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#232507 - 04/18/08 04:55 PM Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6040
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Ok, Ian. What's the deal. That new KX series of controllers looks really nice but how come the only offer them in 25,49,61,88 keys? What happened to 76? Is that number a jinx over at Yamaha? Curious minds want to know.

chas

correction on post title. "Does Yammy have a problem WITH 76 keys?"

[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 04-18-2008).]
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#232508 - 04/18/08 05:49 PM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10597
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Chas,

Perhaps they do.

I do know they make a few 76 note synths/workstations...the Motif XS7 and ES7, but according to what I hear, the 88 note weighted hammer models, the XS8 and ES8, are far more popular.

There isn't a 76 note in the MO series...just 61 note LC and 88 note weighted hammer...and the Mini-MO has 61 only.

Could be they are finding the 76 note keyboards a bit slow selling?

I'm considering a KX8 to use with my PSR-S900...either that, or a P85...the CP-300, at 71 lbs, is much too heavy for me to lug around...even the CP-33 is 40 lbs.

25 lbs (approx) is my limit.

If I'm doing solo piano, 88 weighted is my preference...76 semi-weighted are awful...they work for some, but I want to feel like I'm playing a piano, not a synth.

I play piano every day to keep up my chops and the synth action wouldn't be good for finger strength.

I'm sure there will be much speculation to follow.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#232509 - 04/19/08 01:58 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Of course they'll find them slow selling... They don't make them!

Tough to move product that doesn't exist

The majority of Motif 88's are used primarily as stage pianos, the majority of 61's are used in multi keyboard setups. But somehow, Yamaha still manage to make a 76 without going broke.

The trouble with not making a 76 in so many products is that you are forcing those that actually want a 76 to go somewhere else. Brand loyalty is important (or SHOULD be) to any company, and even if profits are slimmer from 76 sales, you are keeping the customer, rather than letting him get snatched up by the competition...

He may never return.

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#232510 - 04/19/08 02:23 PM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
DanO1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
I know they offer 76 trombones...
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#232511 - 04/20/08 01:22 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
And I actually have one!

Bought my treasured Yamaha YSL 643 Bb-F back in '74. Still play it every day, and on most of my gigs...

34 YEARS of pro work on one instrument! Now THAT'S value for money!

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#232512 - 04/20/08 03:14 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10597
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Of course they'll find them slow selling... They don't make them!

......and even if profits are slimmer from 76 sales, you are keeping the customer, rather than letting him get snatched up by the competition...

He may never return.


Oh, they do make them...just not in every line.

My guess is that the profits are too slim to warrant production...remember we are dealing with a corporation where the bottom line is profit...not "slim profit".

From what I hear, the loss so far to competitors is negligible...76 notes aren't big sellers for anyone.

Beyond 61 notes, it would appear that 88 notes rule the roost.

Remember the Yamaha KX-88 controller?

Yamaha sold far more KX-88s than the 76 note version(KX-76)...in fact the latter is a very rare bird today, whilst the old KX-88 is still used by some players despite being out of production for over 25 years.

Check out live and TV acts...you rarely see any pros using 76 notes keyboards anymore.

I guess they don't wish to compromise...I know I wouldn't.

Anyone needing an instrument with more than 61 notes is most likely going to be playing piano on it, and 76 notes of wimpy semi-weighted action is not going to be acceptable to most, if not all, piano players.

Could be one of the main reasons, in my opinion, that 76 note instruments are not doing so well.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#232513 - 04/20/08 04:00 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
kalimero Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Dubrovnik, Croatia
I don't get one simple thing. If 76-keys keyboard is so unprofitable to Yamaha, why don't they discourage their demonstrators (or et least one of them) to use them.

In all official Yamaha demos of Motif line (ES, XS) except Motif Rack, they use 76-key version. They might hook up 76-keys version Motif to the Rack as well, but it would seem strange, and I guess connecting it to Roland controller was out of the question, so they used S-90 ES. :-)

Another strange thing is, producing 88-keys hammer-weighted keyboard version of synths (Yamaha MO-8 and MM-8), and arrangers (Korg Pa-588). What's so good in having weighted keyboard for piano playing only, while having hundreds of other instruments virtualy unplayable because of keyboard?

Although 76-keys are compromise in both directions (less keys and lighter touch then 88, while being longer and heavyer then 61), it still looks better then hammer-wieghted synth, that lets You play piano only (and pads).

Recently, on more then one occasion I saw Yamaha Motif on stage in TV shows (here in Croatia), most of the time it was ES7 (and now XS7), and 88 keys version (ES8) I saw only once or twice when used exclusively for piano playing, and they always had other 76-keys synth for playing non-piano sounds.

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#232514 - 04/20/08 04:26 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10597
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I just finished watching an Eric Clapton concert of a few years ago...both keyboard players, Billy Preston and David Sancious were using 88 note keyboards(Billy also had a B-3)...Sancious even did a "Sax" solo (using a breath controller) on his 88 note weighted hammer instrument, so I guess that some are capable of using other sounds with weighted keys.

The sound I find hardest to use on an 88 note weighted action controller/keyboard is organ (slides and smears are difficult)...61 unweighted are perfect for
that technique.

Sure, if you have to use one keyboard for it all, I imagine a 76 note semi-weighted instrument would do...but, it would most definitely be a compromise if your main axe was piano.

I still see far more 88's than 76 note instruments.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#232515 - 04/20/08 09:27 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
The entire point is compromise, Ian...

You CAN'T play a full piano part on a 61, and you CAN'T play good organ parts on an 88...

Now, I don't know about you, but just about every single job I play involves BOTH sounds. I can't justify taking two keyboards when one can do both tasks adequately. Hence the 76.

And I'm sorry, but every pro in my area that doesn't play primarily piano on an 88 uses a 76. Yamaha recognize this fact in their 'pro' line, the MotifXS. Sad they don't recognize it on their arranger line.

Oops! Is it Groundhog Day again...?

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#232516 - 04/20/08 10:04 AM Re: Does Yammy have a problem 76 keys?
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10597
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

Now, I don't know about you, but just about every single job I play involves BOTH sounds. I can't justify taking two keyboards when one can do both tasks adequately. Hence the 76.

And I'm sorry, but every pro in my area that doesn't play primarily piano on an 88 uses a 76. Yamaha recognize this fact in their 'pro' line, the MotifXS. Sad they don't recognize it on their arranger line.

Oops! Is it Groundhog Day again...?


Well, Diki, I don't compromise when it comes to piano.

It feels plain AWFUL to play two handed piano on a 76 note semi weighted instrument...but, if you don't mind compromising, hey, that's okay...but I won't.

My little S900 works perfect for arranger play...61 notes are plenty and since Piano is only one of the many sounds I use, the action is perfect.

I don't know much about your area, but in my neck of the woods those who do have to play with one keyboard (especially if they are in a band) are using 88 note workstations or digital pianos ...mainly Roland and Yamaha...of course, these guys ARE piano players first and foremost.

Oh well, whatever works for you.

Ian
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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