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#237169 - 07/01/08 05:57 AM TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742

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#237170 - 07/01/08 06:09 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4224
Loc: Michigan
Excited to see what improvements they make
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Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#237171 - 07/01/08 06:13 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9204
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
and the hype continues..
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#237172 - 07/01/08 08:35 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Stephenm52 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 4713
Loc: USA
Marketing, Marketing and more marketing!! They are masters at it!!!

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#237173 - 07/01/08 09:15 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Gunnar Jonny Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4009
Loc: Norway
Hehe, this website remind me about when Technics KN7000 was on the way....
little by little and then all that sudden:
NO MORE TECHNICS KEYBOARDS !!!

Guess that won't happen to Yamaha ?

Happy Playing whatever kb we play
GJ
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Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#237174 - 07/01/08 11:35 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2068
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
Does anyone know for certain if the styles are for the most part going to be based on 4 bar loops?
Thanks
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I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#237175 - 07/01/08 12:44 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
If your looking for a good price on a Tyros 2 get ready people will be dumping them very soon, now that they know T3 is on the way .......

If you have a T2 get ready to dump it before the price wars plummet downhill

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#237176 - 07/01/08 02:02 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1663
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
too late, the price dropped at least 6 months ago.

I'll be taking orders soon for the T3
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www.AudioworksCT.com

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#237177 - 07/01/08 02:39 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Quote:
Originally posted by brickboo:
Does anyone know for certain if the styles are for the most part going to be based on 4 bar loops?
Thanks


Boo I would assume so....stick with KORG for what you need regarding 16 bar styles.

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#237178 - 07/01/08 05:08 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Or just append a style division to itself, and edit the last bar or so to be a little different.

It's not that hard, try it... All you often need to do is edit the drum part and maybe the bass a little, and all your four bar styles suddenly become eight bar ones.

Rinse and repeat for sixteen...

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#237179 - 07/07/08 12:19 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Tryggve Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Sweden
I will never buy a 61 keys keyboard once more. I have a PA2X Pro, and I will
buy a Motif XS rack when it will come out.
I think that will be a purfect
comination. Motif, sounds, PA2X Pro arranger
sounds, connected together....purfect.

Tryggve Sweden

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#237180 - 07/07/08 05:59 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2260
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Motif XS rack is now available in US.
I was interested, but I auditioned a Motif XS 8....sounds are OK, but extended articulation I was not impressed with. XS rack is same sounds.
T2 has better SA.

Lee
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Lee S.

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#237181 - 07/07/08 06:18 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Sadly, the one thing I REALLY like in the MotifXS keyboards is dropped in the XS Rack (and has been for all the Motif Racks)...

The sampler...

Somehow, Roland can include it in their Fantom Racks, but Yamaha drop it for the Motif series. Shame, really, as it isn't worth it for me to get a Fantom rack, as many of those sounds, and the 'flava' is already in my G70, and I really wanted to add Mega voices to my rig, but the incompatibility between MotifXS Mega voices and T2 and S900 ones makes using the XS Rack as a replacement for those products very difficult, and with no sampler, it starts to be a far less attractive purchase.

Shame...

Hey, Jørgen - if you are reading this, how about a program that converts from T2/S900 Mega information into XS Mega info...? That would be REAL handy

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#237182 - 07/08/08 08:36 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Quote:
I really wanted to add Mega voices to my rig, but the incompatibility between MotifXS Mega voices and T2 and S900 ones makes using the XS Rack as a replacement for those products very difficult, and with no sampler, it starts to be a far less attractive purchase.


Shame...

You never know though. Maybe Yamaha "fixed" the SAV implementation with the Rack XS compared to the Motif XS. I believe though that the Mega Voices are all the same in the Rack XS, T2, and S900. At least as far as the technology behind them goes that is.
The S900 has less in quantity of the mega voices than the T2 or Rack XS does though. But there should be no incompatibility as far as using the Rack XS with the S900 or T2 in my opinion.

What you need to be aware of is if you have another brand of keyboard product other than the Yamaha brand and you try to MIDI up to the Rack XS you will most likely face incompatibility issues with not only the Mega Voices on the Rack XS, but also the SA voices on the Rack XS as well. I know I had problems when I midi'd up my Roland Sonic Cell with my Tyros. Since I bought the Roland Fantom G I am now using my Sonic Cell with that instead of my Tyros. Of course with that combo there is complete integration and compatibility. But the Motif Rack-XS used with a non-Yamaha i.e. (minus Mega voice and SAV inside) product?? There's bound to be some compatibility issues in my opinion. >> Your mileage may vary.. And all I can say is buyer beware!!

PS: I'm talking about when you play SMF on your keyboard through the Rack-XS. If you play the keys while playing the patches i.e. "voices" in the Rack XS you should be fine. Except that you can't play the Mega Voices in a live venue type situation as we all know. At least not effectively anyway. Again, your mileage may vary, depending on how well you can play those nefarious Mega Voices, of course.

Best,
Mike



[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-08-2008).]
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Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#237183 - 07/09/08 08:47 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
I found out that the Motif-Rack XS has a GM bank of sounds that are "full" Motif XS sounds. Even though the Motif-Rack XS isn't fully GM compatible, with its separate bank of GM sounds there should be no problem playing SMF's through the Motif-Rack XS. Although, if you manually select sounds from the Preset Banks you will need to choose voices that aren't Mega or SAV voices or you may run into problems when playing SMF's. It might actually be possible to use SAV sounds without any problems. We will have to wait and see.

Best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#237184 - 07/10/08 08:58 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2260
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Gang,
Do not expect the EA ( extended articulation voices) in the XS rack to be like the T2...that are NOT even close. They don't work the same way and I for one was not inpressed with them. I did't even find that they do the same things at all. Very disappointing to me anyways.

It will be interesting to see if others agree.

The XS does have some great sound though. Not enough for me to keep it.

Lee
_________________________
Lee S.

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#237185 - 07/11/08 01:34 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Vadim Offline
Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 302
Loc: MA, USA
will tyros 3 be Musical ? or still just a digital workstation ?

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#237186 - 07/11/08 02:01 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by Vadim:
will tyros 3 be Musical ? or still just a digital workstation ?


Quantized looped base 8 bar (max) Styles 'CD polished' (no live feel) and too repetitious to suit my taste. You be the judge..

If Ketron ever gets the Audya out the door, (by summer of 2015 for sure ) it will be the first and only arranger (besides Lionstrac's Qrranger "now available" I believe .) that brings some diversity and randomness to auto-accompaniment Style playing. On top of that the Audya should have a suitable Live Band sound, feel and groove to it. The cost will be astronomical though and because of it may not sell near as well as Ketron was hoping.

Tyros3?? We'll have to wait and see but most likely it will be just an incremental upgrade to the Tyros2. Maybe Yamaha will surprise us though, you never know.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-11-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#237187 - 07/11/08 04:07 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2260
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
I was told by Ketron sales that the target cost in US for Audya is $4,000 - $4,500
Lee
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Lee S.

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#237188 - 07/11/08 05:26 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by keybplayer:
I found out that the Motif-Rack XS has a GM bank of sounds that are "full" Motif XS sounds. Even though the Motif-Rack XS isn't fully GM compatible


Mike, sorry, but I need to clarify some of these points..

Firstly the Yamaha modules Motif, Motif ES and the Motif XS are FULLY GM1 and GM2 compatible and meet the full midi spec. (I own a Motif ES Rack).

What Yamaha have done is put BETTER sounds into the GM banks, but they still respond to the standard GM bank patches 0-127 as well as all controller and other GM requirements.

In some cases the sounds are even layered, not because Yamaha had to, but because they CHOSE to at the sample level, so users can get superb sounding SMF's even though they are still just the basice GM soundset.

There are several threads about the GM patches at the Motif Forums. And in particular Bad Mister (yeah thats his nick!!) has written several great explanations of this subject. (he is the, or one of the, chief Yamaha techs in the U.S.)

Personally, I always use the higher bank sounds as they have better efx and the ability for insertion effects.

Dennis

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#237189 - 07/12/08 12:05 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Thanks for your reply Dennis.

Since the Motif Racks are basically a Motif keyboard without the keys I assumed the Motif Rack modules were not 'fully' GM compatible since the Motif 'keyboards' aren't, from what I've been told anyway. And guess how I found out about the Motif keyboards (side note: in particular he was talking about the Motif XS keyboard) but would apply to the whole Motif line no doubt - that's right, our friend Phil Clendeninn i.e. Bad_Mister of Yamaha U.S.. Now, he could have blurted out that piece of information and it may have been incorrect (nobody's perfect right?) , but when I called him on it he didn't reverse the remark he made, so I assume he was stating facts and knew what he was talking about. Anyway, if you know something regarding the Motif Racks that proves they are "fully" GM compatible then I don't doubt you Dennis. I haven't read the RACK-XS manual yet and the manual could specifically state that it/they are i.e. "fully" GM compatible. If the Motif Racks ARE then all the better.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-12-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#237190 - 07/12/08 12:31 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
GM and GM2 have nothing much to do with Mega voices. I was informed a while back that if you record an SMF on a T2 or S900, using a style that has Mega voices, if it is played into a Motif with supposedly the same Mega voices, some of the trigger notes (you know, the stuff that is added to the basic notes to give it the extra realism) don't correspond on the Motif.

My idea was to use an S900 at home to generate the guitar parts for SMF's, then play it into a Motif Rack on the gig (don't want to haul two keyboards, no matter HOW light the second one is! ) from my G70. Apparently, this can't be done.

Is there anyone out there that can directly refute this from personal experience (not just reading a manual)..? It would be great if it COULD be done, but from what I've been told, it's a no-go...

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#237191 - 07/12/08 12:48 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Mike,

The proof is in the use!!

I have a multi setup for that purpose, for when I am trialling new smf songs.
It responds to ALL midi commands and works exactly as a GM module should.

I do not use the GM setup for shows as I have other multis for them using higher bank sounds.

Now, without putting words into hi mouth, I suspect Phil was perhaps trying to say the Motif line, and by extension the racks, are not GM sound modules, and he is correct they are not, and they are not setup to be so. But they ARE GM compatible and will respond as I have previously stated when setup for that purpose.

Dennis

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#237192 - 07/12/08 12:57 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Diki,
I suspect there is much more going on "under the hood" in the execution of mega voices.

I have never really dissected a song file created by a Tyros, to reverse engineer so to speak, but I wouldn't mind betting there is also some serious sysex being generated at the same time. Sysex that would ONLY be programmed into the Tyros style data.

There are limited mega voices on the Motif ES and when I have tried to play Yamaha styles (using the OMB software) and trying to utilise these mega voices the style always "glitches" and through a process of elimination I have concluded there is more happening in the CASM section and with the mega voice than is apparent.

If someone can record a simple SMF using a mega voice style, it only needs to be 8 bars, and send it to me I would be interested in attempting to investigate just what is happening. I had a tyros 1, but never thought of actually recording a style to an SMF, but sadly I no longer have it.

Dennis

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#237193 - 07/14/08 05:33 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
"Be part of electronic keyboard history and join us for one of the first UK public showings of the new Yamaha Tyros 3 at the East Sussex National Golf Club & Resort in East Sussex on Wednesday 8th October 2008.

The instrument will be presented by Yamaha International keyboard player/demonstrator Peter Baartmans.".................

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#237194 - 07/15/08 06:44 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
http://music-tyros.com/

New Pics revealed....

what are those two buttons alongside the Mod wheels?...........Hmmmmmm?

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#237195 - 07/15/08 07:17 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
frankieve Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 1663
Loc: Milford, CT, USA
I beleive those buttons are for the Ariabic type scales for instant changes, like the S700
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#237196 - 07/15/08 07:24 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Quote:
Originally posted by frankieve:
I beleive those buttons are for the Ariabic type scales for instant changes, like the S700


Frank I think they are more like the PA800 ASSIGNABLE buttons which can trigger many different funtions on/off/etc?

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#237197 - 07/15/08 05:22 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I have a sinking feeling they might be the same kind of assignable switches they have on the MotifXS, which controls a lot of the SA voices, and has been received very poorly in comparison to the system used on the T2...

But for all here, I sincerely hope NOT...

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#237198 - 07/15/08 05:30 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Diki......Dont you like Jig Saw Puzzles?....why think negative? ....
The T3 will be the best arranger ever created on this planet so far!!!

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#237199 - 07/15/08 06:37 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Not if they put the SA system into it that the MotifXS users hate so much...

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#237200 - 07/26/08 08:13 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742

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#237201 - 07/26/08 08:42 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
Will there be more pieces to the puzzle next Tuesday 29 ?

If so , that would leave 3 more pieces left after , so , if they follow there every 2 week posting then the puzzle would be completed on Sept. 9th.

Then maybe we will know... , I hope !

Later ,
Gary 

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#237202 - 07/27/08 12:00 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
It’s also the second day of the Pakefield Keyboard Festival, and the Tyros 2 was also launched on the second day of the Festival.
I will let you know my personal view of it (And any other new boards launched) in comparison to others when I get back.
Hopefully others who attend will give their views so as to make it balanced.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237203 - 07/27/08 07:36 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
It’s also the second day of the Pakefield Keyboard Festival, and the Tyros 2 was also launched on the second day of the Festival.
I will let you know my personal view of it (And any other new boards launched) in comparison to others when I get back.
Hopefully others who attend will give their views so as to make it balanced.

Bill


Bill sneak a pic plus a nice review...

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#237204 - 07/27/08 09:44 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
Thanks Bill , any info would be great !!

Later ,

Gary 

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#237205 - 07/28/08 03:03 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
http://www.music-tyros.com/


We're getting closer

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#237206 - 07/28/08 03:08 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
Yup !!

They just added new pieces !!

That guitar sounds sweet !

Hey , Donny , are you loosing as much sleep over this as I am? LOL

Later,

Gary 

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#237207 - 07/28/08 06:57 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Gary Im losing more sleep over the NEW ROLAND TOTL Arranger

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#237208 - 07/28/08 08:36 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 573
Loc: Netherlands
Roland Totl aranger,dont believe it . . .

Impuls
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#237209 - 07/28/08 08:59 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10596
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Impuls:
Roland Totl aranger,dont believe it . . .

Impuls



Do you know something we don't?

Ian the Curious
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#237210 - 07/28/08 10:15 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Beakybird Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2166
That guitar sounds luscious. I wish I could play like that!

Beakybird

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#237211 - 07/28/08 11:51 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Quote:
Originally posted by ianmcnll:

Do you know something we don't?

Ian the Curious



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#237212 - 07/28/08 12:11 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
nielshs Offline
Member

Registered: 11/02/04
Posts: 342
Hi Donny

Roland will properly release a new pro arranger in the near future. But only Roland knows the date.

Niels
_________________________
Niels

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#237213 - 07/28/08 01:36 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
That I already know........the sooner the better. I'm ready

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#237214 - 07/28/08 04:08 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Beakybird:
That guitar sounds luscious. I wish I could play like that!

Beakybird


Chances are the person who did that demo didn't play it directly on the Tyros 3 from the keyboard. Most often these demos are put together using professional studio musicians with MIDI guitar interfaces and other MIDI converters so that live musicians are playing live parts that are then recorded using the sounds from the instrument. It's a very deceptive and common practice because even if you were a truly gifted incredible player (which most people aren't), mimicking the part directly from the keyboard would be impossible.

From the demos the Tyros 3 sounds good so far but I'm not hearing it do anything that my Wersi doesn't do much better. Until Yamaha makes an arranger with 1GB+ of factory ROM for the sounds I don't think Wersi has anything to worry about.

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#237215 - 07/28/08 04:09 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
Hey Donny ,

Roland will release there new ToTL after we buy the T-3 .

Either way , we get screwed !! LOL

Later,

Gary 

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#237216 - 07/28/08 05:29 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Quote:
Originally posted by jedi:
Hey Donny ,

Roland will release there new ToTL after we buy the T-3 .

Either way , we get screwed !! LOL

Later, gary


Honestly I aint buying nothing until I really take a deep look into these new offerings for sure....the hype aint working here this time around Next up is all about MY NEEDS & comfort zone period!
Sounds & styles aren't an issue at this time Im happy with what is out there in the G70 & Tyros arrangers....I want ease of use in navigation & quality features eg: VH, search Mp3/Smf/ & I know this won't be there but SEPERATE MODE PLAYING to include "simultaneous" STYLE/SMF/MP3/OTS/
D-beam availability. Tilt screen on the Roland............I'm waiting



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-28-2008).]

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#237217 - 07/28/08 05:37 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
cgiles Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5793
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
Until Yamaha makes an arranger with 1GB+ of factory ROM for the sounds I don't think Wersi has anything to worry about.


Until Wersi's start costing less than a nuclear submarine, I don't think YAHAMA has anything to worry about.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#237218 - 07/28/08 06:05 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by nielshs:
Hi Donny

Roland will properly release a new pro arranger in the near future. But only Roland knows the date.

Niels


I'll remind you guys of these posts in January 2009, after NAMM when Roland STILL will not have released a replacement for the G70, IE a 76 note arranger keyboard.

Maybe a revised KF series set of keyboards?? But no specific arrangers per se.

Dennis

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#237219 - 07/28/08 06:09 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Oh boy! the Crystal Balls are in FULL FORCE again

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#237220 - 07/28/08 06:58 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 13208
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
Chances are the person who did that demo didn't play it directly on the Tyros 3 from the keyboard. Most often these demos are put together using professional studio musicians with MIDI guitar interfaces and other MIDI converters so that live musicians are playing live parts that are then recorded using the sounds from the instrument. It's a very deceptive and common practice because even if you were a truly gifted incredible player (which most people aren't), mimicking the part directly from the keyboard would be impossible.

.


If that is what they are doing, it is just so WRONG !!!
t.
_________________________
t. cool

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#237221 - 07/28/08 06:59 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742

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#237222 - 07/28/08 07:35 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
If that is what they are doing, it is just so WRONG!!!


Agreed Tony! Another possibility is they did it all through MIDI programming using Cubase 4.

Or lastly, that Peter Baartmans is a better keyboard player than we give him credit for.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 07-28-2008).]
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#237223 - 07/28/08 08:14 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by tony mads usa:
If that is what they are doing, it is just so [b]WRONG !!!
t.

[/B]



The manufacturers don't see it as wrong, they see it as marketing at its finest. They figure "so what if you can't play the same thing directly from the instrument", at least if you think you can you'll most likely buy it. This practice is used by nearly every manufacturer and Yamaha is guilty of it too. Peter Baartmans may be a wonderful player but he is sequencing songs on a computer, not any Tyros1, 2, or 3 and making the custom demos for Yamaha on the computer. The Tyros 3 itself is used as nothing more than a sound module. Sad but true.

In some cases many of the built in demos on a keyboard utilize sounds that aren't even present in the factory sound ROM, they are on secondary chips where the demo songs reside. Is it fair for them to do that? Hell no! Once again if you don't know then you're none the wiser and what you don't know won't hurt you.

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#237224 - 07/28/08 09:46 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Oh boy! the Crystal Balls are in FULL FORCE again



Hey Donny, no cloudy balls here!!

(my last post was more "tounge-in-cheek" rather than serious.)

But for all those who ARE waiting for Roland to step up to the plate...fellas, WISHING aint gonna make it happen ya know!!! No matter how hard you try.

D

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#237225 - 07/28/08 10:05 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Wishing don't make anything happen...

You get what you get, when they get it to you. No sooner, no later...

Most of the TOTL stuff operates on about a three year cycle, so most everybody's close to it. But me, I run a MUCH longer cycle than that (unless something blows up!). I can wait a cycle or two more before I NEED a new arranger.

I guess that's the telling question, isn't it? Do you WANT a new arranger, or do you NEED a new arranger..?

Me, I try to be honest with myself (and my bank manager!)... I probably NEED to try to play better, a lot more than I NEED a new arranger.

How about you?

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#237226 - 07/28/08 11:01 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I probably NEED to try to play better, a lot more than I NEED a new arranger.

How about you?


Absolutely +1 to that !!

D

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#237227 - 07/28/08 11:59 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
chony Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1247
Loc: New York
Just heard the new Yamaha sample (number 3); I'm not impressed. I'm still waiting to hear a good standard kit drum set from Yamaha.

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#237228 - 07/29/08 01:47 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
Ensnareyou:
It's truly shocking what you are trying to tell here! Perhaps Wersi uses the methods you describe but there is one thing I know for sure : The Yamaha Tyros(x) demo's are played without external instruments, sequencers of whatever.
Why should they? ..... this is the way Tyros3 sounds and is playable for all real keyboardists.

It's obvious you are a Wersi-fan, but your statement 'Wersi can do it much better' makes me smile.... please wake up!

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#237229 - 07/29/08 03:12 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Ensnareyou:
It's truly shocking what you are trying to tell here! Perhaps Wersi uses the methods you describe but there is one thing I know for sure : The Yamaha Tyros(x) demo's are played without external instruments, sequencers of whatever.
Why should they? ..... this is the way Tyros3 sounds and is playable for all real keyboardists.

It's obvious you are a Wersi-fan, but your statement 'Wersi can do it much better' makes me smile.... please wake up!



Agree with Ensnareyou!
Listen many time the new T3 guitar demo..is a totally sequencing song, drumkits sounds always flat, the same like the T2...

Try to listen better when is chaning the chords and the drum fills...the Strings pad remain with the same chord, all the notes ON and the Guitar continue make the soloist.. No possible on style player...or the numebr 3 mean that you have to use 3 hands??
Wait to play with your hands this same demo and then we can believe if was really a true style.
Wake UP guys...

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#237230 - 07/29/08 03:45 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Ensnareyou:
It's truly shocking what you are trying to tell here! Perhaps Wersi uses the methods you describe but there is one thing I know for sure : The Yamaha Tyros(x) demo's are played without external instruments, sequencers of whatever.
Why should they? ..... this is the way Tyros3 sounds and is playable for all real keyboardists.

It's obvious you are a Wersi-fan, but your statement 'Wersi can do it much better' makes me smile.... please wake up!



You clearly misread my previous post. I did not say Yamaha used external sound modules to try and deceive anyone. The sounds generated in the Tyros 3 demos are sounds from the Tyros 3. How those sounds are played is an entirely different story though. Contrary to what you believe the factory demos are recorded using computer based sequencers such as Logic, Cubase, etc. using live musicians triggering MIDI fitted instruments i.e MIDI Guitar, MIDI wind instruments, Drum triggers and using the Tyros as a sound source. "Why should they" you ask? The reason for doing so is that it's far easier to record a real sounding guitar, drum, or sax part by actually playing a real instrument with a MIDI converter triggering the samples of the Tyros 3 (or any other instrument for that matter). Nearly every manufacturer is guilty of using these techniques and while it may be the sounds from the actual keyboard (or most often a prototype sound module being triggered), the manner in which the demos are played and recorded is quite deceptive. Few people are even aware these techniques are employed and for good reason. Like I said before... what you don't know won't hurt you according to the manufacturers.

If you believe that even the most skilled keyboardist can mimic these demos by playing them live I'd like to see them do it. That would have to be one phenomenal musician and a near impossible task even for the truly gifted. An average keyboardist wouldn't even stand a chance of pulling it off. Sometimes what sounds so simple is much harder than one can imagine.

Wersi did in fact use Cubase for many of their demos but they aren't trying to trick you by saying they don't. Cubase was actually part of the OAS software all the way up until OAS 7. After that Wersi developed their own internal sequencing software. I'm sure many of the OAS 7 demos are still recorded using Cubase.

My reference to Wersi being able to do it much better wasn't out of line. Even if the Tyros 3 has 500MB of sound ROM that ROM has to be spread out for hundreds and hundreds of sounds therefore breaking down to maybe a MB or two per sound if that. The Wersi has nearly 1 GB of factory sounds and using VST's I can utilize sounds that employ 1GB or more for a single sound. If you believe the Tyros 3 can outperform a disk based sample player then give GigaStudio, Halion, or Kontakt a listen and see how well the Tyros sounds hold up in comparison. Here are a few examples:
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/everybodyhappy.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/WhiteGrandDemo9.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/Restitution.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WG/WhiteRock.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/WP/WorrasProphetDemo1.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BG/Adagio_Cantabile_Mid.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BOB/BiggaGiggasBobDemo1.mp3
http://www.sampletekk.com/proddemos/BOB/BiggaGiggasBOBDemo5.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229778.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229777.mp3
http://media.soundsonline.com/ip/mp3/229788.mp3



[This message has been edited by Ensnareyou (edited 07-29-2008).]

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#237231 - 07/29/08 04:35 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
You seem to think the memory-size for sounds makes the difference in quality ? ... I doubt that very much.

The quality of the samples, the SA2, the megavoices, the excellent programmed musical styles, the ease of use, the stable OS etc..... they together make a great machine.

In my view neither the Mediastation nor the Wersi can offer these combined in one box.
Especially the MS 'shines'in non-musical-feel styles, unprofessional recorded demos and Liontracs persists in telling what is wrong with ALL other brands

Sorry guys..... I was not able to suppress my feelings this time

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#237232 - 07/29/08 05:00 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Stay on topic, the "mine is better then yours" attitude serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237233 - 07/29/08 05:02 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Excactly what does Wersi have to do with T3 Coming?

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#237234 - 07/29/08 05:07 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
You seem to think the memory-size for sounds makes the difference in quality ? ... I doubt that very much.

The quality of the samples, the SA2, the megavoices, the excellent programmed musical styles, the ease of use, the stable OS etc..... they together make a great machine.

In my view neither the Mediastation nor the Wersi can offer these combined in one box.
Especially the MS 'shines'in non-musical-feel styles, unprofessional recorded demos and Liontracs persists in telling what is wrong with ALL other brands

Sorry guys..... I was not able to suppress my feelings this time


Being a reasonably accomplished pro audio engineer I can confidently say that given appropriate recording techniques the memory size of the samples does matter. If you believe that Yamaha can make a sample with a few Megabytes that rivals one of several Gigabytes you are sadly mistaken. The reason manufacturers use lower amounts of ROM isn't because they can squeak phenomenal sounds out of a few MB of ROM, it's because it's cheaper for them to do so.

I welcome anyone to bring their Tyros I, II, or 3 (when they get one) over and sit it side by side my Wersi factory sounds or running a large sample VST library and see how well your keyboard fares. I already know which one is going to come out ahead and it won't be the Yamaha. I've owned the best Yamaha has to offer so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference to go by.

I'm curious whether you've actually played a Wersi OAS 7 instrument or a Mediastation? Given your statements I'd venture that you haven't. The Mediastation sounds far better than you and others think it does. Sure the styles on the Mediastation aren't similar to Yamaha's but sound wise the Mediastation is far better than you can imagine.

Wersi has an extremely well integrated and stable OS and I find it far more intuitive than Yamaha's. Even with the numerous features the Wersi has that the Yamaha's lack the Wersi is still a piece of cake to operate. Try one and see for yourself.

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#237235 - 07/29/08 05:14 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
yes, really stable OS: http://youtube.com/watch?v=EjS_BJdHh9E
just look in google how may tyros have OS issue and yamaha seem not interested for make update, they prefer to exit with a new model.
If you remember the first tyros 2 shipment in germany arrival broken to the costumers with a fatal error...maybe you forget the old story...

Free to buy what you better like, but don't me make me laugh when you compare the tyros ROM soundfont to the all other bigger company like Native instruments, Gigastudio and so on..

SA is available in some way under gigastudio too, so I don't who really have discover the hot water.
Tyros sounds really good for what they can offer in one embedded system.
Enjoy ( and buy) what you play.

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#237236 - 07/29/08 05:30 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
Keep in mind this is a 'General Arranger Keyboard Forum' and NOT a (Giga)sampler (tank) or VST plugin forum .... totally different products.
The quality of Native Instruments plugs is outstanding, but no 'earning' of Lionstracs at all, just a 3rd party product.

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#237237 - 07/29/08 05:31 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Yes and TYROS 3 will out sell all others combined worldwide Dedicated legions of loyal fans are preparing to purchase as we speak!
enjoy what you play

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 07-29-2008).]

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#237238 - 07/29/08 05:45 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Keep in mind this is a 'General Arranger Keyboard Forum' and NOT a (Giga)sampler (tank) or VST plugin forum .... totally different products.
The quality of Native Instruments plugs is outstanding, but no 'earning' of Lionstracs at all, just a 3rd party product.


You are right, then remember also that the mediastation is one arranger too.
Is not my fault if now we can hosting in realtine 10 ASIO applicaction and the native Instruments Komplete Synth (demo version, ready to register)are now installed in the code OS as default host engines.
It mean that now I'm able to talk about styles and 3rd party ASIO/VST products in the "General Arranger keyboard forum" too.

Is not my fault if tyros can drive only the internal ROM soundfonts and limited only on this arranger forum.


[This message has been edited by LIONSTRACS (edited 07-29-2008).]

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#237239 - 07/29/08 06:37 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
kla4 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 302
Loc: NL
Thank you!

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#237240 - 07/29/08 09:31 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9204
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by kla4:
Thank you!


Same old Roel..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#237241 - 07/29/08 10:26 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
'Being a reasonably accomplished pro audio engineer I can confidently say that given appropriate recording techniques the memory size of the samples does matter. If you believe that Yamaha can make a sample with a few Megabytes that rivals one of several Gigabytes you are sadly mistaken. The reason manufacturers use lower amounts of ROM isn't because they can squeak phenomenal sounds out of a few MB of ROM, it's because it's cheaper for them to do so.

I welcome anyone to bring their Tyros I, II, or 3 (when they get one) over and sit it side by side my Wersi factory sounds or running a large sample VST library and see how well your keyboard fares. I already know which one is going to come out ahead and it won't be the Yamaha. I've owned the best Yamaha has to offer so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference to go by.

I'm curious whether you've actually played a Wersi OAS 7 instrument or a Mediastation? Given your statements I'd venture that you haven't. The Mediastation sounds far better than you and others think it does. Sure the styles on the Mediastation aren't similar to Yamaha's but sound wise the Mediastation is far better than you can imagine.

Wersi has an extremely well integrated and stable OS and I find it far more intuitive than Yamaha's. Even with the numerous features the Wersi has that the Yamaha's lack the Wersi is still a piece of cake to operate. Try one and see for yourself.'

Ensnareyou i respect your view but your post makes no sense. Firstly you post links to demos done on completely different products than the wersi that you are promoting to make the point that the wersi sounds better than any top end arranger. Thats just nonsense. Saying that it could sound better with professional studio work, and hiring pro musicians to play the styles would be more accurate. Right now i challenge you or anyone with a wersi or a mediastation to come up with a demo produced by the instrument and either by the manuifacturere or a wersi enthusiast that competes with the yamaha or any other top end main arranger manufacturer. Your a sound engineer so you will know that having access to the best sounds in the world does not instantly make the best sounding arranger instrument. I am not even going to debate this point with you because anyone that has spent any time at all using sounds from different sound sources will understand the complexities in making those sounds balance and blend. Secondly the sounds you have promoted GigaStudio, Halion, or Kontakt do not come shipped with either wersi or Mediastation and can be purchased separately and played through a lap top or in a studio without buying a £6000-8000 piece of hardware. However purchaseing these sounds still cannot make your hardware sound better than a professionally produced style from yamaha, korg or Roland. if you doubt that then please provide ONE DEMO OF A STYLE ON EITHER WERSI OR MEDIATSTION THAT COMPETES WITH A T2. PA1X/PA2X OR G70. JUST ONE ! By the way it has to be a manufactureres or enthuiasts style , not a cloned style from another manufacturers stable !!

You say that the mediastaion sounds better than many of us thinks its does. Why do you think that is ? Let me give you a hint. Every demo i have heard from the manufactures (Wersi or Mediastation) sounded inferior to even mid range products from the main three. We are talking very poor style programming , poor balance and generally lack lustre demos.

For example the Korg pa series has 4 variations per style. I think everyone knows that but what makes the styles so live and responsive is the fact that each variation has up to 6 Chord variations programmed into it. So depending on the chords that you play you can achieve up to 6 different accompaniment variations within one style variation ! its not just maths either. Korg actually do programme these chord variations in a musical and flowing/intergrated way. I dont know if Wersi goes into this kind of detail in style programming but you can see how having access to Giga sounds or other VST's sound sources still wont get you to the level of detail that maufacturers of these machines go into to produce great sounding arranger instruments. I for know for sure Mediastation do not. Maybe you can tell us about the wersi ?

The one point i agree with you is the use of studio produced demos that no pro could do on the keyboard itself. Its a dirty tactic to sell keyboards .

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#237242 - 07/29/08 11:20 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
It seems someone didn’t read my earlier post.

If you want to enter into childish “Mine is better then yours” or”I like My styles better then anybody else’s so the rest mush be rubbish” then start ANOTHER thread and DON’T hijack this one.

This thread is about Tyros 3, including PERSONAL opinions of the sounds so far. NOTE the word “PERSONAL” which some people seem to have difficulty understanding. (I suggest some of you get a dictionary out and look it up)

Thanks for reading

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237243 - 07/29/08 01:39 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
chony Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1247
Loc: New York
Mr Lionstracs,

What good is your keyboard if you won't make it available?

I'm still waiting to hear from your when there will be a demo model I can try around New York...

Chony

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#237244 - 07/29/08 02:30 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Ensnareyou:
I did not say Yamaha used external sound modules to try and deceive anyone. The sounds generated in the Tyros 3 demos are sounds from the Tyros 3. How those sounds are played is an entirely different story though. Contrary to what you believe the factory demos are recorded using computer based sequencers such as Logic, Cubase, etc. using live musicians triggering MIDI fitted instruments i.e MIDI Guitar, MIDI wind instruments, Drum triggers and using the Tyros as a sound source. "Why should they" you ask? The reason for doing so is that it's far easier to record a real sounding guitar, drum, or sax part by actually playing a real instrument with a MIDI converter triggering the samples of the Tyros 3 (or any other instrument for that matter). Nearly every manufacturer is guilty of using these techniques and while it may be the sounds from the actual keyboard (or most often a prototype sound module being triggered), the manner in which the demos are played and recorded is quite deceptive. Few people are even aware these techniques are employed and for good reason.
If you believe that even the most skilled keyboardist can mimic these demos by playing them live I'd like to see them do it. That would have to be one phenomenal musician and a near impossible task even for the truly gifted. An average keyboardist wouldn't even stand a chance of pulling it off. Sometimes what sounds so simple is much harder than one can imagine.


I don't know...This guy does alright without the need for any midi guitar or wind controllers!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfswO0jQOfc&feature=related

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#237245 - 07/29/08 03:36 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Miden
Have a look in the Yamaha manual and sales blurb, and you will find all the Megavoices have been recorded using the appropriate Midi controller. (Midi Guitar Pickup for Guitars, Midi wind controller for wind instruments etc)
Personally I couldn’t care less how it’s done, providing it gives the impression of the real instrument when I play it on a keyboard. (Sounds still have a long way to go, which is why there is still a selection of keyboards out there, and it is still the individuals choice as to which personally gives them most pleasure)
I am sure glad everybody is different. (Diversity is the spice of life)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237246 - 07/29/08 05:27 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
I think the main point Yamaha is emphasizing with the Tyros3 sounds is the sounds themselves, and not necessarily the chops (or method) behind the playing. Whether it's done by means of a MIDI guitar, Cubase, or Peter Baartmans , Yamaha is trying to get the listener to hone in on the "sound" that the Tyros3 is producing, whether AC.Grand Piano, Irish Bag Pipe, or Jazz Guitar, or whatever. They of course want the sounds to sound as natural as can be to their native environment i.e. the real instrument itself being played by a real person, but if it can't be humanly achieved they need to fudge a little (or a lot ) to get it done needless to say. And it costs Yammie a whole lot less too than if they had hired world class musicians to attempt to do it. If the Jazz Guitar was done by a real person using a MIDI guitar, the session player would have commanded a premium price for his work and must have cost Yammie a pretty penny just for that one demo alone. More than likely though is was done by skilled software engineers using Cubase.

Yamaha has not really deceived anybody by doing this though. They have put up information saying as much i.e. that the demos can't necessarily be interpreted as something the user himself can actually accomplish when playing the instrument himself - that is, whatever the keyboard instrument might happen to be; in this case the Tyros3.

Giving the listener the opportunity to hear the sounds at their professional playing best can give him or her the inspiration and desire to try and attain those same ideals. Of course, 99.99999% of the population could never really attain the precise perfection that these demos demonstrate. Nevertheless practice does make perfect; and trying to attain those goals can only go in helping the player's own natural playing ability in the long run. In other words, it may be a possibility that someone on this very forum could be the next Peter Baartmans or even exceed Mr. Baartman's playing ability if he or she has the desire and dedication (and the chops) to attain or exceed that specific goal and ideal.

Another thing. We need to lighten up a tad because, as we all know, Nigel is looking over our shoulders and we don't want to upset him to the point of doing something rash now, do we?

As far as the sounds on the T3.. The AC Piano - is 'pretty good', the Irish Bag Pipe - 'I guess you need to be a full blooded Irishman to appreciate it to its fullest extent eh?' . I would rather have had a brilliant Scottish Bag Pipe sample though since it is the sound that is so well known throughout the world, instead of what they gave the T3. And finally the Jazz Guitar - 'sounds pretty good also, although nothing new or beyond what the T2 already brings to the table in my humble opinion. I would need to hear all of them in person before I make my final determination of their real worth though. Same goes for all the other voices in the new yammie as well.

Best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#237247 - 07/29/08 10:50 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
All I got to say is... the first day I hear some demos by the Wersi or MS that totally blows away the T2 demos, or my G70, I'll go straight out and buy one. After over two years of listening to the same drivel, over and over and over again, all I can say is...

I still got my G70

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#237248 - 07/29/08 11:17 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
What’s a Wersi got to do with a Tyros 3 thread? (Start another thread if you want to talk Wersi)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237249 - 07/30/08 05:00 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4643
Loc: West Virginia
Guys..., seriously, it's no secret that the keyboard makers have been (using outboard gear) to record the internal demos for years. What people seem to be missing is what one of the main reasons the demo button is there for.., it's there for the "salesman". Many music stores don't have experienced staff to demo keyboards. So they just press the demo button.

This is NO SECRET..., they've been doing this for years now. Yes, Ensnareyou is right about some sounds not even residing in the presets. Hell, my old PSR-550 had a more modern sound that used a (tweeked version) of the hip hop kit, BUT that tweeked version wasn't available as a preset kit to just choose from as a normal voice. It was only available by going into edit mode for that style-and there were some limitations too. This wasn't something you read about in the manual either.

**If you really think the makers are recording these awesome demos using the onboard patches by triggering them manually from the keybed itself---then boy do I have some nice ocean-front property to sell ya here in West Virginia** It's not just arrangers.., it's also done with the major workstations too.

Why do all these topics have to turn into peeing contests? Why can't you guys just accept that many of you have different opinions regarding keyboards.., and WHY do so many of you go ON and ON about one of the most SUBJECTIVE parts about a keyboard (THE SOUNDS). You want to argue, then argue about FEATURES.., why rip into the sound quality when cleary EVERYONE'S ear is going to be different. These constant peeing contests really make this a nasty place at times, and the topics just go to hell because of them.

**Also think about this... How often have you read about "real musicians" being used to record those great styles on your arrangers. Do you think they're all sitting in a circle, passing the keyboard around to each other? They're using outboard gear to trigger the internal samples. If they do this with the styles..., they're clearly doing it with the onboard demos too**


[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-30-2008).]
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#237250 - 07/30/08 10:59 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Bill... start your own forum if you want to act as moderator.

In the meantime, just as you feel the right to chime in on any topic with your Wersi chat, you can expect other members to do exactly the same...

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#237251 - 07/30/08 11:43 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki

If it was a Wersi chat I would agree, but it is a Tyros 3 chat, and apart from replying to a statement by yourself (Which had no connection to the topic) where in this thread did I even mention Wersi.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237252 - 07/30/08 12:34 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Do you really need me to go through all the other threads that WEREN'T about Wersi, and detail where you chimed in with Wersi opinion or fact?

Why not sit back, relax, and wait for Nigel to decide whether or not to enforce strict 'on topic' behavior...?

Just don't hold your breath!

I might also point out that every arranger is COMPARED to all other arrangers. You can't really talk about one without a comparison to others, otherwise there is no reference, no comparison, no opinion. So lighten up, will you?!

Or NEVER mention the Wersi in anything other than a Wersi titled thread... Got to at least follow your own rules, shouldn't you?

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#237253 - 07/30/08 02:54 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
This is the main difference; I compare the sounds of arrangers with real instruments, (The only true comparison) not other arrangers.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237254 - 07/31/08 05:24 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
rattley Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 768
Loc: Punta Gorda Florida USA
This place NEVER changes.....Ugh!!!!

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#237255 - 07/31/08 11:56 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4904
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by rattley:
[B]This place NEVER changes/B]


Fortunately

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#237256 - 08/01/08 11:05 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by rattley:
This place NEVER changes.....Ugh!!!!


Only person that can change it is YOU...

Don't like the topics, don't like the tone..? Post a more fascinating topic, post with a better tone.

Or just bitch about it... Your choice.

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#237257 - 08/02/08 02:20 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I probably NEED to try to play better, a lot more than I NEED a new arranger.

How about you?


Very wise thought, Diki.
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#237258 - 08/02/08 07:34 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Jørgen Sørensen Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/99
Posts: 361
Loc: Denmark
Hi

Quote:
Originally posted by rattley:
This place NEVER changes.....Ugh!!!!


Apparantly not.

IMO one problem in this group is "thread hijacking".

No matter the original thread subject a number of members here starts riding their hobby when the thread reaches message #10. Just take this thread as an example.

IMO if anyone wants to discuss e.g. "Wersi" then THEY ought to start a "Wersi" thread; instead of hijacking a running thread.

Just my opinion!

Have a nice day
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

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#237259 - 08/02/08 03:31 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Mind you, you don't see Jørgen speaking up when a Roland thread gets hijacked!

There are technical, focused fora, and there are GENERAL arranger fora. Things tend to get general, on a 'general' forum...

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#237260 - 08/02/08 06:51 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
rattley Offline
Member

Registered: 11/14/99
Posts: 768
Loc: Punta Gorda Florida USA
My thoughts exactly!

Not bitchin' just my humble observation, which is shared by others. I do learn a lot here. Sometimes the personalities get overbearing. I'll say it again................

"This place never changes"

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#237261 - 08/03/08 12:10 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Nigel Online   wise
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6202
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by rattley:
"This place never changes"


It's not this role of this place to change. It is up to the personalities that post here to change. I am not the "personality police". And I hate to think what that role would require. It would be a moderator's nightmare to have to try to censor every posting based on .... ummm I don't even know what that sort of censorship would be based on. And I know people would become very offended if I did start censoring postings in general. Just show some maturity and simply ignore postings from people that are unable to act maturely. It's the same as if you were talking together in any public place. You wouldn't even bother to engage someone in conversation that seemed to be acting like a jerk, you would just ignore them and walk on by. Do the same here as well and it will avoid a lot of unecessary aggravation.

[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 08-03-2008).]

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#237262 - 08/03/08 01:54 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Jørgen Sørensen Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/99
Posts: 361
Loc: Denmark
Hi Diki

Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Mind you, you don't see Jørgen speaking up when a Roland thread gets hijacked!


Right! 'cause I dont read Roland threads.

I might be naive; but I believed that the discussions were to stick to the thread subject (or rather close connected); and not anything else.

IMO we would all benefit if we all try to keep the discussion on the thread subject.

And if we want to discuss a new subject then start a new thread with this subject.

Just my opinion!!!
Jørgen

PS: Maybe I should read Rolands threads (and all other threads). As the thread subject apparantly is only a vague reflection of the thread content; I might find something interesting in ALL threads.

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

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#237263 - 08/03/08 02:59 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
chony Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1247
Loc: New York
Quote:
Originally posted by Jørgen Sørensen:
Maybe I should read Rolands threads (and all other threads). As the thread subject apparantly is only a vague reflection of the thread content; I might find something interesting in ALL threads.




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#237264 - 08/03/08 06:17 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4224
Loc: Michigan
These threads take course due to the lull in the arranger marketplace. Boring these days.....
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Korg PA3X / Yamaha P125 / Yamaha MX61 / QSC 8.2s / Zed mixers / Blue mics / Roland BR800

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#237265 - 08/03/08 07:02 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40742
Oh No!!! Zuki your not bored with your PA800....its been a while

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#237266 - 08/03/08 08:44 AM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by Jørgen Sørensen:
As the thread subject apparantly is only a vague reflection of the thread content; I might find something interesting in ALL threads.



True that, Jørgen... In fact, it's the main reason I read ALL the threads here (despite only using a Roland). If I want to hear and talk about nothing but Roland's, I go to Roland-Arranger.com. As you, no doubt, go to the Yamaha specific, high population fora.

But when I want to talk and read about arrangers in GENERAL (see the connection? ), I come here. As do most of us that feel that way. And let's face it, if the majority of the Yamaha owners here really WANTED nice tight topics, and no other opinion, viewpoints and discussion, well, they'd be at those other fora in the first place, wouldn't they?

So, let me get this straight... You want to come to a forum where Yamaha's are only a PART of the membership. And you'd like to talk about the T3. But you don't want ANY talk on a T3 thread from other viewpoints, other opinions, and comparisons to any other arranger?

Best of luck, mate

The day that Yamaha owners don't feel welcome to comment on a Roland thread, or Ketron owners fell they are not welcome to interject opinion in a Korg thread, this place will be much the poorer for it... IMO

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#237267 - 08/03/08 12:39 PM Re: TYROS 3 ITS COMING SOON !!
Jørgen Sørensen Offline
Member

Registered: 10/24/99
Posts: 361
Loc: Denmark
Hi Diki

I read many (app. 10) forums each day (English, German, Danish) and I feel welcome in all these forums. But I do not have the time to read all threads in all these forums (Remember that only the Danish of these are in my native tounge. Takes a little longer for me to read the discussions).

My point is: If the thread subject reflected the discussions it would easier for me AND ANYBODY ELSE to find the threads to read if I/they for some reason have to give priority to some threads. Just like reading only some parts of a newspaper based on the article heading!

Still just my opinion.

Best wishes
Jørgen

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The Unofficial YAMAHA Keyboard Resource Site

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