http://www.korg.de/?popup=9785&no_cache=1

click KEYBOARDS>

Pa800 Guitarren modus

Pa800 Workshop

one of the best arranger Kb demos Ive seen yet.

Pa2x pro also.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-12-2008).]

Can't they do some of this stuff in English?

It would be nice to here what he is saying...
Lee

Hi Donny,
Sensational demo. Makes me wish my German was a bit better & my eyesight.haahaa I couldn't quite pick up on some of the button presses on the guitar mode screen..

Guitar mode is a sensational guitar recording function . A guitar strum via a single note. I've just about worked my way thru the basics & the demo has filled in a couple of gaps . Wish it was in English.
The manual lacks explicit details on how to go about it. The info's there , just hard putting 2&2 together.

Thanks for that.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dnj:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-12-2008).]

The thing that I have found a bit disappointing in the guitar mode, is the lack of operations for electric guitar.

Granted, the acoustic stuff is excellent, but nothing electric wise, eg overdrive/distortion etc.

Dennis

T

The guitars amaze me in the styles I use. Just beginning to explore the marvels of this board

Yes Zuki, they are really good...

Sorry I was not criticising what is available, just the lack of electric guitar support in guitar mode..

Who knows , it might come in the next big update for the PA2x???

Cheers
Dennis

Rikki your very welcome glad you enjoyed it.

Apparently, only SOME of the PA800 and PA2X Pro's styles even use this mode yet... How long has it been out?

Isn't it about time to start screaming at Korg to re-work ALL the styles to take advantage of this amazing tool? And maybe re-visit the cream of some of the older styles too, which would probably gain new life with an injection of realism on the guitar part...

A style feature like this (and things like the alternative patterns for different chords, etc.) is only as good as it's application. Features on paper, but not used in ALL the styles are of lesser value, IMO...

Hi Diki,
Guitar Mode is only about 6 months old. It was part of the 1.51 o.s./1.50 resources upgrades. At the time they added 12 new guitar sounds ( Real Guitars)
& revamped 40 or so styles.

It's been mentioned there's another upgrade in the works?? So who knows.
I for one, am not complaining.

The functions designed to make recording guitar style tracks easier. Basically it is as simple as the guy doing the demo , made it out to be. At least as far as strumming goes.
No chords involved ( except for Intro's/Endings that have a chord progression). Once that method is worked out, it's simple enough.
Single notes & arpeggio's I'm still working my way thru.

The biggest downfall is there's no English Demo. Basically it's fairly straight forward, but trying to make sense of it via the manual can be a bit daunting.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

Isn't it about time to start screaming at Korg to re-work ALL the styles to take advantage of this amazing tool? And maybe re-visit the cream of some of the older styles too, which would probably gain new life with an injection of realism on the guitar part...

Hi Donny,
certainly did.
After watching it a dozen times, my German's improved & so's my eyesight. haahaa
I finally managed to work out what screens he was using for a couple of the edits.

thanks again
best wishes
Rikki

Either it IS easy enough for the average user to understand, in which case, it should NOT have been hard for Korg to quickly redo all the styles to use it, or it IS complicated, but even so, Korg (as the inventors) should have had enough time in SIX MONTHS to revamp more of the styles since they released it....

What you are saying is that, for six months, Korg haven't revamped a single one. I would have thought, just to move them off the shelves, re-doing the entire library should be considered by Korg as an investment, not a chore for the more gifted users to HAVE to do

Let's face it, if it were that easy, the users would have done it by now...

The Demo is very good and the guitarmode is impressing. But I see no difference to the guitarmode on the Roland keyboards. i think it is the same.
On the G70 I can make guitarstrums for accompanimenttracks in the same way.

Seems that is orks very mych like the VST Real Guitar.

Isn't it also possible on the G70 to use the guitar mode "live"? I guess you could on the PA2/PA800, but not easily and quickly.

So if it can be done on the g70, maybe Korg can look to adding this in the future.

Dennis

Roland and Korg's Guitar modes are utterly different beasts...

Korg is not primarily a realtime thing, but more a tool for creating authentic strum patterns for styles. Roland, OTOH, is strictly realtime ONLY (or record into an SMF), you can't trigger the picking patterns from a style. Yes, you can record the pattern into a style, but you lose the authentic guitar voicings and inversions as standard NTT's (note transposition tables) are used from that point onwards, rather than the guitar specific NTT's used while Guitar Mode is active.

One can only hope Roland find a way to combine Guitar Mode AND style mode, because essentially, it's utterly useless as is for styles, unlike Korg's version. Just one in a long list of brilliant ideas that Roland got ALMOST right!

Hi Diki ,
we won't know if they've revamped any additional styles till the next major upgrade.

The styles sound good as they are anyway, it's not like they're unuseable because they haven't been recorded in Guitar Mode.

I gather they've given us Guitar Mode so we can create guitar tracks more easily. Instead of having to record 4 to 6 notes for a guitar strum, we can do it with a single note, and not have to worry about voicing it correctly. Done automatically.
ie hit an a2 you get a down strum with 4 strings
b2 will give an up strum with 4 strings
a#2 is a down mute with 4 strings
g2 is a full up slow strum
etc etc
Can be recorded in realtime as the guy demonstrated, or can be recorded in steptime via the event note editor.

Single notes can also be recorded , this is done by strings ie
a3 represents i String (e)
g3 iiString (b)
etc
c3 viString (e)
c#3 is the recognized Chord Root
d#3 is Chord fifth
I've managed to create some simple arpeggio's, still need some further figuring out as to where the capo fits in.
Variations, fills, intro's & endings without chord progressions can be created fairly easily.
Intro's & Endings with chord progressions need some additional notes added which can easily been done in event list edit mode.
It appears to be the only time you have to set the correct Key & Chord type.
So once it's set , to just say CMaj
4 bar intro of C Am Dm G7
I just have to insert the following notes at least 1 tick before I want the chord to change.ie (note)
1st beat of bar 1 C-1 velocity of 1 = Cmaj
last beat of bar 1 A-1 velocity of 8 = Amin
last beat of bar 2 D-1 velocity of 8 = Dmin
last beat of bar 3 G-1 velocity of 3 = G7

The Notes c-1 thru to b-1 are the chords
The velocities give you the chord types.
24 different chord types recognized.
Anything from simple majors & minors thru to
maj7th with sus4,
Major w/o 3rd & 5th ( whatever that means??)
Fairly comprehensive .

For me at least , rather interesting stuff.

It will be great for owners when the guys who created the original dvd set for the korgs , release the next one. http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35600&sid=17b374c01ea8 c6e92b75c3eaa355204e

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-13-2008).]

Actually Diki, I reckon a combination of the 2 methods would be the way to go...Roland's because you CAN play it live, and Korg's becasue you can use it in a style..

There are times when playing live, I could see Roland's method being very useful and musical.

D

Hi Rikki,

Do you miss it not having electric guitar (overdrive/distortion etc etc) capability?

Also from what I read at korg forums, the guys who made the DVD's are making the guitar mode one available to existing DVD owners ONLY...

So if all you want is a DVD on guitar mode, tough, you gotta buy them all.

Personally, I don't need the other DVD's as I know my way around the PA's pretty well, but the guitar one might be a bit interesting, not that it would take that long to figure it out.

It does seem pretty straightforward after a recent play-around with it I had.

The DVD would be interesting. BUT not if it comes at the cost of the rest of the series too.

Dennis

The thing about guitar parts is... unless it's a solo, I've got other, more important things to do (more important to me, anyway! ) than take up all my attention just to get a strumming pattern going. Guitar strums and picking patterns are accompaniment, NOT the featured sound most of the time. As such, I need them in the style section, NOT on the keyboard to HAVE to play...

This is where Roland dropped the ball. It's actually not too tough to get a good strumming pattern, but that's both of your hands used up! Go off to another solo sound, and there goes your guitarist

Roland have some incredibly useful ideas wrapped up in this gizmo... Firstly, it's the first chord recognition system I've played that took any notice of WHERE on the keyboard you played the chord. Most regular arrangers just figure out the chord and bass note (but NOT inversion), but this actually works out how high up the keyboard you play the trigger chord (and what inversion it is), and gives you a chord in the appropriate part of the neck. Brilliant! Finally, a good reason for an extended chord recognition area - guitar chords YOU chose in realtime whether they are 'open string' nut position or 'full barré' up the neck.

Now, if only they take that concept, and use it for OTHER accompaniment sounds (horns high or low, piano chords that move around a bit more, bass lines in the basement or upstairs etc.) we would start to see a quantum improvement in control over your accompaniment, and less repetitive patterns.

It also introduces (for Roland, at least) the ability to have performance 'noises' like fret squeak and guitar knocks be added to your playing in an SA-like manner. Again, something Roland should keep developing for other sounds and techniques...

As I've been saying for a while, I don't think we have anywhere NEAR tapped MIDI for it's expressive possibilities. More complex chord behaviors like this, and positional and inversion recognition capabilities could make for a far more 'musical' accompaniment than we have at the moment, without resorting to audio loop slice technology, which, although very good sounding at what it does, cannot do anything more than what was recorded in the first place. MIDI offers the ability to edit, change sounds, change almost anything with far greater flexibility than audio...

Yamaha's Mega technology was the first breakthrough, and still sounds amazing to me. Korg have started a new era with it's Guitar Mode, and Roland, once they tie Guitar Mode to the style section, have a very interesting system too. To be honest, it's things like this, that have turned what used to be one of the weakest areas of arranger sound into one of it's best features - great, accurate guitar strumming and picking. And it's things like this that are the future for arrangers, IMO, not dead end technology like audio loops.

Something the USER can edit and change to taste, not 'take it or leave it' audio loops. Try to imagine how good an arranger could sound, if accurate chord and pattern techniques for each instrument (keys, guitars, horns and strings) were as good as what just guitar parts are now!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 06-13-2008).]

Hi Dennis,
personally I don't miss electric guitar capability, the styles I play round with don't really use them.
Hopefully they will expand the feature for users who do use them, like yourself.

I don't own the earlier dvd's either, by the time they came out, I'd pretty much sorted out the functions in the korg that interested me. Same with guitar mode,I've almost sussed it out.It's mainly the single notes & the capo that still have me a tad confused.
What I'm actually doing at the moment is, record various single notes ( in guitar mode) as a style track. I don't mean the strum notes, but the actuall single notes used for arpeggio's etc. the c3 to a3 range.
Next record a short sequence in the korgs sequencer using the style. Then use the sequencers event list editor to see what notes have actually been recorded.
The single notes recorded in Guitar style mode , will not be the same notes when recorded as a midifile. Just have to get my head around this one if I want to record an arpeggio in guitar mode.
One thing I was happy to find out was that RX noises are automatically created as part of the strum. That's the thing that grabbed my attention in the video clip. I was under the impression they had to be added seperately, but appears not to be the case afterall. Don't know if it adds them to single notes though. Suppose I'll find out soon enough when I start experimenting with them.
Personally I wouldn't have a clue where to add them, so I started studying some of the psr megavoice guitar styles. I also hope to find them an interesting source for guitar rhythms.
I'm not terribly musical, so I need a source to copy ie when to strum up or strum down, or use a strum mute etc.
It's going to be interesting.

As you said buying the earlier set just to get the new one, wouldn't be worth it. We'll just have to plod on and figure it out ourselves haahaa.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[b]Hi Rikki,



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-13-2008).]

Hi Diki,
definately sounds like korg & roland need to pick up on each others guitar mode functions.

If we have it for style & realtime mode we may end up with the Near perfect arranger.

We can only dream, but then what would we have to complain about. haa haa

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

Trust me... I'll find SOMETHING

Yes Diki,
Roland are a very clever company, so I cannot see them leaving this techonolgy alone.. I reckon they WILL improve on both it's sound and functionality in the future...

As for Korg, the PA2x is so good now, about the only thing I can see them improving IS the guitar mode, and perhaps a full set of re-tweaked styles using it.

Dennis

Hi Rikki, yes we will but sometimes plodding is good, you get to see the hedges and butterflies as you go!!

Dennis

Just load Real Guitar http://www.musiclab.com/products/realgtr_info.htm into your keyboard/module, and you can then use it in styles and/or on the keyboard.
It will also make both the onboard Korg Guitar mode, and the Roland Guitar mode sound pretty basic. (I doubt you would bother using them anymore)
Enjoy life, Play music

Bill

Unfortunately, Real Guitar does not have electric guitars.

Ian

But Real Strat does. http://www.musiclab.com/products/realstrat_info.htm

Bill

So one would have two purchase two guitar programs?

Should have been combined.

Ian

If you want the best, you buy the dedicated article, not a jack of all trades, besides Real Strat came out about 2 years after Real guitar, and R & D cost money, although I suppose Yamaha might give the Tyros 3 away free so that you don’t have to spend any money to get the extra sounds.
Only Joking

Bill

I hope they give one to me.

Only serious.

Ian

I beg to differ

The Chord Sequencer was one of the most revolutionary improvements in realtime arranger operation ever made. Roland dropped it.

The Full Band/Small Combo/Bass & Drums selection buttons was one of the most useful style modifier realtime controls ever made. Roland dropped it.

The list goes on and on. So just because this COULD be a great idea (with work), it doesn't mean Roland are a) going to finish it, and b) not going to drop it when and if they do...

Diki, I had forgotten about those things, not that I have used them personally, but going by the glowing accounts, Roland was remiss in removing them.

Well maybe its only Yamaha and Korg that are the clever companies and continue developing their keyboard features until they are fully expanded.

And THEN move onto the next model.

Dennis

Easy for you to say, Bill.

Do you have these plug-ins? Have you got them to work seamlessly with your styles? Can you gig with them (or don't you mind the down time while they load)? Can you use them in an improvised set, or do you have to load them in advance?

And if you DO have and use these plug-ins, how about a demo or two? If they are THAT much better, and remain practical (and that's the issue for most non-home players), I would have thought you'd be all over showing us how superior the Wersi's can sound...

There's a lot of theoretical advice chucked around in here from Wersi owners that simply repeat the marketing hype, rather than find out for themselves whether an advertised feature actually works in practice as well as it SEEMS to in theory. I would be very surprised to not find that the majority of OAS users have simply got B4 and a GIGA grand piano on their systems and little else. All this potential, for a piano that might be just a LITTLE better than my G70's ROM one, and a B3 sim because Wersi, of all people can't make a better Hammond sound internally...

Where are the OAS users using BFD or DFH2, Scarbee Bass, Ivory, Colossus, Atmosphere, Trilogy, Stylus RMX, Vienna Symphonic Cube, Real Strat, Real Guitar, and all the other amazing streaming libraries of undisputedly better sounds than ANY arranger's internal set...?

Either still scratching their heads over the manual, or have given up once they realized that the marketing hype doesn't translate to the ability to use all this at the same time (if at all), given the state of computer technology, today, is my guess. They certainly don't post much, do they?

What WAS the last USER Wersi demo posted that used much in the way of OAS? Anybody even remotely impressed?

I'm sorry, Bill... I'm not trying to be TOO cruel here, but instead of pointing others here to some 'theoretical' answer to their problem, why not tell them that YOU use what you propose, it works GREAT, and here's a few demos to show you how good it can be. Oh, and yes, you CAN use it without a couple of minutes load time (or longer).

Now THAT'S useful information....

No, it's probably because I don't have either of those that you haven't been made aware of the boneheaded decisions that they, down the years, have surely made!

From having read a few, occasionally more critical reviews of K & Y arrangers, I DO know that mistakes HAVE been made, features dropped, and user favorites are no longer with us...

But few seem as willing to criticize their own arranger as I am mine. It's not that they HAVE no flaws, it's just that some feel that they might 'lose face' by admitting what IS wrong with what they chose to buy. Me, I've no problem with it. I didn't design the damn thing, I just bought one. It's not a grandchild, or a beloved pet. It's a bloody keyboard, that's all! Just like all the other bloody keyboards I have

It doesn't make me sound any worse, or play any worse to admit what flaws DO exist in my arranger. I just wish more of us could see this, and get a more honest dialog going about real arranger use and problems that arise. But we are all so tied up in bragging that only WE have the 'best arranger' that serious flaws, boneheaded manufacturer changes and just plain silliness get a free pass, and the manufacturers continue to go ahead in the knowledge that we don't care, and even if we did, it would kill us to publicly admit it

Ian should be eternally grateful that Yamaha DON'T make a 76... Or I might have one, and all the dirty little secrets would be out in public by now

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 06-14-2008).]

Diki...I have continually criticized all my arrangers & I have owned many....they ALL have flaws...but some flaws can be manipulated with workarounds to the USERS NEEDS...lets take my current ax....Yamaha S900.........

terrible angled display, in a sitting position its almost impossible to view while playing needs a manual tilt at the very least...the 3k had the same display BUT a different body design which made the entire unit angle upwards a bit more.

Toy like VH that sounds like a KAZOO, breaks up, very unnatural sounding but with a bit of tweaking it could be used very sparingly....but in NO WAY is PRO Quality compared to TC Helicon, or Digitech

MFD is totally useless for live stage navigation because it doesn't save some parameters like Transpose.

Rear inputs/AC are in the worst position possible (middle) for someone who uses a APEX stand.....these should be extreme right or left.

USB should have FRONT ACCESS


But I make it work for me somehow......by passing all the above.

I really would like to try a SD5 one of the few I haven't gotten my hands on yet but Don Mason loves his he tells me BUT can you find one around here ? NO!!


so there Diki....I said it & I'm sticking to it!!

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-14-2008).]

But you and I are more the exception than the rule around here, Donny...

Most are FAR more willing to criticize someone ELSE's arranger than their own, and let's face it, they are in a much better position to knowledgeably criticize their OWN arranger than anything else!

Yes Diki......but with no harm intended to anyone...some don't even know any better either. Or some never use some of the featured flaws others complain about so its a of no consequence to them.
I'm waiting .....I'm hopeful,....
I'm curious to see what's next!

Yep... Sometimes I feel like the one-eyed man in the land of the blind!

It's not that I am THAT great a player (if any good at all!), but so many arranger users are one finger chord players, barely getting the melody and chords right, or just fairly basic players. And issues that prevent you being able to whiz around with BOTH hands when you feel like it, or chord recognition systems that don't account for more elaborate passing chord systems, or ways to defeat chord recognition while you chromatacize your little brains out all over simpler changes, just get blank stares and complete non-recognition that there IS a problem!

But for more advanced players, there are a myriad issues that don't trouble basic players, but getting them to acknowledge that, although they may not be a problem to them YET, if they improve a bit more (and who doesn't want to improve any? ) they WILL sooner or later face these problems is like pulling teeth

'It works for me NOW, so how could there possibly be anything wrong?' is the mantra. Well, I'm here to tell you that, get any better than you are NOW, and you WILL find problems with these supposedly 'perfect' arrangers!

Aww c'mon Diki and Donny, are you two serious?? You guys are joking right?

You don't actually BELIEVE some of that stuff you write, do you??? If you do, and are serious in those comments you blokes must think you are gods gift to the arranger/keyboard world..

Dennis

Well,Dennis, I'm God's gift to nobody! Trust me on that one.

But what issue are you taking offense from, now? Do you honestly believe that there AREN'T players who have no use for advanced features..? Talk to Roland, who dropped one of the most useful things an advanced player could possibly want, because, according to Roland, nobody used it! Draw your own conclusions.

It's pretty obvious, from many, many replies about issues with arranger operation that few have the slightest clue about, that an awful lot of players are tightly restricted to basic playing techniques. Basic left hand chords, right hand melody, not much else. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, but it IS a fact, IMO...

Now, there are a plethora of other arranger features designed for more advanced players, but because of the emphasis on non-players, basic players, and 'home' players, these are often afterthoughts of the design team, and often poorly implemented, and often dropped because they only work if you ARE an advanced player....

As Ian keeps pointing out, the VAST majority of arrangers are sold to 'home' users who can barely play, or are intermediate at best. Let's face it, where do you think the whole arranger backlash and reputation comes from? Advanced, 'pro' players? Dream on...

Why you are so upset is puzzling. Either you are an advanced player, and know about the issues with advanced features (or the lack of them!), or you are not, and just getting worked up at the thought that there MIGHT be someone who needs more than you do. I can't figure it out...

Look, I can talk until I'm blue in the face about issues that prevent you being able to do much except input chords with your left hand on an arranger. An utter waste for someone with a strong left hand technique. Understandable from people that primarily play arrangers, learned on arrangers, and wouldn't know what to do with that LH if their arranger quit and they had to use a WS, but sometimes it would be nice to hear from someone with the same problems, rather than the knee-jerk reaction of a mostly defensive group with a chip on their shoulder about having to play a keyboard that has (probably rightly ) earned quite a bit of disrespect from the musical community.

Look, if you have NO issues with your arranger of choice, good for you! Enjoy what you have. But don't get bent out of shape if someone else isn't as satisfied as you are...

I don't think I'm God's gift to anyone. I think the arranger is God's gift to us...! I just wish that He would spend a little more time and energy on the more advanced features (like Guitar Mode, how this thread got started), and the heck with those that don't use them or understand them. SOME of us do.

Diki, I am not really UPSET at anything.. But I do get a bit miffed when sweeping generalisations are made which seem to encompass everyone on SZ (but on the other hand, I probably overreacted because you more than likely didn't intend it that way)...

I am the first to bitch about a keyboard if I think its lacking in certain areas, and I already have done so on this and other forums...

I suppose if I HAD to classify myself it would be as an advanced player (over 25 years live performing, bands, duos and solo, theory to grade 5 [A.M.E.B.Australia], national championships when I was a kid) so I figure I know a bit about playing, and I am only too aware of the shortcomings of the arranger boards...

I reckon they are a LONG way short of where they should be, considering the other offerings of the big three, pathetic really!!

I personally think the chord sequencer would have been just about THE most important tool on an arranger board..
Sadly I never got to try it out for myself.

I owned the PA1x before the PA2x, and really, apart from losing a few unusable TC Helicon settings, I cannot think of anything else they have dropped, only added to it.

Even the fills issue stayed pretty much the same, so it wasn't dropped, but they sure could IMPROVE them!!!

My apologies, truly, if I came across too critical, it was not intended.. I just get tired of being lumped in with other people..

I guess a lot of that is my fault as I don't really speak much about what I do or where I am playing, so how are people supposed to know where you are at.

I hope that explains a little bit about my previous post, and where my head is at on this issue.

Sorry if I rambled a bit.

Dennis

No problem Dennis...

Sometimes I have to make sweeping generalizations to get a point over. The trick is to not include yourself in them if you don't think it applies to you! Especially in these 'either/or' things. 'Either' you are a good player, in which case I hope you agree with me, or at least argue a counter-point from that perspective, 'or' you are not, in which case it doesn't apply (but just take offense anyway at anyone that suggests that such a person might exist! )...

I guess my only real 'talent' is to push against the boundaries of technology, and loudly complain when it breaks! I simply don't want any keyboard (arranger or otherwise) to arbitrarily restrict what I can and can't do musically, simply because the designers are too lazy to complete obviously basically good ideas. Or drop innovative features because they failed to educate and demonstrate the possibilities of new (or older) technology, and it needed better than 'average' technique to be able to use...

Is the world really getting dumber? Or do the arranger manufacturers simply make it SEEM that way?

Yep, I do agree with you, but I also have to say that some of my happiest times playing were just with the stage 73, the bassman and the drumboy.. point being I don't think we REALLY need technology or whatever is, or is not, in a keyboard to do what we do.

Yes?

However having said that, these keyboard makers have to start treating guys who buy/use arranger style boards with the same respect given to someone who buys a GX8, or a MOXS, or an Oaysis...I think they actually listen to their user base when implementing stuff on those keyboards, well mostly anyway..

All we get is what is dished up OR what THEY reckon we should have or should like or what a perceived market wants, and we have to be happy with that, and I suppose the reality is we do CHOOSE to buy them!!

All we can do is try and pick the best of the evils..

Truth is m8, more power to you and guys like you who do take the time, and expend the energy trying to make a difference.

Massive props from me on that...

Where and when did it all become about the technology, and not simply the art..the means seems way more important nowadays than the end.

I do miss the, truly, live days...

Shit, sorry to ramble...its late Sunday afternoon here and the chardis are starting to take hold

Thats more than enough from me..

Dennis

Hi Diki
Do a search on SZ and you will find I have posted plenty of links to demos of Wersi and VSTs.
Yes I have used the trial versions of Real Guitar and Real Strat (The trials timed out long ago) and even though I don’t have the integrated host of OAS 7 (Versions up to OAS 6 used Cubasis as the host) there was no problems integrating them with styles.
Regards

Bill