Either it IS easy enough for the average user to understand, in which case, it should NOT have been hard for Korg to quickly redo all the styles to use it, or it IS complicated, but even so, Korg (as the inventors) should have had enough time in SIX MONTHS to revamp more of the styles since they released it....

What you are saying is that, for six months, Korg haven't revamped a single one. I would have thought, just to move them off the shelves, re-doing the entire library should be considered by Korg as an investment, not a chore for the more gifted users to HAVE to do

Let's face it, if it were that easy, the users would have done it by now...

The Demo is very good and the guitarmode is impressing. But I see no difference to the guitarmode on the Roland keyboards. i think it is the same.
On the G70 I can make guitarstrums for accompanimenttracks in the same way.

Seems that is orks very mych like the VST Real Guitar.

Isn't it also possible on the G70 to use the guitar mode "live"? I guess you could on the PA2/PA800, but not easily and quickly.

So if it can be done on the g70, maybe Korg can look to adding this in the future.

Dennis

Roland and Korg's Guitar modes are utterly different beasts...

Korg is not primarily a realtime thing, but more a tool for creating authentic strum patterns for styles. Roland, OTOH, is strictly realtime ONLY (or record into an SMF), you can't trigger the picking patterns from a style. Yes, you can record the pattern into a style, but you lose the authentic guitar voicings and inversions as standard NTT's (note transposition tables) are used from that point onwards, rather than the guitar specific NTT's used while Guitar Mode is active.

One can only hope Roland find a way to combine Guitar Mode AND style mode, because essentially, it's utterly useless as is for styles, unlike Korg's version. Just one in a long list of brilliant ideas that Roland got ALMOST right!

Hi Diki ,
we won't know if they've revamped any additional styles till the next major upgrade.

The styles sound good as they are anyway, it's not like they're unuseable because they haven't been recorded in Guitar Mode.

I gather they've given us Guitar Mode so we can create guitar tracks more easily. Instead of having to record 4 to 6 notes for a guitar strum, we can do it with a single note, and not have to worry about voicing it correctly. Done automatically.
ie hit an a2 you get a down strum with 4 strings
b2 will give an up strum with 4 strings
a#2 is a down mute with 4 strings
g2 is a full up slow strum
etc etc
Can be recorded in realtime as the guy demonstrated, or can be recorded in steptime via the event note editor.

Single notes can also be recorded , this is done by strings ie
a3 represents i String (e)
g3 iiString (b)
etc
c3 viString (e)
c#3 is the recognized Chord Root
d#3 is Chord fifth
I've managed to create some simple arpeggio's, still need some further figuring out as to where the capo fits in.
Variations, fills, intro's & endings without chord progressions can be created fairly easily.
Intro's & Endings with chord progressions need some additional notes added which can easily been done in event list edit mode.
It appears to be the only time you have to set the correct Key & Chord type.
So once it's set , to just say CMaj
4 bar intro of C Am Dm G7
I just have to insert the following notes at least 1 tick before I want the chord to change.ie (note)
1st beat of bar 1 C-1 velocity of 1 = Cmaj
last beat of bar 1 A-1 velocity of 8 = Amin
last beat of bar 2 D-1 velocity of 8 = Dmin
last beat of bar 3 G-1 velocity of 3 = G7

The Notes c-1 thru to b-1 are the chords
The velocities give you the chord types.
24 different chord types recognized.
Anything from simple majors & minors thru to
maj7th with sus4,
Major w/o 3rd & 5th ( whatever that means??)
Fairly comprehensive .

For me at least , rather interesting stuff.

It will be great for owners when the guys who created the original dvd set for the korgs , release the next one. http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35600&sid=17b374c01ea8 c6e92b75c3eaa355204e

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diki:
[B]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-13-2008).]

Actually Diki, I reckon a combination of the 2 methods would be the way to go...Roland's because you CAN play it live, and Korg's becasue you can use it in a style..

There are times when playing live, I could see Roland's method being very useful and musical.

D

Hi Rikki,

Do you miss it not having electric guitar (overdrive/distortion etc etc) capability?

Also from what I read at korg forums, the guys who made the DVD's are making the guitar mode one available to existing DVD owners ONLY...

So if all you want is a DVD on guitar mode, tough, you gotta buy them all.

Personally, I don't need the other DVD's as I know my way around the PA's pretty well, but the guitar one might be a bit interesting, not that it would take that long to figure it out.

It does seem pretty straightforward after a recent play-around with it I had.

The DVD would be interesting. BUT not if it comes at the cost of the rest of the series too.

Dennis

The thing about guitar parts is... unless it's a solo, I've got other, more important things to do (more important to me, anyway! ) than take up all my attention just to get a strumming pattern going. Guitar strums and picking patterns are accompaniment, NOT the featured sound most of the time. As such, I need them in the style section, NOT on the keyboard to HAVE to play...

This is where Roland dropped the ball. It's actually not too tough to get a good strumming pattern, but that's both of your hands used up! Go off to another solo sound, and there goes your guitarist

Roland have some incredibly useful ideas wrapped up in this gizmo... Firstly, it's the first chord recognition system I've played that took any notice of WHERE on the keyboard you played the chord. Most regular arrangers just figure out the chord and bass note (but NOT inversion), but this actually works out how high up the keyboard you play the trigger chord (and what inversion it is), and gives you a chord in the appropriate part of the neck. Brilliant! Finally, a good reason for an extended chord recognition area - guitar chords YOU chose in realtime whether they are 'open string' nut position or 'full barré' up the neck.

Now, if only they take that concept, and use it for OTHER accompaniment sounds (horns high or low, piano chords that move around a bit more, bass lines in the basement or upstairs etc.) we would start to see a quantum improvement in control over your accompaniment, and less repetitive patterns.

It also introduces (for Roland, at least) the ability to have performance 'noises' like fret squeak and guitar knocks be added to your playing in an SA-like manner. Again, something Roland should keep developing for other sounds and techniques...

As I've been saying for a while, I don't think we have anywhere NEAR tapped MIDI for it's expressive possibilities. More complex chord behaviors like this, and positional and inversion recognition capabilities could make for a far more 'musical' accompaniment than we have at the moment, without resorting to audio loop slice technology, which, although very good sounding at what it does, cannot do anything more than what was recorded in the first place. MIDI offers the ability to edit, change sounds, change almost anything with far greater flexibility than audio...

Yamaha's Mega technology was the first breakthrough, and still sounds amazing to me. Korg have started a new era with it's Guitar Mode, and Roland, once they tie Guitar Mode to the style section, have a very interesting system too. To be honest, it's things like this, that have turned what used to be one of the weakest areas of arranger sound into one of it's best features - great, accurate guitar strumming and picking. And it's things like this that are the future for arrangers, IMO, not dead end technology like audio loops.

Something the USER can edit and change to taste, not 'take it or leave it' audio loops. Try to imagine how good an arranger could sound, if accurate chord and pattern techniques for each instrument (keys, guitars, horns and strings) were as good as what just guitar parts are now!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 06-13-2008).]

Hi Dennis,
personally I don't miss electric guitar capability, the styles I play round with don't really use them.
Hopefully they will expand the feature for users who do use them, like yourself.

I don't own the earlier dvd's either, by the time they came out, I'd pretty much sorted out the functions in the korg that interested me. Same with guitar mode,I've almost sussed it out.It's mainly the single notes & the capo that still have me a tad confused.
What I'm actually doing at the moment is, record various single notes ( in guitar mode) as a style track. I don't mean the strum notes, but the actuall single notes used for arpeggio's etc. the c3 to a3 range.
Next record a short sequence in the korgs sequencer using the style. Then use the sequencers event list editor to see what notes have actually been recorded.
The single notes recorded in Guitar style mode , will not be the same notes when recorded as a midifile. Just have to get my head around this one if I want to record an arpeggio in guitar mode.
One thing I was happy to find out was that RX noises are automatically created as part of the strum. That's the thing that grabbed my attention in the video clip. I was under the impression they had to be added seperately, but appears not to be the case afterall. Don't know if it adds them to single notes though. Suppose I'll find out soon enough when I start experimenting with them.
Personally I wouldn't have a clue where to add them, so I started studying some of the psr megavoice guitar styles. I also hope to find them an interesting source for guitar rhythms.
I'm not terribly musical, so I need a source to copy ie when to strum up or strum down, or use a strum mute etc.
It's going to be interesting.

As you said buying the earlier set just to get the new one, wouldn't be worth it. We'll just have to plod on and figure it out ourselves haahaa.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miden:
[b]Hi Rikki,



[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 06-13-2008).]