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#231616 - 04/08/08 09:37 AM Questions to all owners........and Mods
Kingfrog Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 1099
Loc: Myrtle beach SC
Ok Guys i have some questions some of you may be able to answer which will greatly help my purchase decision. Whether I spend $2000 or $4000 I want the most complete solution. I sold all my modules (Alesis QSR,Proteus 1 and 2000,Roland 220,Alesis DM5) and Korg Triton and want to buy ONE board to replace those sounds.

As they apply to following Arrangers.G70,Korg Pa2x/Pa800 Yamaha Psr s900/Tyros 2,
I have the following questions.

1.Does the data of the style playing appear at the MIDI out port (or USB)?

I use an external Sequencer for final recording and separate tracks from processing in Sonar. This is very important to me as styles and tracks could be much easier edited using Sonar rathert then on the keyboard.

2. Does the Board accept 16 channels of Midi data from the in or USB?

Can your keyboard easily import SMF files? Can you import and convert MIDI data to styles easily?


Since Yamaha has a lot of styles available, can they be easily converted to either the Roland or Korg. Which is the most fool proof way? Software? On board?


3.Can I mix Audio sample loops with a style and have them synced by the keyboard?

4. I know MAP pricing for the Korg is $3699. Thats probably a 28-30% mark. What is the street price people are getting? Or are they holding fast to the MAP?


Its real important to me to have seamless operation between external sequencer/DAW and the board.(a la Workstation) I really am looking for a Workstation that is an Arranger rather then an arranger that can also be a Workstation. I believe Korg and Roland may be the better choice in that regard. I feel the Yamaha products to be more "controlled" and less open. I can get them at cost since I sell them. But I don't see the "workstation" part in a Tyros or S900.

As far as sounds go I realize each board has their best but all have great generic sounds. Guitars are especially important and the Korg and Tyros seems to excel in that area. I did not like the idea of playing string scrapes AND a chord on the Roland to get a nice strumming sound. The guitar part on the demo when listening through headphones seem "out of sync" The strumming sound and chord changes made me take a deeper look only to find they were two separate samples that had to be played together.Demos are usually perfect and if this stood out I though perhaps it's impossible to get right.

So my choices are as follows with pricing

Tyros 2 $2700 or less.PLUS 76/88 key controller.
Roland G70 $2000 new refurb
Korg Pa2x ???? Street prices?

Thanks all this is a great forum. People are very helpful and not so defensive and emotional regarding their choices.
I SELL Yamaha and will send people elsewhere if their needs can be better met. In my world many buyers are older adults and the Yamaha shines for stand alone usability.

Not many are going to use a $500 DAW software program rather than the keyboard OS as the creative heart and final stop for their projects as will I.
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros 4
Yamaha Motif XS8
Roland RD700
Casio PX-330
Martin DC Aura
Breedlove ATlas Solo
Bose MOD II PA

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#231617 - 04/08/08 09:57 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
John DiLeo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/06/08
Posts: 245
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/


This KB can do just about everything your asking and more. Worth a look.

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#231618 - 04/08/08 10:36 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8873
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
G70 will do all but sample sync with styles...although you can use sounds from expansion boards with in the style..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#231619 - 04/08/08 10:43 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
The G70 has erratic MIDI clock outs and ins.

You can check this issue out further at the Roland Arranger forum, or perhaps Fran or Diki can elaborate.

As far as I know, the latest OS upgrade, version 3.01 has not addressed it.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#231620 - 04/08/08 11:04 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8873
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Ian, I have not found this to be true with my G70..In the past I thought I had a midi clock sync problem with my G1000..it turned out to be the hardware midi device[XV 5080]..I think the problems mentioned by one or two people may just be the connected device and not the G70..

I have played the G70 into the DisCover 5 keyboard and module without glitches..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#231621 - 04/08/08 11:11 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Perhaps Diki can elaborate a little more...I think it was he who had mentioned the midi clock issue on Roland arranger forum.

Hopefully it is nothing to be concerned about as I think the G70 would be a good choice for Kingfrog.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#231622 - 04/08/08 11:21 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4825
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Kingfrog
You are looking for a Workstation with arranger functions, whereas all the boards you mention are arrangers, with some Workstation functions.
Probably the closest you will get for your requirements is as John said the Lionstracs Mediastation, however be prepared to put some work in.
Conversion of styles works best when it is fully integrated into the board, as then the manufacture has full control of the set up; otherwise you will need to use something like EMC Styleworks. (Even the best still require some work after conversion)
Converting Midi to a style will always require some work, so look for instruments that have features dedicated to this, rather then just tacked on the end.
If you want an arranger that you can add 3rd party software VSTs etc, then have a look at the Wersi OAS range, which has the added advantage of playing Yamaha Styles without conversion, and in the process gives them a more live sound.
Personally from what you have said, the Lionstracs Mediastation is still probably the best bet.
Hope this helps

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 04-08-2008).]
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#231623 - 04/08/08 11:36 AM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8873
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I just tested the G70 via midi...playing arranger mode and keyboard mode..utilizing my soft synths on my PC...No problems at all..I also tried song mode..still no problems...
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#231624 - 04/08/08 12:51 PM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Yes, those problems turn out to be when you have sys-ex enabled in the transmission page. When you modify the styles and SMFs, the Roland generates a LOT of sys-ex, and as these are non-synchronous, they can, if heavy enough, disturb the clock signals. But filter it at transmission (which you ought to do anyway) and the problems go away.

Hanspeter at the Roland-aranger.com site finally figured this one out.

Back on topic (it's a good job I don't troll the Yamaha forums to post all their problems and bugs, isn't it, Ian? ), Kingfrog...

I think that if you want to do audio loops synced, the Korg is your only choice (other than the MUCH more expensive Lionstracs MS, and best of luck finding one of those to play!). Roland have only JUST started to go down the mp3 player path, and their implementation is primitive, to be kind! No synced up playback, or anything like that.

Plus, it is a more fully featured synth engine, user patches, detailed voice editing, sampler (although check how fast it loads - most stuff short of a computer doesn't load up fast enough for the 'any song, any time' arranger approach, IMO), all the Triton stuff you are used to...

Given your 'WS first, arranger second' priorities, you honestly don't have much of a choice in your budget range (the MS is very scarce in the US, hard to tell what your issues might be if you had a hardware problem - not a lot of dealers to repair it!).

A PA2X it MUST be...

But try them out first. SOME who have played it found that some of the fills in some of the styles were 'jerky', due in part to the fact that there are only two fills (and a break fill) per style, compared to six or seven for Yamaha and Roland. Nothing you can't edit out (but you can't ADD fills), but it IS one limitation compared to it's competitors.

But the need for synchronous loops leaves you one more choice.... Have you played the Yamaha MotifXS yet? It has some very sophisticated chord following functions on it's loop and arpeggiator functions, a full sampler and some killer sounds. This is about the only thing I'd say fills your criteria other than the PA2X...

Have fun, but TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!

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#231625 - 04/08/08 01:02 PM Re: Questions to all owners........and Mods
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
But to answer your first post in detail....

1) Roland, yes

2) Roland, yes. Yes to the import (USB or floppy), yes to the Style from MIDI functions. Yamaha use a lot of so-called 'Mega Voice' technology, which does NOT convert well to ANY other arranger (any that say they can simply strip it out). It is proprietary stuff, used to make the guitars and basses behave more authentically... There is NO 'foolproof' method, they all involve SOME degree of user editing (IMO).

3) Roland, NO. But it WILL sync to your DAW.

4) PA2X is VERY new. Not a lot of deep discounts yet, AFAIK.

Hope this helps.

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