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#232676 - 04/20/08 11:55 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10560
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

But 'intimidated'.... Get real!



Yes, bud...they are intimidated....really!
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#232677 - 04/20/08 04:06 PM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3627
Loc: Motown

The problem lies in the cheap craftsmanship and design of some arrangers. Silly colored buttons, color schemes and funky cheap plastic cases. Put the same crappy arranger in a great looking package and you'll solve half the problem. The other half is the player himself. Get good.

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#232678 - 04/20/08 07:13 PM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
John DiLeo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 245
Cassp I agree arrangers like the 13,130,G1000, G70 really look professional & were built like tanks.....but somehow they have slipped downhill in craftsmanship even though it doesn't effect their sound for the most part like my plastic Psr3000 which to me still sounds excellent. But I would prefer a better build & less of the things Cass is stating.

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#232679 - 04/20/08 07:22 PM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2010
Loc: Texas
Darn - I can't remember the last time I have been paid this well to be a "cheater". Laughing all the way to the bank.

hammer

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#232680 - 04/21/08 07:00 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
hellboy44 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 539
Loc: Australia
I kind of see the issue, and kind of don't.
(yeah - fence sitter...or open minded to both sides of the argument maybe).

One question though - basically on topic:

What's wrong with playing with Midi Files?
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#232681 - 04/21/08 07:07 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10560
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by hellboy44:

One question though - basically on topic:

What's wrong with playing with Midi Files?



I personally don't use them, but I see nothing wrong with using them if they fit a person's needs.

What about playing along with an MP3?

Is it that much different?


Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01 analog monophonic synthesizer.

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#232682 - 04/21/08 07:34 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 12401
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
This is amazing. In all the years I've been an entertainer, NO ONE--NOT A SINGLE PERSON, has ever come up to me and said anything derogatory about my guitars, keyboards, amps, mics. No one has evern said anything about the build, weight, color, size, number of keys, speakers, the seat I sit upon, or for that matter made any statements other than complements about the performance. And, I have been approached my hundreds of musicians, many of them professionally trained.

I had Peabody trained players come up to me and stand off to the side to watch me perform, then after the performance tell me how much they envied someone who had the technical knowledge to be able to play, switch instruments, hit the correct fills, sing, and at the end of a song be able to instantly select the next song. And to be able to do this on the fly.

A retired concert piano player said to me last week "How in the world did you ever learn to use such a complex instrument? It has so many buttons, different screens, and menus that it looks more complicated than the cockpit of a commercial airliner." He also complemented me on the performance, and said how wonderful everything sounded throughout the venue. I don't believe he was intimidated in the least. I was performing two feet in front of the facility's Steinway Grand--I wasn't intimidated either.

Cheers,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy
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#232683 - 04/21/08 08:50 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
captain Russ Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6234
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I think for non-entertainers, there is a difference in attitudes. In my circle of players, the majority of the people using arrangers now did not have the skills to work before, atr least in this area. They were sort of "hangers on". It generally had to do with timing problems. They work now and I'm happy for them.

Talented entertainers are a delight. I'm not one.

I think any criticism of arranger players comes from within. It's not the public or purists but the players themselves trying to justify what they do.

We all just need to play whatever we want to, however we want to, and enjoy the benefist or suffer the consequences.

A while back, several long-time member/entertaines said in effect that anyone can play, but only the real talent can entertain. You know what my reaction to that was.

I own 4 arrangers, plus my old auto orchestra, which still works, so I don't have any room to criticize.


Russ

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#232684 - 04/21/08 01:20 PM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by mikey_maestro:
I've read lots of the posts and responses to this subject rehashed a dozen or so different ways. It seems the big debate and claim is that Most people that play arrangers and make a living with them are cheaters.


OK, let's take this back to the start, shall we?

I am SO TIRED of this 'victim' mentality. Where is this big debate? Where is the claim of 'cheating'? Where, EXACTLY, is the post that says this?

This is a self perpetuating thread, that apparently has NO beginning, and obviously, due to SOME with a thin skin and an overdeveloped chip on their shoulder, no friggin' end!

Now, if someone comes up to YOU personally, and tells you you are cheating, well, go ahead and post about it. Of course, you need to be able to describe WHAT sort of a person it was, did they have any credibility at all? Were they an out of work drummer? Were they the head of a record company? Were they some drunk without the slightest clue?

Look, it's a very impolite world out there, these days. A lot of folks feel they have the right to come up to you and tell you the first thing that pops into their brains, hurtful or not. But you don't honestly take any of this seriously, do you?? Do you really have THAT much respect for drunks' opinions?

Criticism AND flattery... You have to take them with a pillar of salt. Someone comes up to you and gushes "You are the best keyboard player I have EVER heard!" You don't, for one minute, actually walk away thinking you ARE the best keyboard player, do you?

So why, when another idiot comes up and goes "You suck, You are nothing but a cheater!" do you actually walk away thinking THAT applies to you either?

Grow an epidermis, gents. There's only ONE indicator of if you are doing a good job or not. If the audience is still there at the END of your show...

And make your OWN mind up about whether you are 'cheating' or not. If you stand behind the keyboard, don't play a note, and keep your audience, only you can decide for yourself if you are 'cheating'. Obviously, the audience doesn't care....

But ENOUGH WITH THE SOURCELESS 'QUOTES'....

Wait until an ACTUAL wrong is done to you before you spend all this energy getting indignant. As I said, no-one has EVER come up to me and accused me of 'cheating', or has EVER bashed my arranger. Or, at least, no-one who's opinion I cared enough about it to actually worry

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#232685 - 04/22/08 07:51 AM Re: Arranger KB My view: This will make some mad!
DonM Online   elvis
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 13777
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Only a few times have I been approached with real criticism, and these were by out-of-work drummers and such saying I was taking their jobs. YES I AM! ... is all I can say.
It does bother me some that a lot of people think everything is recorded, or that "the computer does it". Almost every night someone will ask "Do you have (song title) in there?" Not, "can you play (song title)." This doesn't bother me so much if I remember that the reason they are saying that is that the music is good enough that they think it's a CD.
I also have heard the comments such as "man those computers can do everything now."
Sometimes I take the time to explain how the arranger works. Other times I just smile and keep playing.
Last Saturday night, a young couple sat very near the bandstand, where they could see the keyboard and everything I was doing. They both watched very closely and didn't say much. After a few songs, I turned around and said, "Please don't tell anyone I'm really playing; they think it's recorded". This got a big smile. Turns out one of them was a piano teacher and the other a clarinet player. They were amazed at what I was able to do with the arranger and they were extremely complimentary. I believe they had no idea such technology existed.
I don't think any of this means anything much, just observations from one who is in the trenches every night.
DonM
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