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#216829 - 07/10/07 02:36 AM Re: " The Sampling ( copyed) fighting BAR"
dani_76_es Offline

Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 81
Loc: Madrid,España
Hey,Lionstracs: can sample my fingers too??? I need a Jerry Lee Lewis sample for my fingers ).I want to play like Jerry L.L.....i love it

#216830 - 07/10/07 04:53 AM Re: " The Sampling ( copyed) fighting BAR"
Booby Offline

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 107

IMHO LionTracks is not behaving correctly and I seriously hope the big 3 making a serious legal action against them and see what happens: the whole operation looks to me a little arrogant, hope to be wrong.

The real truth is that this super mega arranger station is still far and far from the streamlined competitors that will lack microprocessor power, usb connection, gigabytes of samples but at the end are complete musical instruments (that lead to me asking if people is using it as a musical instrument or as a computer instead).

What they continuosly claims is to have the most complete and powerful arranger in the world, but what I see and read in this forum is that they started to copy sounds and styles from competitors, something that started to be banned also in the most aggressive "chinese economy".

I don't see a clear strategy in this project, something that looks perfectly clear in the 3 bigs plans, and hope the time will let us know who was right and who was wrong.

Just my thought.

Best regards.

#216831 - 07/10/07 05:32 AM Re: " The Sampling ( copyed) fighting BAR"

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
I think here the problem is totally different..
We are "sampling" just some that seem interesting to sample and you all there seem only yerks that LIONSTRACS will try to OPEN the way for the 3 big that still they continue selling you obsolete and slow device.

IF Spectrasonic, Garritan, Sonicstate and TON of others will sampling the ONLY 19 interesting Tyros 2 sounds, all is legally, because they are allowed to sampling the all what they like.

The problem is that the Mediastation is still the unique softsynth keyboard that can recal TON of gigabyte of sounds under streaming format and for this is able to play the all "sampled" sounds.

still we have to discuss HOW the Wersi can reproduce 1:1 to tyros styles and sounds..but there of course we can NOT touch this key because they are Wersi and NOT Lionstracs.

I think, untill small open company like Lionstracs will not pressing under this way, the all other 3 big will continue offer you only recycled and obsolete system. This ONLY because no another company will risk to insert in this field new keyboard system and you there are able to buy only what they will offer you.

Please, not offence and arrogance but try to ask to your 3 big some more new FRESH technology..
Untill you have to pay 3000-4000 euro for one professional arranger keyboards, then they "CAN" offer you maybe the USB 2.0 for loading your 50-100 Mb sounds in just some seconds and not hours...
1Gb DDR2 ram cost now only 25 euro, why you have to pay 300-400 euro for the same 1Gb ram under T2?

Remember that the MS somewhere will cost LESS that you Korg, Yamaha and roland and is Full expandible HOW you like.
Enjoy what you play

#216832 - 07/10/07 07:09 AM Re: " The Sampling ( copyed) fighting BAR"
Booby Offline

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 107

what I hear with my ears is that the obsolete technology still sound better than the new one: remember that we are not talking about computers, this is a musical instruments (arranger) forum. So anything is of benefit is welcome, but mainly the very first benefit must be in the music I (or we) can play with.

Fyg I started programming a Commodore 64 as soon as it appeared in the market, so I'm not one of those that is not open to new technologies. But the use of technology must always fit where you apply it, and today the big race to have always the best, the fast, the better sometimes does not lead always (imho) in a better world.

Let me show one example: few days ago I bought a GPS bluethooth receiver and received a lot of offers for 32, 40 and 52 channel devices. At the end I saved more than 30 euros (it's pratically half of the whole price) buying a 20 channels GPS. This because in the world exists only 27 satellites 3 of which are not working and used as spare parts and you can imagine that the remaining 24 cannot be all over my head, this to serve also the rest of the world. Here is a typical example where extra technology doesn't deliver me a benefit, in this particular case it is "artificially pumped" to keep also the prices high givin' the actual success of GPS receivers. As a general rule I "try" (I say again try) to use always my head before any technology.

Back to the topic: the "obsolete" keyboards you mention may be also "prehistoric", but still sounds better to my ears. I agree with you that an open system looks more interesting and promising that a closed one (I've a Symbian phone for instance), but I would like to ear before any good music. Than we can discuss also of specs. I'm not particularly impressed to see that you have 22.000 MB of samples when very few hundreds sound better to me: the rule bigger is better here does not apply.

I'm not use to judge a song if it's made with Pro-Tools or with a Tascam 234 of the 80's: have you idea of how many (for example Beatles) songs we are still singing and has been recorded with a "obsolete" analog 4 tracks ? Donald Fagen, making wonderful music still record in analog (from a Sound on Sound interview). Music must be always before any technical argument.

Be so kind to split arguments: we are talking about music first, than of technology, ok ?

Just my though, and no offence intended, it's just an open discussion.

Best regards.

#216833 - 07/10/07 01:48 PM Re: " The Sampling ( copyed) fighting BAR"
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
Before we forget totally this topic, some update here:

Found this from Korgforums: e528b0f30103ad3774cecc


Spectrasonics sat down and designed every single sound that they eventually ended up sampling.
In short, they sampled their own work.

I also take it that you don't know who owns Spectrasonics considering this post you made.
Eric is a top “”” SOUND DESIGNER”” who has worked for Roland for years.


#216834 - 07/10/07 07:46 PM Re: " The Sampling ( copyed) fighting BAR"
keybplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
I think Dominic is now hurting his own cause because of his arrogant attitude that he's displaying here on the SZ. Maybe some of his words are getting lost in translation since his main language is Italian but from an American perspective, and I would assume a British perspective as well, his words seem very arrogant and even cocky.

And although he may very well get away with what he is going in regards to re-Sampling i.e. (cloning) other companies intellectual property, yet in the end it may not matter because his personality seems very abrasive and not conducive to either public relations or retail sales. And because of it Lionstracs may not thrive as well as he hopes it will.

>> Hey Dom! Tone down the rhetoric or you may find your American and British audience shunning the very products that you are trying to get them to buy.

As far as the legality to what he is doing I think there is a grey area in all of this also and he very well could end up on the winning side - at least as far as from possibly not being sued by the Big Three, etc. For instance, Openlabs has the Neko and Meko keyboards that incorporate the use of their Mimik software that can clone Hardware Synths and Modules into the Neko and Meko. The difference with Openlabs is the owner of a Neko or Meko has to do the cloning procedure himself after he has 'already' purchased the keyboard. So the theory goes if I bought a Neko or Meko it is my private personal property and because of it I can therefore clone other keyboards. (Openlabs is probably attesting to the fact that the person doing the cloning is cloning other keyboards or modules that he or she already personally owns also.) Same theory as a Cassette Tape Deck back in the 70's and 80's or even today. "Since I own a Cassette Tape Deck I can therefore make 'personal' copies of the original tapes and use them for my own personal use. Same goes for CD/R players and DVD/R players as well. As long as I have purchased the Tape, CD, or DVD and own the necessary hardware to duplicate them I am legally entitled to do so as long as it is for personal use only and not for profiting. That is the distinguishing difference with Openlabs as apposed to Lionstracs in my opinion. Openlabs is letting the purchaser of a Neko or Meko clone their own synth or module while Lionstracs OTOH is doing it at the factory and from a profiteering perspective in my opinion. Perhaps not by increasing the overall price of a Mediastation per se, but in the anticipation that a significant amount of consumers will be "enticed" to purchase a Mediastation when they see all of the "goodies" that is included in the purchase price.

If Lionstracs can convince enough people to do so then they will have obtained their goal and will have increased their overall bottom line in the process.

So from an ethical standpoint I believe Openlabs is more in line with the law and dare I say most likely even in compliance with it. OTOH, Lionstracs, in my opinion, is treading on thin ice in this matter. Do they even own a Tyros2 or any of the other synths or modules that they are attempting to clone?? Even if they did, they are morally wrong in my opinion because they are doing it from a profiteering motive by cloning other companies intellectual property and using it for their own personal profit and financial gain. And therefore Lionstracs indeed may find themselves mired in litigation over their dubious decision to do so. We will have to wait and see how things eventually pan out. >> You may want to find a good lawyer in the meantime though Dominic.

Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.

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