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#235379 - 06/05/08 03:30 PM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10593
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Nice to see such fervent cheerleading from someone who doesn't have the slightest intention of using one, Ian


No Diki...use it I will, and I'll thoroughly enjoy having one here for a while...I just won't buy one...can't afford it.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#235380 - 06/06/08 10:04 AM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
Oh my gosh... I just figured it out!

A Yamaha Motif XS8 goes for $3,199....A Tyros 2 goes for $3,495.
Actually the difference with Korg is even more!

OK, let's see here... Ah a Motif XS8 uses a much more expensive 88 note graded hammer ation...and is all metal..but it costs $300 less than a Tyros 2 with a much less expensive to build 61 note synth action (great action though!)and is all plastic.

It'a all about profit!
Manufacturing costs.
The profit margin must be huge on the arrangers. They all cost a lot more than the PRO synths.

They can get us arrangers guys to spend $3,495 for an arranger but the PRO's on Motifs only $3,199.


So all these big bands with money to spend pay less than us home keyboard folks!

Interesting...but we do it!
I guess as long as we are forking it out, they will gladly take it.
Lee

The Motif XS does not have anywhere near the the quality , detail or number number of styles within it. The styles cost money to make the , musicians and programmers spend many thousands of hours to produce these balanced detailed intuitive and realistic styles you cannot compare the two.

For example the Mediastation is one of the most sophisticated keybaords available with arranger features but the arranger element i think universally is regarded as below the standard of all the other major arranger providers. You would think that with all the great sounds potentially available through the mediastation it would fix its arranger function as a priority right ? The problem is however that it costs many thousands of pounds to hire professional musicians who have the ability to play every genre of music (over 300 styles each style with up to 4 variations at least ) and then very proficient programmers and sound technicians to record and edit and balance the parts as styles .

I cant speak for Mediatstation but i would guess that cost is a major prohibitor in it truly fulfilling its promise to be a top flight arranger.

I've probably said too much. Carry on !

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#235381 - 06/06/08 06:10 PM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
I'm not against those who like 61 key keyboards. To each his own. What I can't understand is why Yamaha, who knows that many arranger keyboard players would prefer a "choice" of either a 76 key version or the 61 key version, or quite possibly even an 88 key totl arranger if the weight wasn't a big factor; why they choose to ignore that sector of the market. On this forum alone we had half of our members saying they would prefer 76 keys and in some instances wouldn't mind an 88 key totl arranger if it wasn't too heavy like I said. I agree that the manufacturers are in it to make a profit but when they leave a good segment of their customer base in the lurch and having to search for another brand from another company it speaks of condescension on Yamaha's part toward their customers (the consumer) or possible new customers also waiting in the wing - or the better word 'lurch'. I think it has hurt Yamaha too. For one it is hurting their image in the eyes of the consumer. Maybe not so much in the short term but in the longer term when people simply bypass Yamaha altogether when they see Yamaha's stubbornness to "get with the times" and that they don't really care for other segments of the market except the one where their greed is fed the most i.e. in the 61 key market. When Yamaha's method of operation is based solely on their survival, instead of the needs of market and what the consumer is asking for, then it really strikes of arrogance, or even worse, narcissistic; especially in regard to their complete lack of empathy toward that 'other' segment of the market. At least that's how I view it. If they truly cared for the need of, we as the consumer, they would bend over backwards to fill that need. Instead, they play it ultra safe, so they can count their money at the end of the day and all the way to the bank - consumer be damned. Except the ones that continue buy their 61 key mid and totl keyboards of course though. As long as there are people who keep feeding Yamaha's all consuming hunger for "PROFIT" ABOVE ALL MENTALITY, they will keep obliging them and pumping out those 61 keyers. Even if there are a multitude of others on the sideline left to wait in the lurch with no other recourse but to find some other company who WILL meet their needs, even though they may have been loyal and dedicated yamaha customers for years on end. Go figure Yamaha. Or better yet, go count your money...

Best,
Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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#235382 - 06/06/08 08:00 PM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2152
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Mike,
It's a no brainer to offer a 61 and 76... absolutely we should have a choice...

There is only one answer that really makes any since why Yammi does not do it. Since it is a piece of cake to do. All the logical reasoning doesn't apply.

POLITICS amoung divisions of the company...Maybe some one very high up has drawn a line in the sand. Home keyboards 61 keys only. Be nice if we knew if it was true?? Maybe that's not it, but to me it makes the most sense.

If you want 76, you just have to buy from someone else. Or add a 76 (or 88)MIDI keyboard under the Yammi. Not expensive and works well. I use the CME UF70.

Lee
_________________________
Lee S.

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#235383 - 06/06/08 08:12 PM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 862
Loc: New York
I'm guessing for Yamaha not to make 76 key arranger since 9000pro, it most likely based on sales volume and marketing research. What may sell well in the US and sales in Europe may have not been strong. I sure there sale are based on Europe since the sales are much stronger then the US.
_________________________
Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#235384 - 06/06/08 08:17 PM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39918
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by leeboy:
If you want 76, you just have to buy from someone else. Or add a 76 (or 88)MIDI keyboard under the Yammi. Not expensive and works well. I use the CME UF70.

Lee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QviBOeRK0sU&feature=related

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#235385 - 06/06/08 11:58 PM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4862
Loc: English Riviera, UK
How many SZ members want a 76 note Yamaha, (The Vocal Minority) and how many millions of sales have been made with 61 notes (The Silent Majority) and you can see that the arguments for 76 notes are nonsensical in sales terms.
As to the cost of a 76, do a search in previous posts, and you will find that contrary to what the layman thinks, it would NOT be cheap to produce.
Regards

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#235386 - 06/07/08 01:07 AM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
spalding Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 582
Loc: Birmingham
If splinters of the arranger keyboard market the market want to buy a 76 key arranger then they have Korg and Roland and whoever else to go to. Yamaha DONT HAVE TO cater to All the market. Just the PORTION OF THE MARKET that IS THE MOST PROFITABLE and buys their instruments ,year after year, through brand loyalty, and probably not wanting to learn a whole new operating system. Yamaha's market consistently upgrade every time the next best yamaha comes along, they dont swap brands based upon technology, musicality or functionality. They stick with what they know and for the most part yamaha's market ARE NOT PRO MUSICIANS. Has the penny dropped yet......

I will spell it out for you H.O.M.E P.L.A.Y.E.R.S

This market is not screaming for 76 keys. And yamaha will not mess with a formula that is so successful. Only a someone commercially naieve would mess with market sensitive features. Thats SIZE AND WEIGHT. Can you make a 756 keyboard the same size and weight as a 61 ? If not then you are messing with features that the market is sensitive to. Yamaha know their market.

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 06-07-2008).]

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#235387 - 06/07/08 06:34 AM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39918
Loc: NJ
Spalding exactly well said.....Home arranger KB players is the key for Yamaha....The lack of professional arranger players versus all other pro keyboard players using synths, etc, certainly drives their research & decisions on product releases. If this was 30 years ago "pre computer age" where musicians really played instruments on a majority basis versus DJ's, KJ's, & every other way of making music like today it would be a different story....there is simply not enough "working pros" use arrangers which = less & less 76 key models available. Or to make it profitable for Yamaha to manufacture for the small market that wants them....so they leave that niche up to other companies to deal with.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-07-2008).]

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#235388 - 06/07/08 06:53 AM Re: More Tyros3 news or rumors?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10593
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by spalding:
They stick with what they know and for the most part yamaha's market ARE NOT PRO MUSICIANS.


True enough, Spalding but as I said on another thread, Tyros and PSR are also used "as is" by Nashville Music Row, and by other serious professionals like Melissa Manchester, Martina McBride, David Paich (Toto), David Bryant(Bon Jovi) and Donny Pesce, just to name a few.

Pros definitely know a good thing when they see it, and are adroit enough to use it to their advantage.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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