I was just told by Yamaha, that shipping could start as soon as the end of September, I was on the first shipment list.

Looks like what we expected,
a List of $4900
a MAP of $3900

Those who know me can call for a Synthzone buy

I figured it would ship relatively soon after the Manual and Data sheet appeared on Yamaha's website. Yamaha is pretty good at getting their product to market on time or before - unlike some of the other manufacturers we know, right?

I also find it refreshing that Yamaha is keeping the price point roughly the same as the T2 when it shipped. Those who don't mind playing on a board with only 61 keys will be getting the new T3 for the price of a T2 but with the added features and other additions that the T3 brings to the table like USB 2.0, twice the WAV ROM, etc.

The conundrum in this scenario is those who already have a T2 and wondering if it's worth the upgrade to get the T3. From my perspective it will ultimately be a personal decision that won't be made lightly but in the end Yamaha will most likely still sell a boat load of 'em and be no worse the wear because of it. Unless, of course, the "rage against the machine" mentality universally kicks in and Yamaha suddenly finds their next money maker mysteriously lies dormant and nowhere near meets the intended sales projection they were hoping for it to generate.

>> I hope that won't affect your sales of the T3 in any way frank!?!?

Best,
Mike

That's still a $400 increase over the street price of the T2 at introduction...

A 10% cost increase is not insignificant, IMO...

Hmmm.. Maybe there was an introductory offer on the T2 when it first came out. I know that each time I went to Guitar Center quite a while back I kept seeing the price listed at $3,999 but it had already been out a while. So the T2 could have been introduced at $3,599 and then Yamaha jacked the price once the introductory offer expired I suppose. I agree, $4,000 bucks for a measly "61" key (and geared for the Home Hobbyist no less) is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. I paid $2,500 for my Tyros back in 2003 and have a hard time understanding how Yamaha can justify a $1,500 price increase 5 years later on a product that is within the same existing model line and has only a few additional features, styles, and sounds added to it. Plus on top of it a person who buys a T3 will pay OVER a hundred dollars MORE on tax alone for a T3 vs. a T1 bought back in 2003 for $2,500.

Another example if I may.. My Roland Fantom G7 76 key PRO level workstation with a LARGER LCD and with better resolution than the Tyros3 LCD, a REAL Sampler, 24 track Audio Recorder plus an additional 128 tracks of MIDI recording, an XLR Mic input, S/PDIF Digital I/0, USB 2.0, outstanding Sequencer with Micro editing, built like a SHERMAN TANK with an all aluminum metal housing, MIDI over USB "2.0" , Sonar LE included with purchase, and I could go on and on and on and on and on and on.... >> How much did I pay for the priviledge of owning that puppy?? How does $2,499 sound? Truth.. straight up. In fact GC had the Fantom G on sale again this past weekend for the same price if anybody was fortunate enough to snag one.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 09-03-2008).]

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Another example if I may.. My Roland Fantom G7 76 key PRO level workstation with a LARGER LCD and with better resolution than the Tyros3 LCD, a REAL Sampler, 24 track Audio Recorder plus an additional 128 tracks of MIDI recording, an XLR Mic input, S/PDIF Digital I/0, USB 2.0, outstanding Sequencer with Micro editing, built like a SHERMAN TANK with an all aluminum metal housing, MIDI over USB "2.0" , Sonar LE included with purchase, and I could go on and on and on and on and on and on.... >> How much did I pay for priveledge of owning that puppy?? How does $2,499 sound? Truth.. straight up. In fact GC had the Fantom G on sale again this past weekend for the same price if anybody was fortunate enough to snag one.
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EXCELLENT POINT MAN! Hell the Motif XS8 costs $3199 an it's freakin 10 times more keyboard than the Tyros3 is. Plus 88 GH keys! Four grand for a Tyros is freakin INSANE!

The Fantom G7 is not an arranger...

You guys crack me up.

Ian

Arranger or not Ian.., IT DOES NOT MATTER. Do you think just because your keyboard has styles it's worth so much more? Seriously Ian...., what can you think of to justify that HUGE price difference between the pro arranger and pro synth. Especially when you look at the difference in power between the two.., not to mention construction quality differences.

The Motif XS8 would eat the Tyros3 up for lunch man..., yet it costs less.... and the MotifXS is Yamaha's TOP keyboard. I doubt the Tyros is considered Yamaha's TOP keyboard. So often I hear WS owners say they want a pro arranger (but then they see the freakin price).

Hell you can buy a Motif XS6 for less than the current Tyros2.., and if for one moment Ian you think the Tyros2 is more keyboard than the Motif XS6.., boy do I really have some great ocean-front property here in West Virginia to sell ya...




[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-03-2008).]

Yes...IT DOES MATTER.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Silly silly stuff.

I though you had more on the ball than that, Squeak...come on, you can't be serious?

Ian


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-03-2008).]

Sorry..., forgot Ian.. I'm comparing the Tyros to a board you probably couldn't even find the power-switch to let alone actually operate the darn thing. You do know right that one of the major advertised features of the new XS series was the arps with CHORD RECOGNITION..., and last time I checked there were MANY happy XS customers because it in essence gave them the feel of a synth working like an arranger. There were even posts that talked trash on the new chord recogntion for the arps and di-hard synth junkies saying if the XS acted like an arranger they wouldn't buy it.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-03-2008).]

Tsk tsk, Squeak...you're reaching...insulting me isn't very polite.

I've played all the Yamaha Motif synths, and have done clinics on them....have you?

Shame on you for being so nasty.

Ian

Actually yes I have Ian.... I've given local demos on several occasions for the Motif XS line.... I've also done it for the Fantom X, Motif ES, and the Korg Triton series. I eat, breathe, and live through synths Ian. I live for tweeking a synth.... How about yourself..., do you go past pressing start stop, variation this and that?

We were talking IN GENERAL Ian about the price difference of two PRO keyboards.., one clearly not being more important than the other. If you can't grasp that simple yet basic concept..., then I don't know what else to tell you.

Ian..., I just think it's best you and I don't reply to eachother. I'll ignore your replies and you just ingore mine.... To be honest.., I don't like you.. or at least the internet Ian that I know. So for the sake of not pissing others off on this forum it's best we just not bounce back and forth with eachother. Say whatever you want.., but I for the sake of the sanity of other members here WILL NOT reply to anymore of your posts....

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 09-03-2008).]

Yes, Squeak, I tweak...hey, that rhymes!

I grew up on analog synths...I had a Roland Jupiter 8 and several Moogs...then did the digitals too...a few Casio CZs, more Rolands(JX, D-50/70 etc)...and I haven't mentioned the Yamahas... CS, DX, SY, EX and now Motif.

Lots of tweaking and programming...all very enjoyable and a great experience.

Regarding your "simple, yet basic concept"...it is still comparing apples and oranges...no matter how you try and slice it.

Ian

Thanks for the honesty Squeak...I still think you're a nice guy.

All the best,

Ian

hello all,

I don't want to take sides on this one but arrangers are not synths, like Motif vs G70. one is an apple and the other one is an oranges. Even though some features or sounds cross over. Arrangers through out the years have always been expensive and not to far to what they cost now. Yamahas, wersi, crummer,roland, etc, 20-25 years ago were $2000-3000 sometimes more.

What does this all have to do with Frank selling Tyros3?

Originally posted by keybplayer:
"but in the end Yamaha will most likely still sell a boat load of 'em"

Frank will be happy?

Well...let's see...I paid $3100 for my T2 May 2007. At the time street price was $3495.

You just have to ask for a better price.

So, if the T3 is really going to cost $3900 from anyone for a while that means it would be a $800 price increase over my T2....

That's a lot!
It's going to have to sound a LOT better than the T2 for me to upgrade.

Plus I need to sell my absolutely mint T2.

>>>>>>>>>>> OK, I just decided my T2 is for sale.

Lee

Actually...........For me the main reason I am upgrading from my Tyros2 is better sound quality, which I really expect. I can try it out in my home environment for 30 days, and if I want to return it I'll only have to pay shipping back. You might say I would be renting it for a month for $100. For me, that's better than driving 100 miles to find one and listen to it in a store. That is if it is even hooked up to speakers. It was 3 months until I saw a Tyros2 in Tampa or Miami after I received mine. And it was only on display. I asked if I could play it, and the salesman acted like it would be such a chore to hook it up. No wonder so many people buy online now. Free shipping, no sales tax, lower overhead...........I remember when I enjoyed shopping for a keyboard, going to a store, and seeing a whole array of different models that could be played. I lived near Chicago then, and things aren't like that anywhere near me in Florida. There's probably no turning back now.................. -charley

Most people understand that arrangers are not workstations. But that does not mean that there should be that big of a difference in price. As it relates to price, it is not apples and oranges but the fact that manufacturers know what they can do with their different markets.

Arranger manufacturers know that their market can be easily fooled by hype and inflated spects and don’t care much about price.

The workstation market on the other hand, are in to playing and making music and they have an idea as to what they need to sound good. They can better evaluate hype from workable features. They also are more particular with spending their money.

Well said...., couldn't agree more.

If you make music with a KB in anyway shape or form its a "Workstation" of soughts IMO....who the heck makes up these stupid "BUZZ" words anyway?

Korg, with the M1.

I miss mine for sure......(sigh)

You miss the memory of your M1..If you had another..you would say.."am I crazy"...And it would sit /stored in some case...like my DX-7..

Yep.. agree with both of the above posts!!

Dennis

I think that MAYBE the difference in price between TOTL arrangers and WS's is simply a matter of economy of scale...

There are probably a hundred WS's sold for every arranger. Of course you can charge less if you are selling those kind of numbers

But sadly, the truth is apparent if you look at the keyboards without any preconceived notions. You can buy an 88 note, TOTL ivory feel piano action WS for the same price as a 61 arranger with a plastic body, cheap knobs and buttons, much smaller display, and next to no I/O options.

And, unfortunately, you can't even look to the styles themselves as a cost difference, nowadays. All the TOTL WS have HUGE libraries of very complex 'arpeggios' or 'loops' that are just as hard to program as a good style. Add to that chord following abilities, and it's getting harder and harder to tell them apart.

Except, of course, when you have to pay for them. A TOTL 61 WS like the MotifXS is close to $2199. It's equivalent arranger cousin, the Tyros3 is going to be about $3500. Same keybed, similar display. A LOT of sounds in common. SA voices, Mega voices, Sweet and Live, etc..

Other than the underlying OS, what, on a T2/3 could POSSIBLY be worth an additional $1300+? It certainly isn't the build quality, and no-one in their right mind thinks the Yamaha harmonizer is worth $200, let alone $1300!

So you tell me... do YOU think it is economy of scale, or are we just being ripped off like the wealthy retirees we seem to predominantly be? Because no WS user out there is EVER going to be willing to pay $3500+ for a cheaply built 61 note WS, that's for sure...

the price is determined by what ever the market will bare. simple as that.

Then stop bearing it...

Most of us probably already have an arranger that could keep us musically happy for quite a few years, were we to actually knuckle down and learn it inside and out. Why not sit out the next couple of product cycles, and demonstrate that we aren't willing to 'bear' a burden our WS cousins have already decided is onerous?

Yep...let's do it!

Oh,also, I need to give up the apple pie I love so much!

Lee