I completely agree that the G70's VK sim is crippled in comparison to the real thing, and also that probably the best single manual B3 sim is either the XK-1, or even better (now that Ian reports the Leslie from the XK-1 has been ported), the XK-3.

BUT.... I realize this is the General ARRANGER forum, and, as such realize that most of us are primarily interested in playing with arrangers, and from the constant whining about weight, generally accept that most of us are looking to gig with the minimal setup possible. So, although the G70 lacks a little in the B3 comparison department, I feel that a) of all the arrangers, it's B3 sim is still the best (but could definitely be improved), b) the keyboard feel and size, tied to what I feel is still the best grand piano sound of ANY (non-software) arranger, is the most versatile for ANY of the included sounds with the LEAST compromise in action (and can always trigger a Roland, Nord or Hammond clone rack for more authenticity if needed).

Most of us probably gig with ONE keyboard. In fact, most of the posts here involve the acceptance of at least SOME compromise to achieve this. If you ARE looking to play piano AND organ as main sounds, whether with arranger section on or not (I do most of my full band gigging and a bit of studio with just the G70), I can testify that the G70 action (whether you like the OS, sounds, styles or not) is by FAR the best action to be able to use your well-honed traditional techniques on, with the least compromise across the board.

OF COURSE you can find specialist keyboards that push the authenticity to the limit. But if you chose the arranger route, you'll have to accept that just ONE keyboard is going to have to cover ALL the bases. Rather than bring an arranger, a B3 clone AND an 88 woody to every gig, I simply find the one action of the G70 covers it all...

I've got to agree with 95% of what you say, Diki. The G70 keybed is exceptional and so is the piano sample. But, because the drawbar section is handicaped, I feel that brings the G down a few notches in the "gotta have" category. Keeping in mind what you said about us wanting one light keyboard, I would have to say that at least the Yammies and probably the Korgs for that matter give equal or better sounds and styles in many areas. For me (that's me only), the great G70 keyboard and it's piano were not enough to keep it in my stall. It's way too heavy and awkward to cart around. I can translate what Roland styles I need and the pianos are pretty darn close. That leaves the heavy keyboard - no thanks.

But in all, you are pretty right in in your observations. I do need the drawbar sounds, and the XK-1 is the best yet IMHO.

Yep... If you are prepared to lug around two or more keyboards to a gig, there are LOTs of ways of getting a good sound with little compromise.

But I am talking primarily if you have to use just the one.

I ALWAYS use strong ATA cases for all my keyboards (just too used to road conditions to risk anything flimsier) so a multi keyboard rig, even if using pretty light keyboards (which the XK-1 is not - 15kg - way more than a PSR!) once you add in the road cases is WAY more than my G70 alone. Some feel that multiple medium weight cases are better than one heavy case. I feel the opposite (opinions vary!)...

But, whatever floats your boat. At least the choice exists, other than a 76 from Yamaha...!

What's great about the VK-8M is that you can tweek the tonewheels, amplifiers, Chorus, and reverb using hardware control surfaces:

[img]http://www.arrangerworld.com/files/pictures/1/1/20071204081530_1_1_rs.JPG [/img]

------------------
Al Giordano
http://www.arrangerworld.com


Tyros 2, Yamaha P-250, Korg Triton Extreme 76, Roland VK8-M, DW Collectors Series Drums, Roland SPD-S.

Yep, Al, the VK8m is cool...what were your feelings on the chorus vibrato?

Did you feel it was a good replication of the Hammond?

Ian

I've got a feeling, as soon as Hammond Suzuki upgrade the XM2 with the new Vib/Chr and Leslie from the XK-1/3c, it is probably going to be the über-clone rack, too...

BTW, has anyone tried using either the Hammond or the NI B4 drawbar controllers on Nord's? If they can be made to work, it might bring a few more hardcore B3 guys into the C1 camp...

Reading all this stuff about the VK8m really has me thinking again about using midi modules. I think if you are an arranger player who is happy with his board and just wants to add better drawbar realism than your arranger supplies, then the VK8m or XVm would be great additions.

Personally, I shy away from modules; probably because I'm not too good at midi controlling techniques. But there's is so much to be said for matching the keyboard size, feel and quality to match the sounds you are playing.

Nothing is worse than playing a great sample/sound on the wrong keyboard. It just doesn't sound the same. that tactile feel of the right keyboard is essential. I feel Kurzweil did that with their PC88 and other products. The keyboard sold me on the sounds, more than the reverse. I think it's much the same here in our discussion of Hammond clones. If you can match a clone sound you are happy with, with a keyboard action the satisfies you, then that's the key. I think Hammond, Korg, Nord and Roland have done great jobs with their clone keybeds. The keytouch is different than a regular synth action of most sorts. The close have that immediate contact that is essential to that B3 jazz attack.

I'm rambling, so I'll quit here, but I think I've made most of my point that sounds and keyboard should go together. I guess if I really had to settle on playing just one keyboard and having to have my drawbars, then the G70 was best for me, BUT I don't have to settle for that and I didn't.