Well after testing this board for a week, it is being returned to the shop.
Not for any faults, just I do not think it is enough of an upgrade to the PA1xPro to warrant the price.
Luckily I had only paid 50%, so I was in a position to return it.
I will now wait until after NAMM to get some further info on the Audya and anything Roland might be releasing.
Just a few things about it I will post here...
1.Keybed is different (not better) than the PA1xpro, to my touch, quite a deal "lighter".
2.They have almost halved the T.C.Helicon Harmoniser presets.(according to Korg this is to "keep costs down".
3.The number of available vocal effects have been halved.
4.The MP3 recording rate has been dropped from 320kbps to 256.
4.It can no longer read WAV files
5.The lyrics capability is still stuck in the ASCII text days, no scrolling links can be added to text files (Roland and Ketron can).
6.The guitar sounds (overdrive and distortion) have not changed from the PA1x, and neither have most of the basses.
7.The insert effects routing is still the same, which means if you create a user sound utilising insert effects, it still cannot be accessed via midi with those insert effects intact, all you get is the "base" dry sound preset.
8.It has digital artefacts when loading MP3 files, from either HDD or thumbdrive.
9.The overall sound is about 20% better than the PA1x, again not enough to justify the RRP (Australia) of $7000
10. Markers cannot be added to MP3 files, nor are they read from commercial MP3 song files
11. In summary, it is ,IMO, a Pa1Xpro with some minor sound/style tweaking, USB device/host capability and a new look, which includes the motorised screen. Nothing really new or revolutionary, and in fact it seems more like a transitional keyboard than a totally new release.
I might even re-visit the possibility of the M3 with its 4 Karma engines which gives proper synth capabilities with arrange type functions...I am unsure.
After NAMM it will be clearer.
Cheers (and sorry for the long post )
Dennis

Dennis,

Don't appologize for the long post. It was very imformative, lots of solid information, and very beneficial to everyone that is considering purchasing a PA2XPro. These are the kind of posts that keep the forum moving in the right direction.

Thanks,

Gary

------------------
Travlin' Easy

Dennis,
I have fowarded your post to my good friend who is the product Manager for Korg USA to see what his response to your points are. I will let all know as soon as I have an answer.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Thanks George...It will be interesting to hear their response...
Dennis

I would agree with the points that you have made Miden which is why i did not upgarde. Actually thats not true. There is so much going on with the PA1X even after 2.5 years ownership that i reckon there is still tons more i can get out of it and still have not learned.

But my question is this.

Did you increase the Sample ram memory to the max 256 mb and did you amnage to test the loading time for samples ? Also although the PA1X handles the 62 note polyphony well, did you find the 120 note polyhony to be very much better ?

Hi Spalding
I did load the Bonus drum kits samples and overall the loading time with autoload PCM and the Op Sys seemed to be about 30% quicker than the pa1x. As for the poly, I really did not have any problems with the PA1x so I did not notice any significant improvement or otherwise with the PA2x. Perhaps the extra voices are just helpful with the additional RX noises.
BTW I should clarify that the acoustic guitars and the unplugged styles on the PA2x are exceptional, but if you don't use them they are pretty useless. Most of the rock styles are almost a clone of the pa1x, as were a lot of the jazz and ballad styles so for me there was no improvement as most of what I do centres around rock, ballads and jazz tunes (yeah I know an odd combination!!!).
Hope that helps
Dennis,
PS Spalding as I mentioned in the OP, I think this is a transitional board. In fact after finalising the return to the dealer today we got to talking about a PA1xpro Elite he still had in stock, and he mentioned a very VERY attractive price, so maybe even a step back to the PA1x might happen too??!!

Yes i certainly could not justify spending £2000 of my hard earned money on basically only 5-10% new features. I am disappointed that the loading times are not substantially quicker.There was talk on the forum that it would be much much quicker. Did you max out the Sample memory? what does it come supplied with ?

PS I believe that the PA1X elite is the best value pound for pound arranger workstation out there in the market right now. I have just bought the Xprodata XMS4 expansion board for my PA1X. The expansion board is the dedicated piano expansion module. I really recommend it. The pianos are outstanding. There are tonnes of them , all very expressive and hi fidelity. In My opinion even better than the PA2X pianos. I really am not tempted to change boards for some time to come. I am just in the stages of looking at what the next set of Korg arranger Secrets DVD's should cover. I am learning new applications for the features of this tremendous instrument everyday.

Hi Spalding
I was talking to a Korg rep when they were demonstrating the PA800, and apparently one of the reasons the polyphony was increased was because of Guitar Mode, which apparently eats up polyphony, and as good as the polyphony management is on the PA1x, (It’s a coin toss between Korg and Ketron on who does it best) 62 was just not enough.

Hi Dennis
To try and beat the competition a lot of manufactures release products before they are truly ready, (The fact that they mentioned cost about the TC Helicon part is a good indication) and so don’t sound at their best until the first main OS upgrade. (Good examples are the Roland G70, which when released was total crap, (I don’t think I heard a good word about it anywhere) but when OS 2 became available this turned into one hell of a board, and made owners proud to own a Roland Arranger, it was also similar when the Korg PA800 was launched (Below OS 1.5 it was crap)
So before making a final judgment, wait until the next main OS update is released.
Isn’t life wonderful?

Bill


[This message has been edited by abacus (edited 12-21-2007).]

Dennis

Sorry to hear your not happy with the Pa2xpro.

I was hoping the Pa2 would compete head on with the Audya in terms of pricing and features, but this doesn't sound like it's the case.

For your interest, I just purchased the Korg M373 and except for the Pianos, I am very happy with this board. It is very inspiring!! Let me know if you have any questions about the M3.



------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland SPD-S.

Dennis, likewise sorry to hear that you're disappointed in the PA2xpro. Bill(Abacus) good point on the OS upgrade.

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for the time spent to talk about our Pa2X. I jump in just to clarify some points.

1. The keyboard is the same as the one used in Pa1X, with the usual refinements of time passing. You shouldn't find so many differences when trying them one aside the other.

2. In practice, the only differences of the TC Helicon Voice Processor in Pa2X, compared to to Pa1X, is that it has one harmonizing voice less, and the optional pitch correction/voice modeling module is missing. As a consequence, presets containing voice modeling settings have been removed, therefore reducing the total number of presets. In exchange, you get some more modern effects, like an unheard lush reverb.

3. In Pa1X, you could record MP3 files up to 192kbps, while in Pa2X you can reach 256kbps. A rate of 320kbps has never been made possible with any Pa-Series MP3 recorder. In any case, the new recorder has an audibly higher quality (not counting the added playback features).

4. WAV files are still read as in the past. Did you find problems with specific files? We'd be happy to know and fix any eventual compatibility issue. Please remember that you must use the Sampling > Load Sample command, not the Import command.

5. If you like, may you please elaborate on your statement about "the lyrics capability being stuck in the ASCII text days"? Unless we switch to Unicode, there is no alternative to ASCII nowadays. Do you suggest some tricks or alternative system to be implemented?

6. It is true that we didn't add new overdrive and distortion guitars. At the same time, please consider we added several REMS guitar effects (a selection from our AmpWorks Series), that can be used to create this type of sounds, starting from the clean electric guitars, with a better control than on sampled wet sounds.

8. Digital artifacts depend on the MP3 file itself. The (double) player can only read what is recorded in the file.

10. It is true that markers cannot be added to MP3 files, but it seems this cannot be done with current technologies. Am I wrong, or no other manufacturer can do it?

Thank you again for your time.

Best regards,
Paolo Tramannoni
Korg Italy

Paolo,
Thanks for your reply.

I was SURE the PA1 could write 320kp mp3's, but my memory may have been a bit hazy on that one so if that was incorrect my apologies.

Yes there are several vocal presets missing and I think you make too light of what has been removed.You also make no mention of the vocal effects types that have also been cut and the fact there is no low-cut filter anymore. As you said on the Korg forum these were done to keep costs down on the new model.

The Wav files I am talking about are not samples but song wav files which could be read from a CD drive.
I would have thought the capacity to at least play them would have been retained even though the CD drive was removed.

As for lyrics yes there are several things you could do, for example you could use the RTF format which is a bit more difficult to implement than ASCII text but would give greater flexibility, imo.

At least then the spacing could be retained.

At the moment if you want chord symbols above a line of text, which because of the screen size is the only practical system, all chord symbols get squashed to the left upon loading onto the screen.
This has been an issue since the OS1.0 on the PA1x, and there have been no attempts by Korg to even try to address the issue, well at least none that are public.

The reverb is okay, I wouldn't describe it as "LUSH" it is adequate.

The digital artefacts upon loading of an MP3 file was tried using MP3 files created on different devices, including the PA2x itself and at varying bit rates. There is an appreciable noise(audible in speakers) when the MP3 file is loading, although I will clarify that it is not present once the file has loaded.

Yes you have added the REMS but you STILL cannot access a created sound utilising these insert effects via midi, whether the midi is played from an external player or on the PA2. Without setting up a convoluted method of accessing that sound which I found and posted on the Korg forums when I owned the PA1x. It was the same effects structure on the PA1x and was a weak link then and still is now in my view.
Given that the overdrive/distortion guitars are, well, "ordinary" , having the ability to create your own "killer" guitar patch with insert effects, and then being able to use it from a song file, rather than just playing it live from an upper or lower part would have been a great asset.

I dont know about others but I am a piano player, not a guitarist, so I set up guitar tracks on my sequencer as guitar tracks with as realistic chord structures and neck positions etc etc, as I can.

Similar to how the guitar mode works.

BUT you cannot marry those set-up midi guitar tracks with the created guitar patch,because the insert effects are not available via this method...Now, I know you have reasons for this,as this has been discussed at the Korg forums, several times over the past few years, but Korg have ignored all of this and just gone for exactly the same hard-wired effects structure (insert) as on the original PA1x.

Unless I have mis-read data, markers can be used to jump to locations within an MP3 file, and as such can be created on other keyboards.
But I will check this, as I could be mistaken.

There is still no way to use markers on text files to scroll with songs on the PA2, now this IS something that can be done, and is a tool I have asked for.

Korg make no other footswitch pedal than the EC-5 and with only 5 switches I would rather use these for other things than scrolling a text page.
And in a lot of cases using a button is impractical for scrolling a page because of obvious reasons.
It is another simple thing to implement I think. (Roland even have the function on the base model e-50).

Keybeds are a personal thing, and I reckon the touch is lighter than the original PA1x. Although I will agree this a a very subjective area, as is a persons "take" on how a particular keyboard sounds.

Paolo there is no doubt the PA2x is an improvement over the PA1x, and is a fine instrument.

If a person was buying one without having had a PA1 first they would be very happy with it, I probably would have been!

There are many things that are really good, but in my view the improvements minus the losses, do not go far enough to justify the very high price tag of this new board which I have to repeat SEEMS more like a transitional board rather than anything completely ground-breaking.
I am sorry if my view does not agree with yours, but thats the way it is.

Great keyboard, just not for me.

Best regards
Dennis

Nice to hear from Korg Italy Paolo's response was in good taste and very informative. Responses like this make me want to check out Korg products. Thanks Paolo.

zuki

Zuki dont tell me you dont like the S900 now?

I understand the question, just not who's asking it.

chas

Donny,

No, I absolutely love my S900. I was just impressed that Korg woould reply to a member post, that's all.

Like another thread, the longer I keep my board, the more I enjoy and understand it.

Today, it's about time management. I need to keep it simple. Running my own business, playing 300+ gigs and finding time to work on new material will be a real challenge in 2008. This is the busiest I've been in my entire life!

That said, I still wonder where I'd be if that 800 deal would have come through.

Happy Holidays

I'd say you'd have 400 gigs glad your busy & happy with your choice.....go for it the time is now! & & with the easy recording capability on the S9900 if you get a chance email me some songs, I'd love to hear your work.

Merry Christmas to you & yours.