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#242053 - 09/15/08 02:43 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Yeah, good advice Bill.
Dennis

Edited coz the icon thingy (thumbs up) didn't work and just posted a URL???!!

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 09-15-2008).]

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#242054 - 09/15/08 05:34 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Not only that Bill by WAITING you will give the others Roland, Ketron etc, to introduce their next arrangers then you can make an educated decision.

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#242055 - 09/15/08 06:12 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
No way that the XS kits sound like the Tyros, unless of course the T3 has incorporated some of the samples and processing from the XS. It's not close at all. I can speak from a bit of experience on this, since I have the Motif ES and T2. I tend to doubt very much that the XS took a step backward from what the ES has in drum sounds.

You may not like the sound of the snares on either. That's fair enough, but just the amount of multisampling itself on the Motif ES kits makes a tremendous difference vs the T2, especially when you try playing either live or making a midi file that has some varying velocity dynamics.

Then there are the electronic kits. This is where the biggest difference occurs. Squeak has always lamented the lack of any substantial electronic drumsounds on the PSR / Tyros line, and for good reason. Save for a few very generic electro kits, on the T2 they are practically non existent. Not so on the ES and I have to believe that the XS stepped forward from the ES.

For my money, the T2 drums sound remarkably similar to the kits from my first PSR, the 530. I realize that memory tends to distort reality, but recordings I made with the 530 tell the story pretty well. Same as some of the old PA80 recordings I have vs the T2. Remarkably more life like for me, anyway, and the PA80 is approaching 9 yrs old.

With that in mind, I'm not going to waste my time traveling to see a T3. Though I'd like 76 keys, for me this is not a deal breaker, but Yamaha have proved to me that as time has passed, the arranger line is what it is, is not likely to change much from generation to generation, and it is obviously successful for them, in spite of what any of us might think. That said, very little that matters to me personally has changed over the years, other than a few megavoices and SA2 voices, some of which are quite good yet also somewhat limited vs other brands or sample sets. The styles are more life like, but the drums still sound very sterile, the harmonizer is still very limited after all these years, and editing or making user styles is a bear vs doing it on the ancient already PA80 for example, sound editing in real time is extremely limited vs anything else I've ever used, and I'm just not interested.

Of course, I could be proven wrong, and major improvements to some of the things I mentioned could be under the hood of the T3, but somehow, given what I've seen over the last 10 years or so, and based on what I am reading and hearing already, I very much doubt it

AJ




[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 09-15-2008).]
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AJ

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#242056 - 09/15/08 06:25 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
The percentage of people who want better Tyros drums is probably equal to those who want 76 keys. In Yamaha's eyes that is very very small to affect their worldwide sales of arrangers which exceeds all other.With success like that why should they change anything?

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#242057 - 09/15/08 06:43 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Bluezplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2195
Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
I agree Donny. It is what it is, and it apparently works quite well for Yamaha, but it just isn't for me.

BTW, if anyone would like to compare the drums sounds between the T2 and the Motif line, here's what I'll do.

Send me a short midifile(s) of your choice. I will record it as played back on both instruments, as is, and then, just for ha has, if it has little or velocity and timing dynamics, I will humanize it a bit and then record it on both again. Or if you'd like I can also record it played back on BFD, the M3, a Jamstix drum sample kit, even a good soundfont. Jamstix is cool too because depending on how I set it up, it can take that midifile and process it in different ways, adding dynamics that give it more life.


AJ
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AJ

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#242058 - 09/15/08 07:01 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Right on AJ! Man you couldn't be more correct.. Excellent points about the difference in kits between your T2 and Motif ES. Owning a Motif ES myself..., and having already spent a good deal of time on the Motif XS.., and having demoed the Tyros 2 several times..., after hearing the kits on the Tyros 3...., I have to say they DO NOT match the quality of the ES/XS.

It's two different worlds here. Again.., it's like Yamaha only lets the boys play together sometimes, but with serious restictions. They'll share the great signature voices from the arranger line with the Motif line..., but when it comes to their top arranger, they just will not go the other way.

What Yamaha SHOULD do is after the T3 is released..., release (via an OS udate-that's FREE).., and tweek a few of the styles to work specifically with new sampled kits (from the Motif line) that can be loaded into the Ty's sample memory.

However, my only concern would be how the Tyros 3 can handle loading these samples. The current Tyros 2 isn't really praised for fast sample loading. Anyways.., tweeking a few styles to work with XS drum kits would make a very notable difference.
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#242059 - 09/15/08 07:24 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Bluezplayer:
I agree Donny. It is what it is, and it apparently works quite well for Yamaha, but it just isn't for me.

BTW, if anyone would like to compare the drums sounds between the T2 and the Motif line, here's what I'll do.

Send me a short midifile(s) of your choice. I will record it as played back on both instruments, as is, and then, just for ha has, if it has little or velocity and timing dynamics, I will humanize it a bit and then record it on both again. Or if you'd like I can also record it played back on BFD, the M3, a Jamstix drum sample kit, even a good soundfont. Jamstix is cool too because depending on how I set it up, it can take that midifile and process it in different ways, adding dynamics that give it more life.


AJ


Aj you can compare all day long A/Bing different drum sets ....but in the end everyone has a different opinion some will love it some will hate it....& in the end result it nothing changes because who's right or wrong?

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#242060 - 09/15/08 08:35 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
Quote:
you can compare all day long A/Bing different drum sets ....but in the end everyone has a different opinion some will love it some will hate it....& in the end result it nothing changes because who's right or wrong?


Donny, I think most people would agree that getting a Drum Kit or all the Kits on a keyboard to sound like a "real" Drum Kit i.e. a "real" set of Drums is the ideal, and is a BIG or possibly even HUGGGEEEEE reason why someone would NOT even consider purchasing a certain keyboard because of the nature in quality of the Drum Kits e.g. Tyros3, etc. I was reading some of the comments over at PK Club about the T3 Drum Kit demos Yamaha posted and some of the people over there held the same sentiment that many of us do here i.e. "when is Yamaha ever gonna start putting some high quality professional drum kits on their totl arrangers?" And 76 keys was brought up too I might add.

Nothing changes?? Could it be because Yamaha isn't listening or motivated to do so? Yes, they did give the T3 all new Drum Kits but where, oh where, is the sound improvement in these new Drum Kits? I think I hear a teenie little bit of improvement from the demos they've posted but it's very slight in my humble opinion. They also could have added some extra reverb and or dynamics to the demo recordings to give the "effect" of a better overall sound, although I hope that isn't the case, right?

I guess we'll know in around a month or two what the real skinny is on the T3 Drum Kits. Unless of course Yamaha happens to give some additional Drum Kit demos that are more than just a few seconds in length and that will truly demonstrate the "true" nature of these all "new" Drum Kits on the T3 to us, thereby convincing us one way or the other once and for all. If they don't then most of us will get the chance to test the T3 in person before too long anyway. >> But demos are what provides and/or 'sustains' the hype and enthusiasm that surrounds a keyboard product. In other words, if the T3 had some truly outstanding and professional sounding drum kits on-board you can almost be assured that Yamaha would be getting a better response from the T3 then from some of the stuff we've been hearing around the Net since they announced it. Which hasn't been very positive in a lot of ways i.e. = Small incremental upgrade, still no decent Drum Kits (even though they claim they're all new) [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img], no 76 key version, etc., etc. They'll probably still sell a boat load of 'em though. Which is mostly what they're concerned about anyway right? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img]

Best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#242061 - 09/15/08 09:28 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Mike excactly like I said.......
either buy it, tweak it to your liking......add external devices to it....don't buy it, or buy somthing else that makes you happy. Yamaha is not the only arranger in the world today.

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#242062 - 09/15/08 10:07 AM Re: TYROS 3 Today ....Are You READY?
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Quote:
Originally posted by keybplayer:
Donny, I think most people would agree that getting a Drum Kit or all the Kits on a keyboard to sound like a "real" Drum Kit i.e. a "real" set of Drums is the ideal, and is a BIG or possibly even HUGGGEEEEE reason why someone would NOT even consider purchasing a certain keyboard because of the nature in quality of the Drum Kits e.g. Tyros3, etc. I was reading some of the comments over at PK Club about the T3 Drum Kit demos Yamaha posted and some of the people over there held the same sentiment that many of us do here i.e. "when is Yamaha ever gonna start putting some high quality professional drum kits on their totl arrangers?" And 76 keys was brought up too I might add.

Nothing changes?? Could it be because Yamaha isn't listening or motivated to do so? Yes, they did give the T3 all new Drum Kits but where, oh where, is the sound improvement in these new Drum Kits? I think I hear a teenie little bit of improvement from the demos they've posted but it's very slight in my humble opinion. They also could have added some extra reverb and or dynamics to the demo recordings to give the "effect" of a better overall sound, although I hope that isn't the case, right?

I guess we'll know in around a month or two what the real skinny is on the T3 Drum Kits. Unless of course Yamaha happens to give some additional Drum Kit demos that are more than just a few seconds in length and that will truly demonstrate the "true" nature of these all "new" Drum Kits on the T3 to us, thereby convincing us one way or the other once and for all. If they don't then most of us will get the chance to test the T3 in person before too long anyway. >> But demos are what provides and/or 'sustains' the hype and enthusiasm that surrounds a keyboard product. In other words, if the T3 had some truly outstanding and professional sounding drum kits on-board you can almost be assured that Yamaha would be getting a better response from the T3 then from some of the stuff we've been hearing around the Net since they announced it. Which hasn't been very positive in a lot of ways i.e. = Small incremental upgrade, still no decent Drum Kits (even though they claim they're all new) [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img], no 76 key version, etc., etc. They'll probably still sell a boat load of 'em though. Which is mostly what they're concerned about anyway right? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif[/img]

Best,
Mike



You must consider the separate division this keybard is in within Yamaha......the HOME KEYBOARD Division.

You won't see a Tyros on stage with any major act. They use the Motif from another division.

These are marketed to those who cannot afford a Clavinova or want a Clavinova in a portable.
Arrangers are simple not considered Professional use keyboards. Those who use them in that manner are in the minority and carry little weight with Yamaha. Now the Motif owners complaining about something WILL get a lot of attention.

IF the Motif sounds better, buy one and a laptop with Band in the Box....
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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