This past weekend I was at a function where the entertainment was a keyboard player using a Ketron SD5 & a female singer.
All I have to say is WOW I was blown away! What a great sound!
The SD5 was very impressive throughout the evening on all counts....& I started to wonder if I made a mistake buying the S900 I have?...At times during the evening I closed my eyes & couldn't tell the difference from a full live band. I also talked to the KB player during his break & he also had tried many arrangers but since he bought the SD5 he said there's nothing like it regarding its styles & sounds I can see & hear why.
I'm so confused now & wonder if I should take the plunge and get one also. I've only heard good things online & now with a live performance I'm really interested.
Any SD5 players please give your input. Don't get me wrong I like the S900 to a point but I feel it lacks that LIVE sound I was looking for.

Thank You

Hi John,
You can have the best of both worlds - buy a Ketron SD3 which is the SD5 in module form. Exactly the same but smaller and without the keys and speakers. Ketron modules work wonderfully through midi and you can play the Yamaha alone, the Ketron alone or the style from one with the sounds of both together. Gives you twice as many styles and twice as many sounds to choose from too.
Best wishes,
Tony - Sheffield UK

I have an SD-5, and I've been playing an MS-60 (two, actually-the SD-5 is almost a direct upgrade-same speakers, amplifier, etc.) for over 14 years. They're still working perfectly, so I'm still getting used to the SD-5 in the office.

Ketron is the BOMB! Sounds great, and I'm in familiar territory. Still use the old Ketron (Solton) stuff at least three nights per week on a house job.

Operating system is a little different, but it is my brand of preference by far. There are some resale issues (depreciation) and I personally have some problems with the practice by an in the distribution organization selling equipment directly and bypassing distribution (an absolute NO-NO in my book), but the equipment sounds great and is built like a tank.


R.

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 05-20-2008).]

I was a ketron user for 10 years and had almost all of their boards. The second to last keyboard that I owned was an SD5 and I sold it. Here's why....

1. The weight, very heavy, especially with ketron's black case.
2. The styles are great but, thats it. ketron stop making styles on disk like they use to.
3. It had a few bugs, just like the past models that they never fixed.
4. For the price $2300 base model, no usb, floppy drive, hard disk, vocalizer are options.
5. the riff is nice but boring after awhile since it never changes.

Ketron sounds are in your face great, but the accompanment can become busy.

Now, I sold it for a Yamaha PSR-s900, I love it, its light weight, usb, micro with vocalizer great styles and voices from the T2. The BEST is the price 1599.00 you can't beat that. I accually got at GC center for a 20% off day, so it worked out to be $1280.00. there are some things thatI miss with the SD5, mostly the latin styles, but thats it. Both boards are great they both do the job very well, but one is $800 cheaper without the extra options.

good luck

Now this is what SZ should be about helping others & learning from others experiences with arranger KB's.It's nice to read a thread like this.With everyone just waiting with curiosity in the wings for the next generations of Yamaha & Roland & Ketron to release their latest & greatest....keeping what you have now might be the best bet.

I love the SD5. I also have PSR S900, and after playing the Ketron every night all week, the Yamaha just doesn't have the sound I like.
I will soon replace the S900 with a Midjay for my second system.
DonM

Don & all, appreciate your input.
Coming from one of the top Pro players here on SZ that I've heard as yourself I can really take your opinions seriously as you are in the trenches each night actually performing with the SD5. It's so confusing when you hear so many far extreme opposite opinions. I guess you have to look for whats really right for your personal needs versus worrying about no USB or floppys or a few pounds more or whatever. If it does the job well for you then its the best for you for now No?

I've had the pleasure to sell and use many of the top arrangers,

Korg PA800/PA2xpro
Tyros 2/S-900
Ketron SD5/SD1+
Roland G70

Give me a call

------------------
www.audioworksct.com
888.374.6076
Frank@audioworksct.com
KETRON, KORG, MACKIE, SAMSON..........,

Thanks, John.
Frank will take good care of you. Give him a call. Let me know if I can help.
DonM

Don...I have a Midjay I'm not using...don't know much about the way the previous owner treated it, however!


Russ

Oh that one was really mistreated. You should use it though. I'll call you.
DonM

This is probably why everyone is having a 3rd eye out on the new Audya...

Maybe so.......but Haste = Bugs......so I would wait a while after their releases also to see what turns up by European buyers who usually acquire the units first before I purchase my next one what ever it will be.

I perform regularly with my SD5 going through a Bose L1, or Barbetta 32, or sometimes both. I love it... the styles, voices, features, and most of all, it's live band sound. Constantly receive compliments on the overall sound.

Resale value? Doesn't matter to me... I'll never resell it!

Glenn

Glenn how do you compare them to your SD1+ & PSR3k re: sound, quality & navigational features?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-21-2008).]

Styles slightly better on the SD5 compared with the SD1. Same with voices... guitars and organs improved. Navigation better on the SD5, easier move between styles and SMFs.

Now compared with PSRs, that's very personal, but for ME, the Ketrons win in most catagories. I should add, that I never got nearly as comfortable with the 3K as I am with the Ketrons.

Thanx Glenn......Im toying with the Sd5 Idea. Maybe a possible PSR900 trade plus cash difference. Im hearing only Good things on the SD5 from pro owners. I cant find one around here anywhere Unless I go to AJ's lab or Dan O's house in MD which I have done many times before.... Been also watching the great You Tube demos too. Or do I wait and see what comes out in a few months? Decisions? we'll see....btw thanx for the opinions, appreciate them.

Come on down to Louisiana! I'll show you one.
DonM

Well. gang....
I just found out there was a Ketron dealer 10 minutes from my house... actually he is more than a dealer. He uses on every weekend to gig with his wife and a drummer. So he uses one in addition to selling them. He uses an older model. He plays MDI accordian not keyboard. He is outstanding!

I spent 3 hours with him today with a SD5.

I of course have a T2 and a PA2XPRO.

The sound in general was superb... really in your face. His MIDI accordian does not have initial or after touch so some sounds may be better on a good MIDI keybed, but overall it sounded super!

I love the T2, I love the PA2 (for different reasons) now comes the SD5...

I need a drink! Maybe 2 drinks? Not that I am a drinker!

Now...what do do?

What might be cool is to use my T2 with a SD3 module?

But do I really need 2 of these things? No.

Or maybe use the PA2 with the SD5...it has lots of control/programmablities?

Or maybe just the SD3 with my CME MIDI keyboard? Save some money that way!

OK, Now I need another drink...

Nah, that the first two didn't help, so why do another!

I know...WAIT for the Audya! and WAIT and WAIT! Based on what his info/opinion is..I will not get my hands on one this year!

Opinions welcome!

Lee

While waiting for the Audya, I would suggest getting a Ketron Midjay to use with your controller.
DonM

Oh my ..... do you really think the Yamaha harmonizer even comes CLOSE to the Ketron? That was one of the weakest features in every Yamaha I ever played. They have other great features, but the mic input was just a step above the Technics...and that's not saying much!

Sounds are subjective, styles too, but the mic input is way under par in the entire Yamaha lineup.

DonM,
May I ask for you to elaborate on why the Midjay instead of a SD3?

Thanks,
Lee

While waiting for the Audya, better line up a second mortgage on the house!

Sticker shock is my prediction for this one, along with a deepening sense of disappointment as the limitations of the audio loop system become all too apparent...

It has been so long in coming it should be perfect (No Bugs) when its released.. but way too expensive.

I am still in the Diki camp in that I too have doubts on how they are going to achieve what the publicity is spruiking.

I'm a bit skeptical of the audio loops having the ability to read complex chords and inversions.

If they can pull it off, it will certainly raise the bar.

Ian

Yes Ian,
And that bar would be very high indeed, if they can do it, as you say..

That's some pretty heavy duty processing going on!!

I was always taught if it sounds too good to be true it probably is!!!

Dennis

Regarding Audya,
I heard $4000 ball park not $7000. I don't think there marketing folks are dumb enough to think it would be a success at much higher. Why spend all that $$$ on development to just sell to a very small part of the market? How many of us here are willing to buy a Wersi (or anything)at the $8000+ price?
Even if we thought it was absolutely perfect for us. And wanted it more than a shiny new Red 1966 GTO.

Also, IMHO technology is there to pull it off. It takes a lot of memory, and CPU and both have gone way down in cost. We will see how well it is implemented. Will the sound be that much better sitting in our own home? Demos/tutorials are out there on YouTube. Sounds pretty good.
Also today I found out all the standard styles from previous models will work fine too.

I'm certainly not sold on it yet.... but I want to play one before I decide.

Today the technology is there to do just about anything... the question is: If they build it will we come?

Lee

Hasn't the dollar plummeted against the Euro since the Audya got announced? To think they are going to be able to offer them in the US at even close to $4k (their original target price) is just optimistic, as far as I am concerned...

One more question about the audio loop technology... how on earth is it supposed to change a chord in the MIDDLE of a note..? You know, Maj(sus4) resolving to Maj's, etc.? Currently, a MIDI arranger does this by instantly bending the notes that need changing to the new ones without re-triggering them. And, if you've ever looked at the MIDI output of an arranger, you would realize it is doing this ALL THE TIME. Play a chord even fractionally late, and ALL the notes get this treatment.

How on earth is this going to happen with an audio loop? I fail to see how this could be done.

I wish that Ketron hadn't put all their eggs in this VERY experimental, untested and expensive basket. One can only hope, for the health of the company, that they have a simple successor to the SD-1/5 in the pipe as well, just in case....

Diki
Forget converting, just cross off the € sign and replace it with $ sign to get a typical US price.

Lee
Arranger sales in the US are miniscule compared to Europe and the rest of the world (This is why manufactures don’t take much notice of US buyers) so don’t base your sales assumptions on the extremely limited US market.

Bill

Uncle Dave, I agree with you that the yamaha vocalizer isn't the best but I just looking at it from a dollar stand point. I have to say dollar for dollar the yamaha is a great packaged keyboard vs. the ketron with all of the features. I was told by Ketron (bell ketron) before the closed that the SD5 was going to be a mid priced keyboard, ruffly around the XD9 price +/-, to compete with yamaha mid range line. since xd9 wasn't a big seller compared to the volume of sales they had with the MS series. Ms series keyboards was most likly there best selling models to date. There's nothing mid range about $2,900 w/hd and vocal... I would like to have an SD3, but the price point is not where it should be.

Diki,
They can offer the Audya at any price they want. The cost of building these is not high. It's the development cost that is high. In the end I guess Ketron will have to decide how many they wnt to sell.

Bill, exactly my point, seems like folks on SZ think they know the sales figures of all these mfgs, world wide. NOT.
An example is tons of the PA800/PA2 get sold to mid-eastern countries as compared to US/Europe.

As far as the Audya audio loop/style play question... it's a good one... why not pop over to the Ketron site and ask KetronAJ..he will know.

Lee

MC,
If you want a great price on a Ketron, call Frank at Audiowerks.

I'm thinking more $2400 +- for a SD5 with HD and vocal?

Lee

Excactly....something is not right with their pricing on the SD-5....it should be around $1999.00 at most.Remember you still have to add the VH & HD

Of course the Audja will work as proposed..Solton/Ketron as never had to bail out on a proposed product yet...
In fact a UK dealer [Barry Crane] has used the prototype unit for two weeks..although limited with on board styles as a prototype..he confirms that it plays well with guitar and other difficult instrument based styles..

Maybe, and that's a big MAYBE.

I'll believe it when I hear/see it.

Ian

NOTHING works as hyped. Everything has 'gotchas!' that turn what seem like great ideas into something not QUITE as good as you would like. And the more groundbreaking, the more original the feature, the more 'gotchas!' you can expect.

If an arranger had been made already that worked PERFECTLY, it would corner the market and everyone else would be out of business. There are surprises in the SA voices, there are limitations in the Korg's Guitar Mode, there are issues with the G70's VK organ section...

And there will be things in the audio loop feature that do not work as well as MIDI styles. If you can live with them (as we all do with whatever issues exist in our current faves) then you will be content. If you can't, well, there's always next time

Sd5 Demos.........

Listen & you decide,.. simple


http://www.ketronus.com/demos.html

Hi Fran,
read on Jazzhooves ( I think, Abacus knows where it was) that BCK ( Barry Crane) is actually closing down???


best wishes
Rikki




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 05-23-2008).]

Hi,
must admit my mind started to run a riot, when I initially read about the audio loops on the Audya.

As far as I can tell, the audio loops only extend as far as acoustic & electric guitars & bass?( and Live drums of course).
Don't know how one would go programming their own?? if it's even possible?

The Ram's been extended from 16mb on the SD1+ to 64 mb's on the Audya, but that's still not a great amount. My PA800 has 64 mb's also, & that's limiting enough , even just for my drum loops, unless I keep loading & unloading them.

Audya has 4 breaks & 4 fill ins, which is great.

The Sd1+ has 131 Flash styles ( which can be written over) & 168 Rom styles,
( haven't counted them , just going off the specs)
The Audya has over 400,
200 factory styles & 200 user styles.
Does that mean it only has 200 styles, & 200 spots to load your own styles?? or does it have 400 of which 200 can be written over , (like on the SD1+.)
If it's only got 200, that's not terribly many.

Suppose we'll find out one day.


Hi Bill,
are you suggesting the US will only be paying the same amount in USD as the Europeans will be paying in Euro's.
Wow, if that's the case, I'd be miffed if I lived in Europe.

Be interesting to see what we'll pay in Aust. Our dollar is nearly as high as the the USD, currently.

2 years ago the SD1+ had a retail value of
$6,000 AUD, not that we pay anything like that when discounted. I think at the time our dollar was worth 80cents against the USD, now it's hit 96cents.
Be interesting to see if the Aussies get the same great deal as the USA, if what you're suggesting is correct.

best wishes
Rikki

Is there a SD6 in the works too...?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-24-2008).]

I owned am SD5 which I bought basic and installed my own hard drive with double sided tape. So if I was to buy one again it would be an SD3 (maybe) since the SD5 is very heavy. But then I remember was I paid for the SD5 and I start think its too over priced. When the audya is released forget it, very heavy and very expensive. It would have to be something very good to get me to buy another Ketron. I miss the MS50, compact, not very heavy, great price point, best sounds, the good old days.