7th chords a better "musical approximation" of the full piano score / bass clef?

If you are stuck with an accordion or a chord organ that has dedicated buttons for Diminished chords (but not Minor 7th), are there any rules for chord substitution? Is it me, or did Diminished chords just fall out of favor during the 1960s?

I think its just the fact that fewer people are studying music in their youth and the market HL is serving with the easy notes series product line doesn't usually want any part of something as "scary and foreign" as a diminished chord. Putting my marketing degree to use, HL has probably seen a difference in sales with the most basic of chord symbols...Once most (easy note)consumers start seeing lots of accidentals, dim, aug chords, etc. they probably put it back in the rack and look for something simpler.

The players who can handle different chords, inversion, etc. aren't standing in front of the easy note series products in the first place...

My 2 cents...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

An "Old school" Vegas veteran showed me the use of diminished chords used as "passing chords" on the bandstand in the late 60's.

At the time, the band was an Eddie Arnold kind of group, and the use of a diminished chord to transition from Cmaj 7 to Fmaj 7, instead of a Dmin 7 was as much a vital part of stylized music from a specific era as an expression of a level of competence, although proper use did separate the men from the boys.

Gotta love those diminished chords!

Good topic!


Russ

Would someone like to do a quick tutorial for the SZ or possibly direct interested parties to a link or two?

Maybe like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdo5VuvculI

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 09-10-2008).]

Cass-good symplified explanation of the viability of only three diminished chords in this video. Just memorize the 4 notes in each chord. As inversions, that particular fingering is 4 different diminished chords. All you have to do (simplified way) is to make sure that the structure you use has the root note, or bass note of the chord you're after. With guitar, it's easy, too. Just have your first finger touch the appropriate note on the high E, or your 2nd finger touch the correct "C" position on the 2nd or "B" string. It's pretty easy. The selection of the position has to do with the tune structure and proximity of the other chords and lead line notes of the tune.


Fun stuff!


Russ