Korg continues the surprises at Musikmesse today. The new Pa588 looks like a Pa500 with a real weighted piano keyboard:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=6270

With the new Korg lineup (Pa500/Pa588/Pa800/Pa2X) Yamaha and Roland really has something to prove.

Kind regards,
Tommy

Wow! What a beauty! Terrific idea...should sell very well.

Way to go Korg!

Ian

Wow! Sounds like exactly what some of our piano-playing members are looking for. A legitimate stage piano combined with a decent arranger. That should get a little play. Would be great for a restaurant/supper club gig where you want to just do solo piano during the dinner hour and go into light dancing around 9.

chas

Oh yes, cant wait to see the counter punch!

Wow, looks like a winner!!!

thats just so impressive. Everyone thought it just couldnt be done and then Bam !!! In steps Korg ! I really hope that this sells well.

Hasn't Ian already ruled out a Yamaha counter-punch?

Remember, the home arranger user has no need for 88 keys, even 76 are WAY too many for their poor little dumb minds to grasp!

And the effrontery to suggest that they MIGHT like to play on something more substantial than a toy 61 keyboard... Who do these guys think they are?

It doesn't surprise me. After lengthy auditioning of the PA800, I believe Korg is really doing their homework to become the leader. They have the player in mind and took some great ideas from Yamaha.

I'm working the 800 as hard a possible to replace the 900, perhaps in one month now

zuki

Wow
They have replaced the PA 500 keyboard with a graded hammer action controller keyboard, and then stuck it in a bigger case. (Has anyone tried playing other sounds on a graded hammer action piano keyboard, because if they have, they will know that it is the worst possible combination you can have)
On the other hand its good to see Korg being adventurous though, as most manufactures play it safe and stick to a tried and tested layout, however if it does catch on you can be certain every other manufacture will bring out something similar.
BTW I have never heard anybody say that it could not be done, just that they didn’t think there was a market for it.
Should be interesting to see what else comes out at Frankfurt (Besides Audya)

Bill

I have to confess, were Korg to increase the fills to be competitive with Yamaha and Roland, the way they are going is probably where I'll end up in a few years. But that one issue MUST be addressed before I climb aboard, and Korg have shown little interest in addressing this issue over the last few product cycles.

And before anyone jumps all over me to deny the problem, let me just say SURE, you CAN get by with two (and a break/fill), but not ONE of you would complain were there six or seven (or more!), would you? I rest my case...

Bill made a good point about the hammer action being unsuitable for other sounds.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The PA-588 wouldn't be my choice as an arranger...I like the 61-note light action on my S900...Piano is only one of the many sounds I use and when in arranger mode, 5 octaves work just fine for me.

Still, the PA-588 will find it's niche and garner many followers.

Ian

I agree for sure on this point.....
that is very affirmative.

I'll agree with the 88 comment, although there ARE a lot of pianists that just need adequate backing to make a great OMB... It sure hasn't stopped the piano from being good solo entertainment, despite being poor at a controller for other sounds (not to mention that a GOOD pianist is capable of much that can be done on plastic).

But given Yamaha's paranoia at even stretching out into 76 country, an 88 response seems unlikely.

Just remember, a piano player even WITHOUT any backing is capable of holding down some really solid solo gigs. Add a decent arranger with a good piano mode, and who needs a wanky sax solo?

Diki: You said it brother. As a pianist first, this thing looks great to me. Give me keyboard sounds to play on a keyboard. Throw in show good backing arranger stuff and I'm good to go. Extra playable sounds are nice (flute, guitar, oboe, accordian) but not critical. I'll take the extra weight for the built-in speakers too. Much more practical then Yamaha's Tyros bolt-ons. I don't need harddisk recorders, samplers or vocalizers either. Coming from the PA500 angle instead of the PA800 for an 88-key arrangers is right on target. This is a pianist's arranger!

Yamaha will have to pull something great out of their hat to want me to go from my T2 to the TBA T3 instead of this.

Way to go Korg!

chuckle..yep gotta agree..

Assuming that the PA588 will have the same sound engine, including the same piano sound as the PA500, I am wondering what comments those interested in the 88 key arranger would have

http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/products/pa500_demo.html?en

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 03-13-2008).]

Yep, some will find the piano sound their main source for gigging...but it had better be a damn good piano sound.

Since the PA-588 is based on the lower end PA-500, one would wonder just how useful the piano will be.

BTW...Yamaha does make 88 note arrangers...the CVP line...pricey, weighty, but definitely arrangers...they possess a terrific Graded Hammer action and a wicked piano sound.

Hey, those wanky sax solos...especially the Yamaha SA Sax, still have oodles of charm.


Ian

What does the 588 weigh? & does it still have all the problem issues fills that everyone is worried about on the PA models? or have they been fixed

I own a CVP 307 it is outstanding no doubt about it. try taking that baby to a gig, just not practical, too bad!

Scott my recent purchase of a PA2xPro with 76 keys has all I need to play those piano solos I couldn't with 61 keys. 4 months ago I would have been interested in the PA588, but the PA2xpro has what I was looking for in an arranger. The plan is to stay with it.

According to this press release
the Pa500 and Pa588 has the same piano sound as the Korg C720 upright piano which is Korgs most expensive digital piano.

Kind regards,
Tommy

Listening to the PA-500 Piano demo, it isn't terrific...it's pretty good, but if this is the Piano sound from the TOTL C720 it is rather disappointing.

But, then again, piano sounds are subjective...I'm sure there will be those who will love it.

Poly at 80 is rather low as well...especially for a piano based arranger.

Ian

It mentions RX sounds. If there's an RX piano, then it will sound terrific (at least to my ears).

April 1 - launch date with the 800 live - uh oh - now which button does what again

zuki

Poly at 80 is rather low as well...especially for a piano based arranger.

Ian


Hi Ian the way that Korg handle spolyphony is quite incredible and their 62 note polyphony keyboard (PA1X which i own) handles polyphiony as well as or better than most 120 note polyphonic instruments. 80 notes polyphony should be more than adequate.

Hi Spalding,

It seems that most are satisfied with the poly...but realistically it should be at least 120(as in the PA-800), but my biggest disappointment was the piano that was supposed to be from the "Korg C720 upright piano which is Korgs most expensive digital piano."

Pretty weak (the decay seems rather short, too)for a high end piano...but again, the sound is subjective, and I'm sure some will love it.

Ian

The form and function are what is important... if the piano sound disappoints, it is a simple job to add a dedicated piano module, or a Sonic Cell with Roland's amazing grands...

By the way, I haven't heard much from users lately on the T2, but I am curious how the SA sax fares at the hands of players that can't take their left hand off the chords, to play sax bends authentically...

As far as I am concerned, if you can't ride the bend lever on a sax sound, no matter HOW good it is, it comes out sounding unrealistic.

There are many sounds that just don't cut it as solo sounds, unless you can free up your left hand. Dashing back to play the chords leaves you little opportunity to milk some of the best bend tricks, so in the end, as said earlier, 'keyboard sounds for keyboard players'...

Sounds like you need a chord sequencer, Diki.

I get along just fine using the wheel with the accompaniment...I also use a volume pedal assigned to bending...works real cool on SA pedal steel guitar as well as the sax, trombone and other sounds that benefit from the bends.

Just takes practice...I picked up the technique on the old Yamaha Electones which provided that function.

I'm sure the G70 must allow for a swell/volume pedal to do a bend function.

I'm also quite sure that playing organ on a weighted hammer action wouldn't be much joy for most players...even with the velocity switched off, it would hardly feel natural.

Hammer action is for piano...if that's all you use, that is cool, but sadly it's not the case for most arranger players.

Still, kudos to Korg for the courage to try something different...if only Yamaha would wake up and do the same and stick a 76 note keyboard on a Tyros3 or the next generation S-series.

Ian

There's no mention about the USB being able to store to device, like a flash drive.

Ian

Can you bend up AND down from the pedal, Ian? I need both for horns.

Roland.... no bend from ANYTHING other than the stick

Plus, I guess after 35 years of using wheels, sticks and strips, it's going to take some work to do it with my feet!

Personally, well, you all know my preference for the G-series 76 action... Although it is nowhere near as heavy as a wooden 88, it IS heavier than any other 76 out there, but they didn't make the mistake of giving it the piano's sharp corners (unlike Kurzweil), despite piano-like dimensions, so it's just as good for piano as organ...

There are VERY few actions that can make that claim!

Pedal can only bend up or down.

The SA Guitars provide some sort of relief from the wheel in that they will bend according to velocity and/or note interval...very handy.

I like a very light arranger action and the S900 does pretty good...solo piano playing is a different story for me...I really only feel at home on an 88 note hammer action...semi-weighted is too light and just doesn't give the right feedback.

I must admit, the G70 does have a nice keybed....hopefully they will provide software upgrades to cure the flaws in the arranger section...OS version 3.01 didn't seem to fix it....must be frustrating.

Yamaha has a new lightweight digital piano, the P85...based loosely on the NP-30...88 graded hammer keys and only 25 lbs...I will get to try one on the 27th when I do my first road trip in many months.

Ian

Sorry, but I tried the NP30... yuck! Not even remotely piano-like. I swear, I prefer the G70 for piano to that!

Sure, it's (the NP30) piano SHAPED, but that's it. Weight, inertia, stiffness, all wrong... If you aren't going to get the basics right, might as well shape it for organ, too. At least get rid of that lip that catches your palm when you 'smear'.

Well Diki...I did say the P85 was "loosely based" on the NP-30.

I didn't fancy the latter for solo piano much either...too light of an action and not enough keys, and, although it's selling quite well, it's not for me.

The P85, however, has a weighted graded hammer action...totally different from the NP-30...and perfect for my solo piano excursions.

At 25 lbs it is possibly the lightest hammer action Yamaha makes.

The G70 doesn't even feel remotely like a piano...not much better than the NP-30 in that respect...can't be good for maintaining finger strength and overall piano technique...at best, a poor compromise.

But, it works for you, and that's the important thing.

If Yamaha stuck the P85's action in one of the next S-series, they would have a great competitor to Korg's PA-588...but that is a big IF.

Ian

After touch will also control pitch bend on the G70..

Yes...but for Diki's needs it must bend up AND down.

It would be handy nonetheless.

Yamaha's SA guitars will pitch bend according to velocity and key interval...also quite handy.

Ian

Some G70 tones pitch bend via velocity and after touch can bend up or down..so the combination can work fine..

I think the Brass tones were important to Diki...will the G70 bend them via velocity?

Ian

IMO this bending is way overdone & not needed most of the time if played correctly...I've seen & heard so many butcher jobs people just bending away for no reason...which in turn makes them totally disregard the rest of the keyboard which definitly shows in their overall playing performance & timing navigation jumping back & forth all the time off the stick....trying to make people believe your really playing a guitar etc, etc, ...

I guess it can be likened to how some people use vibrato on their voice...too much and not enough sound weird...the trained and/or professional singer knows just the right amount.

Pitch bending is an art...sure it can be over/under used...but it sure adds a lot of expression when used properly.

Ian

Yeah, Donny... That bouncing back and forth to the pitch-bend lever is EXACTLY why I am constantly bitching about the Chord Sequencer...

Doing it right, inflecting JUST like the real thing, involves scooping, bending, 'doit'-ing, just plain wailing, at times when the SOLO needs it (or horn section, or pedal steel, or...), NOT when the chords can spare you. If you think about it, most songs (obviously not all, but a large majority can be performed this way) you play an Intro, you sing a verse and a chorus (or a head), then, either after a bridge or straight away, you repeat said verse and chorus (or head!). Now think about that... you already played the chords once. Why waste a whole hand, doing the same damn thing?

The chord Sequencer would then let you blow a solo across the backing, while you STILL control the Var and Fill (with your feet!), and use the bender, use two handed piano, play another instrument entirely, and go back to controlling the arranger any time you want...

I don't get it... It is the ULTIMATE arranger player's tool. Interactive, never the same twice, seamless with regular arranger playing, and totally hands-free for whatever you want, for as long as you want...

Who WOULDN'T want one of those?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 03-14-2008).]

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=6301

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HE'S COMING, MAKE MUSIC, GET READY!

Diki you are absolutely right....I remember on my G1000 when I first tried the CS & said to myself Hmmmmmm? what a kool feature, I remember asking Fran how to use it effectively being it was foreign to me on any other arranger I ever owned...it is truly amazing that Roland omitted this in the G70 unit. Lets just hope it is reinstated or possible improved in another form in future Roland units...I for one am waiting patiently for the next Roland arranger for sure!