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#234483 - 05/18/08 08:59 AM Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5525
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
There seems to be quite a few differing opinions on what the 'new' T3 should be, or what constitutes 'leading/bleeding-edge technology' (or even the need for it).

There are two separate and distinct groups on this board along with several sub-groups, each with a different set of needs, wants, and visions for the future. There is the 'Pro', usually operating as a OMB, and there is the 'Home-user' (which might include some retired or semi-retired pro's). Sub-groups might include singer/songwriters and others seeking a 'quick-and-dirty' compositional/arrangement tool. There would be much more agreement in posts about the pro's and con's of certain arranger keyboards if the posts were only populated by one of these groups. Obviously, that's not going to happen on a board as uniquely diverse as Synthzone. Perhaps we should adopt an AA style and preface each post with something like....."Hi, my name is Joe Blow and I'm a Home-User".

The truth is, two people could have diametrically opposing views and both be entirely correct, depending on their use or intended use of the instrument. Generally speaking (and recognizing that every 'general truth' is a specific lie), the 'Pro' is more likely to want good navigation, vocal harmonizer, quality build, good but not overdone styles (more suitable to tweaking and customizing), convenience features (MP3/SMF player), etc., while the 'Home player' wants something that sounds great right out of the box, styles that make him/her sound 'just like the CD' and that is sure to enhance his status among his/her circle of family and friends (including being the 'star' of every home party).

You may have noticed that this constant quest for the perfect instrument is much more prominent in the arranger community than in the synth/workstation community. I think that this has more to do with getting bored with your existing styles than with the keyboard itself. Organ players don't get bored with their instruments (especially C1 owners , piano players don't get bored with their instruments, guitar players don't .........well, guitar players don't count . That's because the creative side of music for these people resides in the individual, and not in the style bank (as he ducks for cover).

I have no idea what the point of this post is, maybe just some food for thought, prompted by the 'T3' post which I didn't want to hijack.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#234484 - 05/18/08 11:38 AM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
Happy Birthday Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8762
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I would like to order a large pizza with extra cheese................oops...wrong place..
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#234485 - 05/18/08 12:08 PM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 38780
Loc: NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
I would like to order a large pizza with extra cheese................oops...wrong place..


Fran .....Don't forget the Italian sausage
See ya for breakfast in the morning


Funny how people THINK they know what the T3 can do or has PRO & CON & it ain't even out yet? Hmmmmmmm? Ian's is probably the closest & logical train of thought. Honestly I'm just biding my time with the S900 for now & it does the job....
Do I love it, NO....does it make a living for me, YES, Do I have to use experienced workarounds every night constantly, YES.....but that's all there is for now.
So I'll wait & see.

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#234486 - 05/18/08 12:42 PM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: CA
I'd like a Pastrami sandwich with Meatballs on the side please. Oh, a small dinner salad as well and a diet Coke to top it off with. Thanks.. Are you sure this is the wrong place to order Fran? lol

Chas, Chuck, Charles, Charlie, uh.., hey dude! >> I can do that because that's my dad's name and with a name like Charles you take it from all sides right Chas? At least from me anyway...

As far as telling people where you stand as far as what you use your Arranger for e.g. home hobby, pro gigging, songwriting, etc. can be a little deceiving when proclaiming it to the masses in my opinion. Okay, so they know where you stand as far as your Arranger playing goes, but even these other sub groups who are not necessarily doing it as a profession or on a semi-professional level may still want and need (require) PRO level features on their Arranger(s). I think it goes beyond a group or sub group to that of a personal need that any particular keyboardist may require in his setup for his or her needs. Most people who I've talked to don't want their Arranger to sound like a tinker toy, or less than professional sounding for one, and two, if manufacturers were able to keep the weight down on a specific model(s) most people would want more than 61 keys, particularly when you realize the "standard" amount of keys on a 'real' Piano is 88 of course. 88 keys for an Arranger may be a problem for most keyboard manufacturers because of the overall weight factor (which the Big Three seem to have problems solving because all the 88 key keyboards, whether workstation OR arranger, always seem to weigh in at just under a metric ton. So you have 76 keys which is a compromise I admit (for piano parts anyway), but nevertheless considered more professional than your standard 61 key arranger because at least there are 15 extra keys with which the user can attempt to play piano parts with. As well as those 15 extra keys being used for other instrument voices where a lower or higher sound can be attained when needed. Of course you can do this with a 61 key arranger as well with the Octave shift feature but for Live use it would be impractical to say the least. That is yet another reason why 76 keys is considered a professional instrument because of its overall Live use functionality where you don't have to fiddle with extra buttons you just play it.

>> I don't know exactly where I'm going with all this but somehow 76 keys gets brought up a lot lately huh chas. But to summarize it succinctly: "there's more to a book than just its cover". And another as well: "Don't judge a book by its cover". Translation: Sub groups of Arranger players does not neccessarily shine a spotlight into their - i.e. 'his or her' playing needs or requirements. So telling people how you "ply your trade" so to speak, only scratches the surface of that person's real needs and requirements to fulfill those Arranger needs. And furthermore, in my opinion, given the choice, most keyboardists would want their instrument i.e. keyboard, to be considered a professional class instrument, regardless of his or her playing needs or group/sub-group.

How's that for being succinct? [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif[/img]

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 05-18-2008).]
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#234487 - 05/18/08 02:48 PM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
cgiles,
Yes, I beleive you are right on...

I love playing the arranger, as used to play organs that were the pre-arrangers of today.
Yamaha HS-8 anyone?

Take me for example. I am not a PRO, but I am a perfectionist. I play at home and sometimes with others or out to entertain very occationaly. I don't make my living with music...HOWEVER, I have and have owned true PRO workstations like my beloved Kurzweil (you talk about sound quality!)Tyros 2 and Korg PA2 (T1 and PA1 before that)

I want absolute great realistic sound quality. When I play solos with sounds like trumpet, flute, sax, clarinet, violin, oboe, horns of all kinds, strings of all kinds, guitars...etc. I want and expect for a $3500 keyboard (if it was $795 I wouldn't expect so much), whether it is a arranger or a synth to have great sound.

No screwy stuff like different vibrato speeds on notes (especially right next to each other) Noise on strings above C5, weak sound on upper octives, different sounds on the same instrument caused by a bad sample streched over 5 notes etc, etc.

I mostly play slow music, so these issues will ruin a performace sometimes. If you only play the fast stuff.... you probably won't here most of the problems.

While the PRO synths are not perfect either.. they are must better.

Personally I would love to have less number of sounds and have them all done as well as the technology allows.

If I had my way I would have a top of the line Korg OAS 76, or a Yamaha Motif XS 76, or a Kurzweil PC3 76........WITH THE YAMAHA arrange features (smooth baby! very refined)and Korg's programability (especially the style creation and songbook).

So, which compromise is the best... depends on the individual.

Anyone want to go into business with me to creat this animal? :-)

Lee
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Lee S.

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#234488 - 05/18/08 03:12 PM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5525
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I hereby declare each and every individual that posts to Synthzone to be a separate sub-group. Ok?

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#234489 - 05/18/08 05:44 PM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
What about those of us with split personality disorder? Are we two sub-groups, or are we a single sub-group with more than one member?

Personally, I don't trust anything that allows any member to just post what he WANTS us to believe his skill level is. But few want to illustrate it with a soundbite, so I guess we just have to stick to the usual guessing game...

But 'bickering'? Please...

Why anyone expects ANY consensus, given how diversified the forum is, is beyond me. But you don't learn anything (or teach anything) by simply rubber stamping everything anybody says, and agreeing with everything. If dissent is 'bickering', then bicker on, say I!

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#234490 - 05/19/08 05:45 PM Re: Why we Bicker.......take the T3, for instance
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 4181
I'd like to participate in this thread, but I switched to Korg...
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Live: PA 3X / 8.2s / Zed 6FX / Blue Encore 300
Studio: PA 3X / HS7s / Zed 8FX / Baby Blue / Tascam DP 03CD

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