Hi

No new Roland Arranger at Namm, so we have to wait for the Frankfurt Messe.

Regards
Tin

BR-900CD Ver. 2.0 - Digital Recording Studio -->
C-30 - Digital Cembalo -->
CD-2e - SD/CD Recorder -->
DP-990MC/-990SB - Digitalpiano -->
E-09W - Keyboard -->
Fantom-G6 - Workstation -->
Fantom-G7 - Workstation -->
Fantom-G8 - Workstation -->
FR-2 - V-Accordion -->
GT-10 - Guitar Effects Processor -->
GT-10B - Bass Effects Processor -->
HPi-6s - Digitalpiano med Digiscore -->
HPi-7s - Digitalpiano med Digiscore -->
Juno-D LE - Synthesizer "Limited Edition" -->
Micro CUBE RX Gitarrförstärkare -->
Micro CUBE BASS RX - Basförstärkare-->
MT-90U - Music Player -->
RD-300GX - Digitalpiano -->
RD-700GX - Digitalpiano -->
SA-100 - Stage Amplifier -->
TD-9 - V-Drum modul -->
TD-9K - V-Drum set -->
TD-9KX - V-Drum set -->
TU-80-WH - Tuner & Mentronom -->

Tillbehör:

ARX-01 - SuperNATURAL Expansion Board -->
ARX-02 - SuperNATURAL Expansion Board -->
MA-MBR-S - Fodral för Micro-BR -->
CB-CD2e - Bärväska för CD-2e -->
CS-15R - Stereomikrofon -->
CYM-10 - Cymbal Parts Set -->
KS-G8 - Klaviaturstativ -->
KS-STG8 - "Överhylla" till KS-G8 -->
M-UF1G - USB Flashminne -->
MDS-9 - Trumhage -->
RH-D30 - Monitorhörlur -->
RH-D20 - Monitorhörlur -->
RH-iE3 - In-Ear lur -->

Tin,

our sorces say, your gonna have a longer wait for Roland's new arrangers to appear....probably next years NAMM is more like it.

No Donny it will appear at Frankfurt

I hope your right regarding a NEW Arranger keyboard......wait & see

I'm not sure about Roland anymore, They were so popular 10-20 years ago. They had some great keyboards in the past. The last thing that they made was great, was the G1000. anything after that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

I think it all depends on whether you PLAY an arranger, or use one as an mp3 karaoke machine...

Roland are definitely the last holdout in the mp3 player game, which maybe shows that they still think their customers actually want an arranger, rather than an mp3 player to play over, and recent reviews of the E60 and a long line of happy G70 users are testimony to many still happy users...

I had a G1000 prior to my G70, and if you liked THAT, basically, there is but one thing that was better on the G1000... Yes, you guessed it, the Chord Sequencer...! Virtually every single other aspect of the G1000 was considerably improved, with piano, drums and B3 arguably the best of ANY arranger out there.

If you liked the G1000 so much, I am curious to find out what, exactly, about the G70 is such a turn-off? It only weighs 3-4 lb. more, has vastly improved sounds, better navigation, more variations and fills, probably one of the best harmonizers out there, vastly improved style and SMF editing, amongst many other things.

Perhaps you only heard one back before OS3, which revamped the styles and added much better OTS and EQ capabilities (amongst other things)? Basically, if you want to sound like a live band, rather than a CD, it is still arguably the best arranger out there. It isn't perfect, but nothing is. Unless you are limited to lightweight arrangers (in which case, you can't like the G1000 either), it is, IMO, the best 76 around. The PA2X is a contender, but I still give the nod to Roland for the drums, piano and B3, and the vastly greater number of fills.

Just forget mp3 playback and recording (which will probably make an appearance on the next G-series, despite my contention that an arranger doesn't need one!), and the G70 still holds it's own, sonically, with anything out there...

JMO, yada, yada, yada...

I hope Roland besides the Mp3 player which to me is nice to have but not necessary when using a laptop also etc etc .....but Roland needs to incorporate some Pads to make their styles more interesting....like guitar strums, piano arps, string parts, & percussion too......makes for more style flexibility mixing & matching on stage or in studio work.

Roland has been there,,done that..when it comes to pads [E-500 and E-600]..For my personal needs..I really don't want them...they are just a trifle gimmicky to me..The better idea was the drum variations with in a style from the G1000..that covered the percussion angle..the other pads that were on the PSR-2100[that I owned]..are useless to me..

I hope Roland stays the way they are..with realistic sounds and edit tools...Just add the MP3 player for those of us that sees the value in an on board player..

You folks see how often Donny and I view things so differently...He dumped the G70 and I don't have interest in a PA800....and we still appreciate each other's views... even though he is so....wrong..

Fran things will get better in years to come.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 01-16-2008).]

Roland have 'been there, done that' with a LOT of good features.

Every new model line, it's add two new great features, drop one...

It's amazing that almost every popular feature on other arrangers has been tried (except mp3 and audio recording) and dropped by Roland. Just WHO in the hell do they ever ask about what to add or drop..? I know it's none of us...

But what do we know, anyway? We just buy and play the darn things...

see how well we get a long

Donny, Fran... we ALL know you guys hang out together. Can't you just get this sh!t off your chests face to face? Or Skype each other for G*d's sake! Why do we have to listen to this unending cr@p?
--------------------------------------------

I guess because the practice of flaming, then removing one's post has re-reared it's ugly head, the rest of you will just have to imagine what Donny just said. Perhaps Nigel was mistaken in imagining that once returned, members would not start to abuse the privilege again. Sad.

Testicular fortitude seems lacking here... Hit and run, Donny? How.... 'manly' of you!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 01-17-2008).]

Diki its the same as listening to the never ending crap you and many of the rest of the gang spew out.....give me a break!!

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 01-16-2008).]

more gang mentality eh?

Well, just to expand a little on Diki's post, mc, I think that two of the current Roland arranger lineup are fine and logical descendants of the G1000....they would be the G70 and E60.

I also feel it's great that Roland (like Yamaha)have kept MP3 players out of their arrangers, making them genuine musical instruments rather than a Karaoke machine that just happens to have a keyboard attached to it, as in the Korg PA-800, for example.

If you love "playing" an instrument, you can't go wrong with either the Roland G70 or E-60, but you may have trouble finding one to test, as the "morons"(Diki's word, not mine)at Roland have made a complete mess of the marketing and distribution of these wonderful keyboards.

Do try and find them...you won't be disappointed.

Ian

Personally, I love multipads, just for the fact that I can assign drum sounds to them and play little riffs at the end of a song, as sometimes live drummers do.
I had two primary disappointments with the G70, besides the weight of course. The lack of effective break/fills in the styles, and the lack of text file capability.
The argument about being for "players only" falls short as long as it plays midi files. I play MP3s during breaks, and very seldom use a midi file. But that's just me. I don't care if others do. Having said this, I think midi files sound better on Roland than any of the other brands I've seen, particularly Yamaha.
I would much rather have a good break and multipads as the D-beam, which I didn't find much use for. It's hard to play, work the pb and mod and still wave a hand over the beam.
Just another viewpoint.
DonM

As for the new FANTOM G6:

SPECS ARE SAD! What are they thinking?

Wave memory 256 MB! SADDDDDD!

BUT... there are two ARX superNATURAL expansion slots to further expand the internal WAV ROM. Depending on how much WAV ROM is on each ARX expansion board it could theoretically double the internal WAV ROM to 512MB or more possibly. I am anticipating the ARX expansion boards to have 128MB of WAV ROM each. If that is indeed the case then the total WAV ROM could shoot up to 512MB, which is more than any other ROMpler workstation currently on the market.

Best,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 01-17-2008).]

Don... did you know you can use the D-Beam to trigger the Break/Mute? Or that it can be assigned to the two Assign Switches by the LH? Or it can be assigned to an FC-7 switch?

There's plenty of flexibility in how you set a G70 up (but some of it is new to OS2 or OS3, so you might not know about it if you haven't kept up with the updates).

But.... no Break/Fills, just Break/Mutes. If you want a Break/Fill, you hit the Break/Mute on the 'one', then hit the fill when you want the pickup... simple! (especially if you use footpedal FC-7's). If you need a different Break/Fill, there's a workaround... Just jettison one (or more if you want a choice) of the Intros (I never use more than one or two, anyway) and reprogram it to be a Break/Fill. You just have to remember to hit it in the previous bar (just like Endings). Not so simple (but doable!)

For those who might not have played a G70 since it's first release, trust me... a LOT has changed in the OS since then.

Dikki, thanks. I was aware of that, but my point is it would very simple to incorporate a break/fill into the styles. The assignable button is fine.
Even the files converted from G70 to Yamaha don't have a smooth break/fill. Other than that, I think overall the Roland styles are much superior to Yamaha and Korg, in most cases, as are Ketrons.
DonM

DonM... there shouldn't be ANY Break/Fills from converted styles. The G70 does not have this feature (preferring a Break/Mute), so the smoothness of translated B/F's should be moot...

Perhaps it is the translation software? Trying to make something out of nothing!

My easiest way of making a Break/Fill on the Roland is to copy a fill into an Intro, leave the first beat on the drums (or not, depending on the style), then erase everything but the drums, then erase all but the last beat or two of the drum fill. On a slow tune, I might put a pedal closed Hihat on the '2' and '3'...

Actually, if you can do away with intros altogether for a style, you can do this to four of the fills and have them on Intros 1-4. You can then have a B/F appropriate to each level of the style, rather than the one B/F per style that Yamaha currently give you. Put Intro on a footswitch, and you now have a B/F at the level you are playing, triggered hands-free!

It's a VERY flexible system, once you get used to triggering the B/F just before you need it (like Endings)...

But yes, I would love to see this feature changed on the G70, and requested this very thing soon after I got my G70. But it's simpler to program a total Break, than to add one (up to four, preferably) more Fills to the OS (that's all a B/F is, really, a special fill with a break at the front).

But I'm hoping and praying for the manufacturers to finally bite the bullet, and start to give us a dedicated fill for EACH and every Variation to Variation, and a Break/Fill per Variation. On a four variation arranger, that's sixteen fills (including Fill-to-Same) plus four B/F's. Now that might seem like a lot of programming, but trust me, it is MUCH easier to create a fill that you KNOW where it is coming from, and going to, than something that needs to perform well in a variety of situations.

As this is simply a matter of changing the behavior of the lookup section tables, I don't see how this is any challenge to any modern arranger, they can as easily have 16 fills as 3 (like Korg do) or 6 (like Yamaha) or 7 (like Roland). Once the style writers find out how much easier this makes their lives, one can only hope the manufacturers jump on board...

The text issue is now fixed on the E80 (but apparently can't be added to a G70, but will appear on the next one, for sure). Maybe if it is added to the E60's successor, you might have something light enough to bring you back to the manufacturer whose styles you love so much...!

Using the Intros for break/fill is an old trick...I used to do it on my old PSR-8000.

What really makes it cool is that you could make the fill as many bars as you wanted, and as it's been mentioned, it automatically returns to the last Variation you were on, so it was very nearly hands free.

If you really want to keep a favorite intro, whilst needing the three intros for different fill/break/stops, you can always copy it to one of the endings you don't care for...then start the style using the ending...most auto-accompaniments allow for it.

I also use the intros as extra Variations...I often make them 8 bars long(or as necessary)and program in a suitable variation for a bridge or chorus.

I'm sure there are many different possibilities and tricks other members have discovered with styles.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-17-2008).]

Ian what experience do you have in creating styles from scratch and how proficient are you in explaining the Note transposition tables associated with styles..I have an idea !

Well, Spalding, I wish I could say I knew all about making styles from scratch, and knowing about NTT, but I don't make styles that way.

Creating from scratch never held much interest for me, so I didn't pursue it...it just didn't suit my lazy nature, and creation by taking parts from other styles (Yamaha, and later, styles from other brands that were converted) saved me time and the result was usable right away...NTT and NTR were already done.

Yamaha's "Style Assembly", which is only one part of Style Creator, is perfect for what I want to do with styles.

I have a large cache(still growing) of styles that I take parts from...some with cool string lines/pads, some with guitar parts I may find useful, others with bass lines, drums and phrases that may come in handy.

I also start with a template, a style of a certain genre that contains certain characteristics I have programmed into it...intro and bar lengths, for example.

I also use the "Groove and Dynamics" section of Style Creator quite a bit, not only for changing the swing/feel/groove, but also to make parts from other styles(usually of a different genre) fit into a new style.

I started making/assembling styles out of necessity, mainly because I found the transition from one variation to the next not to my liking, and never had any plans for making them for others, but I do share them with friends that may find use for them.

I'm sure there are others on this forum that can create from scratch...I hope they can offer you more than I can...I keep things pretty basic.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-18-2008).]

Videos of the new Fantom G are up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_vyw6TjK2Q

The Fantom G is quite impressive...I wonder how many of these cool new features will be implemented in Roland's new TOTL arrangers.

Ian

I could sure use the ARX Drum board... looks like a TD on a card. It'll be interesting to see how many more of these they get out quickly. Electric piano one looks good too, but only two slots, so it's decision time (once they have more than two out)...

Still only 128 polyphony (and audio tracks share the polyphony, so deduct how many audio tracks they are using).

Roland state that the FantomG's have twice the waveform of the X, so numbers don't say it all (Roland use a lossless compression on samples, so that isn't 256MB linear)...

Nice that our WS brothers get seamless patch changes (we've always had that on arrangers, because of the simpler engine).

No data yet on load time for the samples (that's still paramount for a live sampler, IMO).

Super Natural is the buzzword Roland have created for SA-type voice triggering, so this ought to be interesting. Mind you, from preliminary Atelier demos using it, I wasn't as impressed as the T2 SA (which, IMO, are even better than the MotifXS ones). Hopefully, Roland have got this dialed in a bit better. I guarantee this will make it to the G-series...

Hopefully, along with the bigger display (although it's not touch sensitive, is it?). I think I'll stick to a smaller touch sensitive screen over this one...

Only 36 lb. (for the 76). Maybe the aluminum construction could be ported over to the arrangers?

I didn't hear anything on the demo video beyond what a FantomX could do (other than the patch changes) so they aren't exactly trumpeting this new ARX and Super Natural (SN?!) voice technology.

I guess overall, one small step forward...

I am still unconvinced that people are willing to pay a fortune for a keyboard with a DAW inside, when for a fraction of the price they can get an immensely better DAW out of their computers. Who, in their right minds, would want to do an entire production on that closed system, when they could have way more power and flexibility with a computer DAW? Trust me, the learning curve will be just as steep...

Keyboard manufacturers of all types are under great pressure right now, as more and more players (particularly home and studio ones) use VSTi's more and more. But what is the keyboard industry's reply? Better keyboards with more live control and easier setup for playing in a band? No... A futile attempt to make expensive hardware keyboards do EXACTLY what the soft-synths can already do, work inside a DAW.

I think it is time the keyboard manufacturers realize they have lost the war... They need to concentrate on what would make a keyboard the best, easiest thing to go out and play LIVE on. Not try to turn them into underpowered hardware DAWs. Fewer and fewer home users are using hardware. And on the gig, you don't need a DAW. Time for the big guys to wake up and smell the future...

Make an über-arranger, with all the WS's loop and arpeggiator capabilities added on, use the arranger control system (Intros, Variations, Fills and Endings), add lots of knobs and virtual analog capabilities, and you have a keyboard that ANYONE can use live with a minimum of fuss, for virtually any type of music.

But don't waste the R&D and budget making crippled DAWs to stick inside crippled keyboards...

Although one cool thing is that you can now use a mouse directly on the new fantoms and move around the screen and edit details with it. I think I read that it is a touchscreen too.

Don likes to assign drums to the multipads. That way he can key them after he tells one of his bad jokes.

Tom

A man gets home, screeches his car into the driveway, runs into the house, slams the door and shouts at the top of his lungs, “Honey,pack your bags. I won the lottery!”
The wife says,“Ohmigod! Really?! What should I pack, beach stuff or mountain stuff?”
The husband yells back,“It doesn’t matter… just get the hell out!”

Ba-BOOM-Crash!

DonM