That's alright, then. My confidence is restored.

I would appreciate it if you stuck to what I say, if you're replying to a quote of my message. I never said anything about the GUI of Wersi. You obviously have some serious blind spots when it comes to reading. And you're totally missing the point of what Diki says and what I meant to say.

Your PSR-9000 Pro demos sounded god awful, you say. What I am trying to tell you, is that EVERY demo of the Wersi that I've come across, sounded not good enough to justify the price of the instrument. TO ME.

Diki asked you to post a WAV file, since you think MP3 sounds like crap. You never did that, and meanwhile your complaining that nobody responded to your offer to let us come by your place and try the instrument.



No it's not. But if you can't see how ridiculous that comparison is, I'm afraid there's no discussion possible.



I HEARD it in person! I listened to the demos Yamaha placed online, and I've decided it doesn't blow me away. Yet. As soon as there will be more good demos available, I will listen some more. But so far, I'm am not at all convinced that it is a real improvement over what is already out there.



I don't care HOW it plays. I don't care if it has a 24" wide-touchscreen, I don't care if I can select patches by yelling at the thing... as long as I don't like the SOUND. And proper demo-MP3's tell me all I need to know about the SOUND of the keyboard.


------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Sorry, Mr. Food Critic, but if I walk into a restaurant, and it smells like a toilet, the food smells like a toilet, and the service is lousy, and the prices are four or five times higher than the best restaurant in town (and it is almost deserted), personally, I wouldn't put a forkful in my mouth...

But, I guess you would.

Just don't expect it to be easy to persuade anyone with half a brain that, 'pay no attention to all this, it really IS delicious!'.

How long have you had the Abacus? I don't know about you, but when my G70's sound and styles were being dissed, I tossed off a quick demo of the OOTB sound that changed a lot of minds. Took me 15 minutes. What's your problem? Not too busy to post this interminable drivel about how magically, only Wersi's sound like crap on demos, but sound completely different live, but FAR too busy to back up your words with a demo?

Stock sounds, stock styles, just as you get it from the Fatherland...

You've spent more time posting on this thread than this would take.

First off you didn't walk into the restaurant you only saw it from a great distance and decided the food was crap.

Secondly you are correct, I've wasted far more of my time than its worth and I won't any longer. I have much better things to do with my life than attempt to show others that there are other choices besides the big three. It's not my job to convince you to buy a Wersi and it's clear to me that you and others have a very closed mindset.

Anyone who wants to come and audition the Wersi in person, I've made the offer numerous times and you are more than welcome.

Sure. Will tomorrow evening suit you? Oh and will you pay my airline ticket from Amsterdam Airport? I'm a little short on cash these days.

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl

Jeez...

You don't LOOK at food. You smell it, then you eat it (if it smells good enough). Sight is the least important sense for food.

Likewise with arrangers. Touch is the least important sense (other than the feel of the keybed!). First, it has to sound good. Then it has to work well. One out of two is not enough...

You haven't just wasted your time here... you've wasted everyone else's too... Bluster and bravado only get you so far. At some point or another, if you are talking about SOUND, you have to provide some. You can't describe mathematics by dancing, and you can't demonstrate sound by writing...

Perhaps, in future, all you Wersi owners could get together privately, and simply decide NOT to post most of these demos. That is, if you want people to not assume that this really IS what they sound like. If the Wersi, as you claim, really DOES sound far better than these, saving your valuable time for posting something far less joke-like MIGHT help you get the respect you so obviously crave (but can't be bothered to EARN).

Mind you, had I spent the insane amounts of money for something like the Wersi, I probably would have posted something decent long ago or just quietly slunk off in a corner to sulk after I found out I couldn't... The last thing I might want is to have someone with an arranger a third the cost of mine demo something I couldn't match.

Why don't you drive 1600 miles and try my G70? Mine is SO much better than all the other G70's. WAY better than your Wersi. You really have NO IDEA until you have sat at MY one... It really sounds nothing like any demos out there. WAY better. A whole entire different experience...

Don't believe me? Wouldn't make the effort despite my fervent pleas? Think I'm talking out my a$$?

Thought so...

The beauty of the European keyboard festivals (Besides giving yourself a holiday) is that you see virtually all the manufactures and their demonstrators, plus the ability to play them all on one site so you really can compare. (Not forgetting the concerts and various jam sessions that go on throughout)
You should really try to get to one sometime. (If you don’t want to leave the US, there is also the Bill Horn Festival in June each year)
Hope to see some of you over here soon.

Bill

Well, I'll take a stab at replying to the original topic, which departs from the norm around here lately:

I've owned Wersi's in the past. My challenges with the Wersi Brand are:

Contemporary sounds/styles - This board caters heavily to the European Market i.e. lot's of Schlager styles, Ooom Pah pah styles, Theatre Organ, accordian, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I need a more contemporary sounding board to play in the venues and to the younger guests that I do.

Poor Value proposition - for the same price of a Wersi (regardless of how it sounds) you can get an arranger and a Workstation and use them both on a gig with great results. I just can't get around this issue. The Keyboard Manu's Pack so many features into a below $3000 board these days, there is no way Wersi can compete in this area regardless of it's open design and extensibility. It just can't compete.


Reliability - I had nothing but problems with my Wersi, there were no service centers who even knew the product, let a lone could fix it. Most parts are proprietary.

Weird Design Decisions - some of the architecture and design decisions of the board were quite weird from the construction of the keybed to some of the connections. Many of the case parts were made out of WOOD, so that screws would strip out and I had to glue or use Wood Putty to fix them.

Available 3rd party support - there is not much out there in terms of forums, clubs, support sites, etc for Wersi. There is no comparison between Wersi and Yamaha in this area.

I haven't even gotten into the sound set as yet and I won't because of the firestorm it creates. You can't compare today's ROMPLERS to an Open Vsti designed keyboard. There is no comparison in the quality of sound; however I will say that convenience and safety during performing on stage or live goes to the ROMPLER in that you don't have to fiddle with software to load a sound or worry about the size of a sample taking time to load in memory or even whether it will fit in memory or not.

So in the end, I'm pretty happy with my Korg Pa2xpro. I would make some minor tweaks to it, which I'm hoping OS 2.0 upcoming in Sept will make, but all in all it is a great balance between price, performance, reliability and features. Sadly, I don't think you can make the same claim with the Wersi Line. Which is a shame because we are all rooting for the board manufacturers to hit home runs.


------------------
Al Giordano
Visit us at ARRANGER WORLD! http://www.arrangerworld.com

Korg Pa2xpro, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland TD-12 Vdrums, Roland SPD-S.

Al,

I'm not sure how long ago you owned a Wersi product but from what you write it appears it was some time ago and definitely not an OAS instrument. Things have changed greatly since the Wersi "kit" days. I'll go over these point by point.

The factory sounds in OAS7 are as contemporary as anything on the market today (including your PA2X Pro). In addition OAS 7 has several options for creating your own sounds which include FM, Wavetable, Modeling, Sampling, and importing AKAI samples and utilizing VST's. Should you require more sounds than the factory supplied sounds which are nearly 1 GB, all you have to do is decide which method you want to use to create or import more sounds. I owned a Korg Oasys which is about as contemporary sounding as you can get and the Wersi easily went head to head with the Oasys. OAS using OAA can directly play any Yamaha style so if you don't like the Wersi styles, load some Yamahe styles in.

The Wersi does cost more than other workstations/arrangers but there is a reason for that. Build quality, high end components, intuitive software, TFT touch screen, a phenomenal keybed, and a well laid out GUI with numerous real time controls all add to the cost. It's true you could purchase multiple arrangers and workstations to do something similar (you'd also need a laptop with extensive software to do the same things), but then you'd be defeating the purpose of what Wersi's intent was, to have an all in one solution for the performing musician and composer.

If other manufacturers offered a sub $3000 solution that could do all that the Wersi can I'd gladly jump on board and buy one. Show me one system that has the same features, sounds, GUI, real time controls, and expandability and I'll go and try it out and most likely buy it. If it exists I haven't seen it yet and I've auditioned practically every workstation/arranger available today. I've not yet seen the Tyros 3 or Ketron Audya but I will give both an audition when they become available. The Tyros 3 would most likely not be a contender due to its lack of expandability but if it sounds phenomenal, then I'd consider it even though my service experiences with Yamaha weren't great.

Reliability has never been an issue for me and I've had my Abacus Duo Pro system for many years without fault. I've gone from OAS 5, 6, and 7 and even with the upgrades I've still had no reliability issues whatsoever. Other Wersi owners I have spoken with have had similar experiences to mine. Your experience was obviously different but were you dealing with an OAS instrument?

I'm scratching my head regarding "weird design decisions". Once again I question if you've based that decision on the newer OAS instruments. Real metal, real wood, high end components, and a rock solid build are hardly what I'd call weird design decisions. The PA2X Pro uses wood sides and metal construction and you don't seem to take issue with Korg's decision on design.

Wersi actually has several forums and a fairly large user base although most are in Europe. There are several of us Wersi guys here in the USA and Wersi Music USA also exists. Ralph and Chris of Wersi USA are a great bunch of guys and I highly recommend them to anyone. All the Wersi owners I've contacted in the past have always been very helpful as well so I can't complain.

Sound wise there are many ROMPLER based arrangers and workstations that have some wonderful sounds in them. The difference being they are limited by the ROM used. The factory Wersi sounds are top notch and with the exception of say some Yamaha SA voices or specialty Roland or Korg voices which sound quite nice, there isn't much else out there that can compete with the Wersi factory sounds. Going head to head with the Wersi running a VST program no arranger or workstation is going to compete. Only the Lionstracs Mediastation has the capability to utilize VST's and arranger functions but the GUI still isn't as intuitive.

Regarding convenience and safety for live use or performing on stage you are mistaken but that's because you aren't familiar with how OAS works. In OAS 7 you load your VST sounds into banks like you would do with any custom sounds on your typical ROMPLER. On power up the VST's and sounds would load into their respective sound banks. Choosing a sound is then no different than choosing a sound on your PA2X Pro. Large samples are disk based therefore you don't wait for them to load during your performance. There is no "fiddling with software" as you mentioned. Unless you were going to actually load a new VST program from CD/DVD into the system during your performance (which I can't imagine anyone doing), then you need not worry. You wouldn't (or should I say couldn't), load a very large sample or new software on your PA2X during a performance so why would you want to on the Wersi.

The PA2X Pro is a fine instrument and I commend Korg on continually updating the software. There are limitations to which features they can add because of hardware changes not being possible though. Still, if I didn't own the Wersi the PA2X Pro is the only arranger I've heard to date that I'd even consider buying. I did find the build quality of the PA2X Pro a bit lacking compared to my Oasys and Wersi but it was much better than any arranger Yamaha offers.

[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 08-22-2008).]

Hi from Raleigh, NC, USA. I have a WERSI Scala in my house, running OAS 7. It belongs to my house mate. As a side note, anyone on the Eastern part of USA that might want to try it, I'm sure he'd be glad to let you have a go at it.

In our house, we have a Tyros 2, Technics, KN-7000, S900, and a few other smaller/minor keyboards, in addition to the Wersi. Oh, we have an Artisan "Organ In A Box" which is a nice machine.

Although I have logged many hours at the Wersi (both this OAS7 one and several older ones), I wouldn't choose to own one myself for what I do with my solo and band work. The build quality is excellent. They are heavy. Many of the sounds are very good. However, the price (of course) is way out of line to me. Also, the styles are marginal IMHO. Sure, I can spend $1000 and get OAA, but I could also spend a bit over $1000 and get an S900! Also, I just can't see relying on Windows at a gig - not to mention wait 2 minutes for the thing to boot up.

He has had this OAS instrument since about OAS4, and it's been a rocky road to get it to reasonably usable shape. Now it's finally almost there - although still has the so-so styles.

Anyway, those are a few of my opinions/thoughts. And yes, there is a Wersi OAS7 instrument on the east coast of the USA ...

Jim