Well I found another course to teach people how to play the piano despite years of leassons, or who have never played. I have played piano sort of. Learned the tradional classical way. This needless to say, does not work for playing popular music. Most of what I learned in this seminar was simmilar to the style Scott Houston the Paino Guy taught on PBS. A lot of what I learned were basiclly tricks on how to play any peice of popular music. Which basicly means learning chords. Which is pretty easy once you know how to play chords. Which I do, so I was one up on most, but not all of the people in the seminar. There was at least one other who know chords as well.

So how come I quit playing the paino? Mainly because like most kids I lost interest in learning to play the piano, beacuse of the of the crap that goes with learning to play. Plus I got frustrated as well. And of course I wanted to be able to sit down and just start playing right away. I found out that does NOT work. I have to practice in order to play well. which is not one of my strong areas. Probably beacuse of the way I had to practice the piano for 20 minutes a day, playing classical music. This is by no means how kids should be taught to play, unless the have an affinity for classical music, which most kids don't have.

I figure the best way to learn, is to play a little bit each day until I get better. By starting with the chords first and then working my way up to melodies. Also I need to get my hands to work together. So at some point I could play "Misty" for example.

Of course I don't have a Piano, however I do have my Roland Juno-106 synth, to practice on. Eventually I will get a better sounding keyboard. At the moment I don't have the money for a better keyboard.

Paul,
I'm surprised that you stay around music at all. You sound as if it's all a chore. Don't you love anything about it? Isn't it worth a little time to perfect a skill that will bring you joy????
Quit looking for shortcuts and EZ methods. The only way to really learn it is to get your hands on the keys and practice. Get a good video or a good teacher and pay attention.... it's worth it - trust me.

That's a bit harsh, UD.

When I started learning piano some 40 (ulp)years ago it was "Classical or nothing" so I didn't hit a tune I recognised for two years, until I had done the "basics" (scales, learning to read music, etc etc). Luckily I could play by ear anyway so I could bash away at something I sort of knew to avoid getting really hacked off at the formal stuff.

If I hadn't been so lucky in being able to play by ear I'm not sure I'd have made it through theclassical stuff.

That's what arrangers are for
zuki

Whoa! I never said playing music was a chore. It's just no one ever made playing the piano fun. I was not taught to enjoy playing but to work at it and be correct with my fingering and counting. This class was not a short cut, but rather a different approch to playing non-classical music.

Perhaps we should all contribute to buy Paul a nice new piano; something like one of the new CVP's would do I'm sure. He'd still have to work like hell but at least he'd have a nice piece of furniture to polish..

I will willingly pass on any contributions!
Well, possibly.............

In this part of the world, there are folks giving away pianos every day. These are people who purchased pianos, mistakingly thinking their children, who live in front of computer and TV screens, would take piano lessons and become proficient--not a prayer. Consequently, those pianos, and there are millions of them, end up as plant stand, places to put picture frames with family photos, or essentially, just another horizontal surface that gets covered with useless junk. After a few years of the children pounding on the keys the parents decide to get rid of the piano. However, there is usually no takes for the advertisements they place in local news papers. Eventually, in desparation, the piano is offered for FREE--HAUL IT AWAY. The cost of having a piano moved in this part of the nation is about $500 to $800, and it's not possible for just two people to do it safely. Hence, lots of free pianos around. Just look in the newspapers.

Gary

I have a friend who quit playing the piano after about 13 years of practice, just 2-3 years short of her diploma. Watching her playing, got me interested in playing too, never had the patience to study though.
The reason she quit? Her teacher didn't manage to be a concert player, and tried to make one of her students. Putting so much pressure cracked some of them. In addition to that, when you urge a classical taught teenager to "play something" he/she usually will play some classical stuff. Not a sure way to have fun among teenagers.
Bottom line: She got sick of playing. The old upright piano is in the house, but I doubt if she has played more than 30 minutes in the past 10 years.
I, on the contrary play at least 45 mins every night in a humble keyboard. But nobody urged me to study for 12-14 hours a day.

This is only my opinion. I took piano for one year when age 10. I quit when a town hoodlum said it was sissy. Bad mistake. However, wanting to practice was a chore. Standard teaching methods. I know basics are good and all that but man, boring.

Decades later I decide I want to jump in again. Forgot all I ever learned. Bought a Yam psr740. It intimidated me. Where to start? It sat there for a year and I just kept banging on guitar.

One day, an epiphany. I thought "If I could play chords like I can on guitar, I should be able to make music." That, my friend, is the key to playing piano, IMO. That's it. THE key.

I read up on basic theory. How chords are comprised. (Which I had never learned and I'd played guitar for decades.) In two weeks, I was making all kinds of music.

I know I need to learn scales so I can play melodies more readily but chords, that's the key.

David Sudnow has a course you can buy. I'm not touting him but he makes a lot of sense. Which is to say that traditional method of teaching is absolute b.s. That 99% of everybody will never learn how to play by ear. Unless they learn to play by ear.

I recognize the value of being able to read. But playing by ear is more important to most people. Sudnow says you can develop it. He says just about anyone can. I dunno.

So, Uncle Dave, and all others who would not mind imparting some knowledge to a novice, what would you recommend as a good video, or other method for helping to learn to play? I have a great keyboard (Genesys) and all I do right now is, pick out tunes with one finger, and play along with the included styles. I would like to learn to use all the fingers on both hands and all the capabilities of this great instrument. I am 67 years old and would like to learn how to play compotently before I turn toes up. Many thanks to all who provide answers to this query.

Jerry Mullikin

I recognize this totally. I had accordeon lessons for 9 years and could never have stayed that long if I couldn't play what I wanted to play - the popsongs of those days. The first song I ever played without lessons was True Love (1956), because an uncle brought an accordeon for me. Later on I taught myself Beatlesongs from my records. I did the same for other music too, because the arrangements I had to play were simplified scores and I wanted it to sound like the records.
I agree that if you totally depend on notes, music lessons will not satisfy. Although nowadays things have changed a bit. The arrangers are a big help and so are the fake books.


------------------
drdalet

I'm no expert. All I can tell you is it was dramatic. Simply learn how chords are made up. Majors, minors, 7ths, augmented, diminished, etc. And inversions. Play around for a couple of weeks and you will be amazed. I promise, Jerry, it's the key.

In two weeks, if you read a lead sheet that says...

G Em C D
Am C D G

You will be able to play it with your keyboard and you will amaze YOURSELF.

Majors and minors first. That'll take care of a bazillion songs.

For all of those who wish to learn specific chords, you'll find the easiest lessons at http://psrtutorial.com/Resources/R_ChordSecrets/r_chordsecrets.html

I play by ear, but I still needed to learn some specific chords. This was the place to find them. No boring tapes, books or anything other than simple chord instructions. Give it a shot--it's free.

Gary

By the way, when I recommended learning chords, I meant how they are COMPRISED. What MAKES a major chord, a minor, etc. With ANY note as the root. In other words, basic theory.

Not that C, E, G makes up a C-major chord or whatever. But that it's root, 4 semitones up, then 3 semitones up from there, and THAT makes a major chord. Etc. I couldn't tell you right now what makes up a G# major chord without thinking about it and counting the semitones but I could reach down and play it.

I'm sorry if I came off as harsh. I was just trying to understand Paul's thinking. Getting involved with keyboards, synths and music in gereral has never been portrayed as easy in any places I've ever been. On the contrary .... it's a skill position that requires talent. It's not like typing .... anyone can learn that eventually, but to be a musician requires a gift before you get started. To recognize and accept that gift is the first step toward the journey of playing music. (not just notes) After that .... how far yoyu take it depends on how strong the gift is and how hard you work at perfecting the skill.

I've seen "how to" videos in the stores but I can't name a good one for you. Ask the music shop owner for a recomendation, or ask to speak to the keyboard teacher about ideas. Studying music is so much more rewarding than studying history or math. The fun factor is built right in, and the gains are instant in many cases.

One more thing ...... push yourself AWAY from the pc and get out and WATCH some performers at thier craft. That's a great way to get excited and learn ideas and tricks for your own performance. You got to SEE it to believe it. Get off line and get OUT in the world a bit. Music is meant to be shared. Now, go share some!!!!!

Nothing good comes easy. If this wasn't the case, then everyone would be able to play the keyboard.
It is like saying,"I want to be able to hit my drives straight at 250 yards most of the time right away". It won't happen.

If one has the sincere desire and passion to learn, even without current talent, it will come in time. For most, it takes about 10 years to reach a respectable level of profiecency. There are no shortcuts, so learn it the right way, work with a music teacher you feel comfortable with.

If there was no crap in learning how to play, or swinging a golf club, then it wouldn't be fun.

Well put, but I would've added the word 'well' to the end of the sentence too.

Scott

My standard response to people who say "I wish I could play an instrument" is "... if you start learning today, in 5 years you will say you've been playing for 5 years ... if you don't start today, in five years you'll be saying "I wish I could play an instrument" ...


As for the scales and stuff... having never had formal piano training, I wanted to 'play better' ... nice chords, chord substitutions, etc. One night I heard this piano player ... he was great!!! I asked him if he taught and he said yes, so I went for lessons ...
The first night I told him I only wanted to learn better chords, etc. and did not want scales, exercises, etc. He wrote out some chord changes to a standard tune, showed me some stuff, and I went home to practice ... I got nowhere with the piece and when I went back 2 weeks later he simplified it and said "you don't want any scales or exercises, right?" I said no, and went home to work on the tune ... the same thing happened ... when it happened the third time and I again heard "you don't want any scales or exercises, right" I got the message ... You can't have one without putting the time in on the other ... Scales and exercises form the foundation ... and you can't build anything without a foundation ...

Unfortunately the demands of the 'day job' got too great and I had to quit the piano lessons ... but I'll get back to it one day ...
t.

[This message has been edited by tony mads usa (edited 09-14-2004).]

No way. You gotta have the gift first. Music is more than just mechanical repetitions of exact pitches in rhythm.

I respect many of you pros out there including UD and others and will always want to learn. If one knows lots of chords and how to use them correctly. Does that mean one has a talent ?

Or does talent mean one has to be able to compose new songs ?

Hi Paul,

Instant Piano
-------------
a computer
jos's omb arranger software
some psr piano styles
your synth

Might allow you to make some music until such time as you can get yourself a piano.

In my case , it's not hopelessly busy, just hopelessly untalented ( haa haa )

best wishes
Rikki

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 09-14-2004).]

In the sixties a friend developed Rheumatoid Arthritis He couldn't do very much. He knew I taught my self chord theory. He asked me to teach him.

We sat down at my piano for 8 hours one day. The next day he comes over and says how does this sound. He plays the chords to "I Left My Heart In San Francisco". Well most of them anyway.

Basically I taught him in about the same fashion as the PBS show guy does. It's simple. Throw a b c d e f g in the garbage, it confuses many people. Now this statement isn't true if you want to play classical. If you want to play classical, you must go through the boring teaching routine.

If you just want to chord and sing on an arranger, follow the list below. First a necessary honest evaluation of yourself. If you can't hear if you are playing the scale correctly, you’re like the tin ear singer we have talked about, you won't be able to do it without a teacher. But if you can play the scale by ear, again throw the a b c d e f g in the garbage. It’s imperative that you can hear the scale to use this method

1. Start anywhere on a keyboard or piano and play a scale. I mean anywhere you want.
2. Play it again, but this time pick out the first, third and fifth note that you play.
3. Play these three notes together. The first of the scale the third of the scale and the fifth of the scale all at the same time and that's a major chord. I know it sounds too simple, however, its a fact. At this point you don't need to know if it's "a b c d e f g." You're learning that the first, third and fifth note of any scale is a chord regardless of what the name of it is.
4. Now pick out the 7th note in that scale and add it to the other three notes that you've found and you have the major 7th chord.
5. Flatten the 7th and now you have a Dom 7th chord.
6. Pick out the 6th note and guess what chord that might be.

This number system is very simple and it works. As you go along, teach yourself what the name of the keys on the keyboard are. Such as "a b c d e f g" at a later time after you're comfortable with the first third and fifth notes of a scale theory.

After you are comfortable with this method, you can learn the augmented, diminished and minor chords easy. Don’t forget practice them with your left hand so that the right hand will be free. This is what the arranger keyboard was made for. If you try to use it other than what it was designed for you’ll be frustrated like some one else on this forum is.

If you learn to form the chords with your left hand, you'll be able to have the right hand free to play melodies, solos etc.

A couple of months ago, I told my wife, look what this guy on PBS is selling. I figured this out myself and taught it to a friend 30 years ago.

The PBS guy did used picture cards, but counting the notes in the scale and figuring out what notes to use sets this in your mind very quick and you will become proficient at it very quickly if you apply yourself, and it is more fun than spending 6 months learning that a quarter note gets a beat the eighth note gets a half beat etc.

I have no doubt that 1,000's of people probably have become disgusted with this very slow method over the years that might have been able to be a decent entertainer if taught the simple numbered note chord system.

After you learn how to form a chord and figure out what a chord is, you can get a Real Fake book and play 1000's of tunes. If I can help, email me.

Brickboo, that is what I did. I learned to play the chords with my left hand. With the right, as well, if you are talking arranger. And the right hand does fills and stuff.

Now, when I get back into it, I have to tackle NOT playing full chords with the left hand. I mean, sans arranger. So I can just play piano by ear. I was making pretty good progess with that. I kinda need a keyboard though. All I got is geetars right now.

Many thanks to all who have taken the time to post to this discussion. I have learned quite a bit by reading the postings and I'm sure I'll be able to apply this new information to what I am currently doing, and hopefully become more proficient, and, consequently, derive more pleasure from using my keyboard. This kind of thing is what makes this forum so beneficial to all who come here. Again, Thank You!!!

Jerry Mullikin

WOW! When I posted this topic I never expected this kind of a response. Thanks!

Actually I can play and have a little bit of talent, though I would not put myself in the same catagory as Ray Charles or Liberaci, but I do know my chords and can pick up on some melodies. I do know how to play christmas tunes, though not the way most were orginally written, but are still recognizeable. And I do sound good if I do say so myself. I just have to move foward and learn to tackle some more complicated peices.

I do have a keyboard although it does not have a very good sounding piano and it has 61 keys but for now it will have to do, and if need be I can go to my parents house and use my mom's digital piano, which is a KORG. Even though now piano sounds in more of todays digital pianos and electrion keyboards sound even more realistic then they did fourteen years ago. Or even twenty years ago like with my Juno-106.


All I was saying when I wrote this post orginally was that I was actually sitiing in a seminar in person instead of wacthing a video.

BTW: Dave, there are not too many piano players where I live, most of them are guitar players, or play in a high school marching bands.

[This message has been edited by Paul-61 (edited 09-15-2004).]