I wan't to upgrade my Logitech z5500 speaker system to Bose L1.At present i'm playing S900 and i'll purchase Tyros-3 when it is launched.Is BoseL1 speaker system sound better for s900 and Tyros keyboards?What is the sound quality difference between Z5500 and L1 speaker sytem?please clarify.

Thanks,
Sunny

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speake...p&src=musicians

One is for PC gamers> one is a Pro Personal amplifictaion system........$250.00 vs $2500.00

Better? thats up to the player not the speakers



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-06-2008).]

The biggest thing, and perhaps the only thing the Logitech has going, compared to the Bose, it's much less $$ and a great bang for the buck. Otherwise, the Bose excels in every respect, IMO. You need to try it out yourself.

A newer (and less expensive alternative) to the Bose systems is the Fishman SoloAmp, with a street price just under 1k. Check out the product videos:
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=106

2008 Summer NAMM "Best In Show" Winner!

Portable and Powerful

Designed for the singer/songwriter, SoloAmpTM provides exceptional sound quality and coverage in a wide variety of venues. 220Watts of clean, lightweight power drives a line array of six custom high-excursion speakers and a soft dome tweeter. This unique combination delivers incredibly full sound, ultra-wide dispersion, and deeper sonic penetration than the common speaker cabinet. Better yet, the enhanced bass response of the custom-designed speakers means there's no need for a subwoofer!

It's a P.A., and an Amp.

With SoloAmp, the performer and audience hear exactly the same sound, meaning there's no need for separate wedge monitors or a combo amp backline. And because SoloAmp is voiced for the singer/songwriter, acoustic instruments and vocals are projected with superb depth and clarity.

The Ultimate in Portability

SoloAmp weighs only 25lbs*, ships complete with a padded bag equipped with wheels, and includes a rugged speaker stand. Set up takes less than a minute, with only one trip to the car! And full-digital universal power means SoloAmp is ready to travel anywhere in the world.

Features Performing Musicians Demand

Fishman didn't make SoloAmp this portable by scaling back on features or tone. In fact, they've included all of the award-winning elements of the Loudbox family, and added a unique Monitor feature designed to revolutionize an acoustic duo's ability to hear each other on stage. SoloAmp is also equipped with two mic/instrument channels featuring high-quality preamps, each with 3-band EQ, phantom power, built-in reverb, effects loop, and feedback-fighting notch filter and phase controls.

Specs

* Compact Line Array = Ultra wide horizontal dispersion & deeper sound penetration

* Two Mic/Instrument Channels

- High-quality preamps
- 3-band EQ
- Phantom Power
- Independent Reverb level
- Effect Loop
- Feedback-fighting Phase and Notch filters

* Drivers

- Six 4' mid-woofers, patented dual gap, high excursion design, neodymium magnets (200W)
- One 1' neodymium soft dome tweeter with level control (20W)

* Auxiliary Stereo Input with Level control

* Four Digital Reverb effects with master level

* Balanced XLR D.I. outputs for both channels and main mix

* Unique Monitor I/O for improved on-stage ensemble monitoring

* Mute with remote footswitch input

* Tuner Output

* Ships with Stand and padded Carry Bag (w/ wheels)

* Dimensions: 41.5' H x 5.6' W x 6.6' D

* *Weight: 25 lbs without Stand, 35lbs with Bag and Stand

The original designer of the SoloAmp (Jack Campbell) sold the concept to Fishman back in 2005 and is unhappy that they took so long to get it into the marketplace (Fishman kept making changes). He is releasing his original design at Winter NAMM in '09, which will be called the BagAmp and sell for under 500.00 (half the price of the Fishman product). His recounting of the entire SoloAmp saga can be found here (this guy is quite the character as you will discover!):
http://www.aboutjack.com/soloamp.shtml

In the Acoustic Guitar Forum (you should read all 3 pages of postings) he discusses his work with line array speaker systems and compares the Fishman SoloAmp to the Bose L1 (which he once owned):
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128706

I plan on using the Fishman (or BagAmp) system with my Line 6 PodXT Live & Variax guitar setup (mostly acoustic and clean electric guitar), as well as a TC Helicon Harmony-G vocal harmonizer. I may incorporate occasional keyboard parts as well. If I purchase through Samedaymusic, I'll have 60 days to put it thru its paces just to make sure it suits my needs. The SoloAmp is supposed to be released sometime this month (August). Cant' wait!

Michael

I own both the Z-5500 and L1, and both have their strengths. Overall, I prefer the Bose L1, however, a modified Z-5500 5.1 surround system is very close to the Bose in sound quality, and does an outstanding job. The modification is very simple. It essentially consists of replacing the center speaker with a larger speaker with better mid range frequency response and a longer throw, thus providing outstanding mid range for vocals and instruments alike. The sub is awesome, and the satellites do an excellent job is producing crisp, clear high frequency sounds. And, the Z-5500 is 550-watts RMS and 1,100-watts peak power. There are lots of pros using this system in restaurant and nite club settings for audiences to 125 people and report incredible results.

The L1 is an outstanding system, 750-watts RMS and 1,400-watts peak power. The 24 speakers contained within the 7-foot column provides 180 degree coverage with very little falloff, even at significant distances from the speakers. This, when combined with a single sub will easily handle most audiences to 300 or more people, depending on crowd noise, venue configuration, etc... The sounds are incredibly crisp, clear and distinct, both keyboard and vocals. If you make a mistake, everyone in the venue will hear it.

Neither of these can be considered a Conventional Sound System--they're not. Some performers love them, while others claim they're just not sufficient for their purposes. The beauty of purchasing the Bose L1, however, is you can try it out for up to 45 days and if you or your audiences do not like what they hear, you can return it for a full refund--NO QUESTIONS ASKED! That's one hell of a manufacturers guarantee.

Logitech has an outstanding service department, and excellent warranty, but the returns are up to the descretion of the dealers. If something goes bad with the Z-5500 during the warranty period, give them a call and they'll send you a brand new system--NOT JUST REPLACE THE DEFECTIVE PART! And, most of the time they will send the replacement unit out the same day. The only thing you have to do is return the old unit's remote reciever--neat.

The choice is yours. You can go with a conventional sound system, which means speakers on poles and lugging heavy equipment. Or, you can take the plunge and try something unconventional.

Good Luck on whatever system you decide upon,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

For keyboards, the SoloAmp features a 1/4 inch stereo (TRS) Aux Input which mixes the signals to mono when amplified.

The Monitor Input may also be used an another audio input, just like the Aux Input.

User manual can be downloaded from the Fishman site.


According to one of Jack Campbell's postings on the Acoustic Guitar Forum:

"...to cut through the technicalities, in reality, in a small club environment of, say, 100+ capacity or so, Fishman's product should sound better for guitar + vocal than the much more expensive Bose L1 -- even with my grumbling. Why?

I am familiar with the active feedback servo bass augmentation scheme they've implemented with these truly terrific 4-inch drivers. Believe me, the bottom of that fat acoustic sound we all love is there in a way an L1 cannot produce, even with a couple of their cute little "bass" cabinets. Other applications/instruments, I can't say. But, for the specific acoustic player/singer this thing was designed for, the Fishman product is better, theoretically and in practice.

No. I haven't heard one, but I can close my eyes and 'hear' the result of the technology approach they've implemented. There's no way it doesn't stuff the Bose for this usage."

Michael

Looks interesting I'd be anxious to hear what users who audition or buy it have to say.

Donny or Fran on one your field trips maybe you'll get to demo one and give us the low down.

I've auditioned and gigged with the Bose L1 System thru my Yamaha T2, and EXCEPT for its stereo sampled sounds (Grand Piano, etc, which sounded thin & brittle (lacking body) when mixed to mono) appreciated the natural (unhyped) sound it delivered, but I LOVE and APPRECIATE the impressive full bodied 1,100 watt STEREO sound and quick setup convenience of my new customized Z5500 setup. Thanks again to Pose for designing & building this terrific sounding z5500 system upgrade for me. Believe it or not, It's the best sounding PA I ever heard thru my Tyros2. If anybody else is interested in building a similar system, checkout this thread link: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/017799.html

Scottyee,

Thanks for sharing the pic and info on your PA system, very cool indeed! I've been following the Logitech threads here for quite a while and seriously considered building my own setup but with my current hobbyist status with live performance and my desire to lessen the load, I am looking at other solutions. I still think the Logitech could be easily configured in a line array (I somehow remember someone building this kind of setup...but it was still heavier than what I wanted to transport).

Love this thread!

Michael

Steve I posted this amp months ago with no interest from anyone & dont forget you can buy "TEN" Z5500 units for the price of a Bose system with Sub/Mixer...Now whats wrong with this picture?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-06-2008).]

Hmmm, missed that post Donny, but then did a search. Found it. Interesting it's all on the approach. Having the positive review from Summer Namm could have made the difference.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-06-2008).]

Until I see one (the Fishman), and play through it, it's all speculation. I definitely take the blurb about not needing a sub as questionable. You have to understand that these things are primarily marketed to solo acoustic guitarists (look at all the ads, 9 out of 10 are acoustic guitarists singing) who don't even HAVE any need for sub lows... but they DO need good low mids (which I often feel lacking on the Bose stuff).

I am prepared to be proven wrong, but I seriously doubt that they will give a solid kick drum or low synth bass the kind of 'oomph' that a system with a real sub will, at least at higher volumes.

Truth is, get the volume low enough, and even 4" speakers can make a 60Hz tone. Of course, the audience (or you ) won't hear it if they are more than 3 or 4 inches away!

Mark Twain said 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.. To that I would like to add 'specifications'

Seems that there is a STORY behind the Fishman product.
http://www.gearwire.com/fishman-soloamp.html

I have to say I think the Fishman is much like the Bose L1 where the target user would be a singer/guitar player solo act.

I've heard an arranger(PSR-3000) through a Bose L1 (yes, it was set up properly) and it was disappointing to my ears...others seem to love the sound...I didn't.

I don't think the Fishman would be much better...especially since it doesn't have a subwoofer.

To each his own...

Ian

I found this one interesting, especially when I noticed that my local music store and a nearby GC were listed as dealers. I immediately drove to the store, talked with the owner and he said "I have no idea what the hell they are talking about. I've never heard or seen one, ever!"

When I showed the specs to the store's service department staff, one of them said he had seen one a few months ago and it was highly over-rated. That posted wattage is peak power--NOT RMS, and he said the system would be marginal for someone sitting in a saloon plunking his guitar and singing.

I'll be at GC later today and check with them. If they have one in stock, I'll check it out personally and report my findings this evening.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

What excactly was lacking to your approval with the Bose system Ian?

Gary..only a fool believes the numbers...As an example..One of my "old" Roland Keyboard 100 amps {Roland rated at 100 watts}..will out punch the Bose 750 watt unit..and even will out blast the Yorkvilles {NX520p's} that I use ..The Yorkville's out perform the Bose too..

I use my ears and what I feel over someones overstated numbers...

I was very curious and contacted fishman.com. A rep made the following comments via an e-mail when I asked how it would be with a keyboard

"I'm an acoustic guitarist. I had a chance to try out the amp in a few different applications last weekend. One acoustic guitar / vocal solo gig at a small restaurant where it worked great. One small DJ karaoke gig, where I used it for two vocal microphones and prerecorded music. And one rehearsal, where I ran a small mixer with multiple vocals and instruments (including a Nord electric piano) through the item as a rehearsal monitor. I thought the sound of keyboards through the speaker was great, although excessive bass may have put a bit of a strain on the speakers. It did fine with the electric piano, but some of the dance bass heavy DJ music got farty if the volume went up too high. (I had it cranked trying to cover a bar with dance music). Of course, that really isn't the intended application, but it helps me to have a lot of experience with a product when I'm answering questions for consumers.

The speakers have WAY more bass than the Bose product on its own (without subwoofer) and gave excellent room coverage."

Audio Input/Output
• Amplifier 1 output power: 250W (rms, into 4Ù), assigned to
L1 model I Cylindrical Radiator® loudspeaker
• Amplifier 2 output power: 250W (rms, into 4Ù), assigned to one or two B1 bass
modules using the B1 Bass Module connector
• Output level, Line OUT: Balanced XLR connection,


This is taken from Bose manual..The system is a 500 watt and that is at 4 ohms..

Fran, the earlier unit (PAS) was 3, 250watt amps, the newer one seems to have been changed. BTW - your old Roland tanks are so bass heavy, that no one could hear enough clarity to judge the volume! hee heeee...
Behave .... we know you hate all non Roland stuff.

Fran,

Each section of the tower is 250-watts RMS--total (2 sections) 500-watts RMS, just for the tower. The sub is 250-watts RMS. The total, combined RMS power is 750-watts, and that's from the manual that is in my hot little hand! The total, peak power rating is 1,400-watts in both the U.S. and Canada. The peak rush current is 32 amps. I don't know where you got your manual, but mine came with the system.

Now, lets address your Rolands and Yorkvilles. Considering the fact that your hearing has been shot to hell for years from hearing all that distorted sound bouncing from the walls, I wouldn't trust YOUR EARS to determine which amp has the most of anything.

And, just in case your eyesight is shot to hell as well, here's a link to the specs for the L1. Click Here

Cheers,

Gary

Gary I got the document from the same page..Go to the doc section and download..

I don't believe the Electric usage 1,400 watts is the peak...

I guess I better start calling my Cubes 220 watts..

I guess my audiences all have their hearing loss too..(for real)..

No one has ever told me they preferred the Bose over "conventional " systems...quite the opposite...on several occasions...

They want to feel my "bottom" heavy sound..especially to "hotties" that can still hear..

Dave you would be surprised how well the horn and tweeter can deliver..if you want to cut the woofer down...I have recently found out that the components Roland used in those "old" amps were simply the best..in fact it takes mucho bucks to match them with today's components..

I hope I have them for another 25 years..and can still hear them..

Now my eyes..nothing wrong with them..

Read the manual..

Fran,

I thought you were familiar with Ohm's Law, but I guess that's not the case. Look it up using Google, then you will find that what I posted was indeed the actual power--IT'S 1,400-WATTS PEAK, 750-WATTS RMS. You can also go to the Bose forum and get the same information. This isn't rocket science. READ THE MANUAL!

As for the Solo, the GC here doesn't stock them. It's a special order item, and the guy at GC said they are primarily used for guitar players doing small niteclub jobs. He said they're OK for guitars and vocals, but have no bottom end. I don't have any first hand information, mainly because there is no place I could find locally that handles them or has one in stock.

Check out those peepers fran! Those hotties may not be as hot as you thought.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

Gary I have two senses that are still perfect...my vision (Eye sight and reading a person.. )..and I have a good sense of smell...including when something is fishy..

BTW: Gary you know as well as I do...these numbers mean nothing....and it is the sound pressure level (SPL) that delivers...This has to be over 124 SPL to be considered "professional"...

And the 4 ohms is a shortcut to get the most out of a lower power source...usually resulting in a harsh, brittle sound...

The good stuff will always be 8 ohms..

What do you think the SPL on the Bose are?

Maybe that is on Bose site...but I bet ..NOT..


Just a difference in opinion from to "old" guys..but you are still a tad older..

"Just a difference in opinion from to "old" guys..but you are still a tad older.."

And don't ever forget it KID!

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Oh, you silly, silly man .... almost all amps will deliver their full output to 4 ohms. They sell these units with 8 ohm loads for protection and expansion.
For the record: "harsh and brittle" are the farthest things from an accurate description of any Bose product...just ask some of those hearing impaired, "hotties" that need the extra ooomph to dance.

Your info is so off base on those cubes - you will be the only person to have them in 20 years, so it's good that you love them so much!

I will happily bet a case of Möet that in twenty years time, more people will be playing through conventional PA's and cubes than will be playing through stick line arrays...

I remember exactly the same hype and drivel when Bose came out with the 802 type systems... 'Oh yeah... in the future, EVERYONE will be playing through these kinds of speaker systems...' 'It's the future of live sound', yada yada yada...

Well, maybe some 'alternate' future... You know, the one with the flying cars and the vast modern clean metropolises, with no poverty and shiny happy people holding hands....

Most of you Bose haters are missing the point. The conventional systems are not the standard in large concerts at all - line arrays are the thing. The Bose has brought this technology to the smaller venues...and quite brilliantly.

The simple fact is this:
One Bose tower can fill a room with better sound in more places than a box on a stick sysetem. Sure, the boxes MAY sound wonderful, but not the same coverage. There are extra loud spots, extra quiet spots, dead spots and boomy spots.....with the Bose - everything, everywhere is smooth, even and balanced.

We "believers" are only trying to share this wonderful news with the rest of you, but if you insist on buying into the dinasaurs .... more work for me!

DITTO DAVE! Diki, I'll take that bet and hopefully both of us will be alive 20 years from now so I can collect.

BTW: Vertical arrays have been in use in extremely large venues much longer than anyone can imagine. My first encounter with them was in 1961 while working for Executone Corporation in Baltimore. We were installing them in huge churches and halls and they were marketed as Sound Columns. The speakers were a bit larger then, 6-inch if I recall correctly, and most of the cabinets were made of wood, which was custom finished to resemble wooden beams in the cathedreals. Sound Columns were positioned in each corner of the church, with the base of the unit about 6 feet above the floor.

Sure brings back some fond memories. The installations were hair raising, especially when you consider the ceiling height of the churches, which is where all the wiring was routed. All the work was done on jury-rigged extension ladders so they could reach high enough to encase the wiring beneath wooden molding.

At the church my daughter attends, they have a pair of Bose columns on each side of a massive alter. The subs are hidden beneath the alter's table, which is covered with a velvet tapestry. The columns are the same color as the wall, and the minister said they were ordered that color from Bose. The system fills the huge cathedreal with beautiful sound, but strangely, with all those hard surfaces, marble floors, wooden walls, etc.., there is no echo through the sound system. Ironically, if you clap your hands the sound reverberates like a ping-pong ball.

Cheers,

Gary

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Travlin' Easy

I'm impressed by reading this thread, particularly about the POSE modified Logitech Z-5500 (POS-1)(POSE)Speaker System and the remarks made by Scottyee pertaining to it. Since Pose has provided all construction details, I'm going to make one because, I believe, it's the speaker that's more important than the power amp (wattage)for the best possible sound.

Ron

[This message has been edited by RonGlass (edited 08-09-2008).]

[This message has been edited by RonGlass (edited 08-09-2008).]