Hello,

I recently dowloaded some Ketron demo's. I notice the instruments particularly in the Vega sound different from Yamaha and Roland. They sound like 20 times better...I am still a Roland fan but i'll admit i've never heard anything like that before..... So which is the ultimate Ketron keyboard ? X1 ? XD9 Vega etc ..... ?

How come Ketron are not so well known ?

Roland user,
as far as sounds go here is what I think; I guess that I can speak out of experience, because right now I have side by side a VA7, an SD1 and a 9000 pro (not to mention an XD3):

Acoustic piano:
VA7: good and mellow, but needs to be played from a 76 notes, semi-weighed keyboard.
9000 pro: very good and clean (a Yamaha piano, no doubt about it).
SD1: very good and brilliant; more equalized than the others; maybe the best one for rock-pop music. The XD3 piano is cleaner but less rich and natural sounding.

Electric pianos:
VA7: decent ones, but not much choice
9000 pro: the best ones, no questions here.
SD1: forget about them; they will never cut through a mix; better on the XD3 (cleaner but still lacking any spark).

Organs:
VA7: good sounds, but weird selection (some presets are missing; good jazz Hammond though)
900o pro: excellent selection; very clean, the best ones to play jazz and latin tunes; don't forget the flute organs!
SD1: full of guts; excellent for rock-pop music; not so clean as the 9000 pro, but when it comes to rock-pop, who cares... The XD3 has cleaner sounds but less choice; the SD1 is better here.

Accordeons:
VA7: excellent accordeons both for south american music (tango) and french waltzes (musette)
9000 pro: the second one, after the VA7; the sound is too thin; maybe it would be better layering sounds.
SD1: the worst ones; the sound is not so clean as the other two. A little better on the XD3.

Guitar:
VA7: very good acoustic and electric guitars (the distorted and overdrive ones are the best I have heard among all the arrangers)
9000 pro: very good acoustic and jazz guitars (they are SO clean!). Distorted guitars not so good, but acceptable.
SD1: the acoustic are good, but the electric are the worst ones among the three; never used them. Here again the XD3 has cleaner sounds, but still of no use to me.

Strings:
VA7: good, especially the synth strings
9000pro: lush and clean; the choice between VA7 and 9000 pro is really personal here.
SD1: not as clean as Roland or Yamaha but very good in the mid-lower frequencies; they somehow lack very high frequencies, like all the Ketron sounds, but have a lot of body. I guess that they could work very well layered with the 9000 pro strings, which are kind of "thin". XD3: less choice than the SD1 but the sound is again cleaner.

Trumpets and horns:
VA7: good choice but the sound is kind of thin; I love the Mariachi trumpet: one of the reasons to keep the VA7.
9000pro: good sounds, but again thin; they need to be layered. Good trombone and trumpet. Best analog brass among the three.
SD1: the sound is dirty compared with Roland and Yamaha, but they sound more like real horns. Seems like they were played by a more inspired musician. XD3: less choice than SD1 but better sound. Maybe the most expressive trumpet, trombone and flugelhorn, but again not so sparkling like Roland or Yamaha.

Woodwinds:
VA7: best tenor sax (I use it a lot and couldn't do without); good soprano sax. Very good clarinet, oboe and english horn.
9000pro: very good tenor and alto sax and BEST soprano sax (should work very well layered with the Soprano from the VL board: can't wait to get it). Good clarinet.
SD1: very good tenor sax, full of body in the lower registers; not so good in the high register (I always use it in the lower octaves, like in the Sweet Home Chicago solo) In the higher octaves there is a noise of some kind and it sounds too much like "circus music". XD3: worse than the SD1 (the best sounds are missing)

Flutes:
VA7: very good
9000pro: very good or excellent. The pan flute is the best, clean, smooth and silky.
SD1: again, very good and it sports some peculiar sounds too (like "Andes"). The Pan flute sounds better in the XD3, though.

Choir and voices:
VA7: excellent choice. The best one.
9000pro: the choice is good with some interesting sounds, but they are thin compared with the VA7; best results if layered.
SD1: worst one, but with some interesting sounds (like "Soul sister"; wish it was sampled with a better quality and more extension towards the high octaves). XD3: lacks some SD1 sounds.

Synthesizer:
VA7: excellent choice, with many sounds drawn from the JV expansion card "Analog".
9000pro: excellent again; maybe the best leads and some great pads.
SD1: not so clean as the others, but maybe for analog sounds that's a plus. Never used them, but curious to try them out. The XD3 has less choice here.

Drums:
VA7: very good and clean
9000pro: again, very good and clean; maybe the best brushes. For the same reason, maybe the best one for jazz styles.
SD1: full of punch; the best one for rock-pop music. Cymbals lack very high frequencies, though (why didn't Ketron sample their sounds at 44KHz?)

Okay, that's all. Of course it's all subjective, but what isn't? Hope this helps (wow, it was like writing a book...)



[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 11-03-2002).]

Andrea,
Nice and complete comparison....thanks.
Terry

Dreamer ,

I think your comparisons are right on the money . The only exception I would make is the choir sounds .

It will be interesting to see what Ketron implements with the new OS .

dano

Interesting comparison.

Let me add few things to it:

Yamaha PSR9000PRO:

Has excellent flutes, trumpet, solo guitars and strings.

However, in my humble opinion, it fails miserablly in the Piano sound.

The motif piano sounds like PSR9000pro. It is terrible. I believe Yamaha does that intentionally to protect the market share of clavinovas.

sk,
Having had the Motif and a 9k...
It truly is interesting our different opinions on sounds.....for my money, Yamaha has the best pianos.

If we all liked the exact same boards and sounds, our music would all sound the same....how boring that would be huh?
Terry

Being an ex VA76 owner I can honestly say that I thought the sounds and styles in it were rubbish. I prefer my G1000 anyday over a VA76. As for Yamaha, never liked any of their keyboards especially the new Tyros.
The SD1 hasn't got any bad sounds in it to me. As for someone saying they have worse guitars and accordians - who are you trying to kid? The accordians are spot on and guitars when used with the expression pedal set to wah effect or distortion are as close as you can get. If you've got any sense stick with SD1 or better still, get the Genesys it rocks!

Eyerec,
I think that you and I could never get along well.

Eyerec
Your entitled to your opinion but you make it sound like this is the way it is and that’s that. Lighten up....I too have options that I share but don't try to impress upon....
Lou

Dreamer, thanks for taking the time to write such a good and fair comparison.

In all fairness I think its unfair to say the VA76 sounds crap compared to the G1000 since it has all the G1000 sounds in one of its banks and 1600 VA sounds of which most surpass the G1000.

One thing I've always preferred Roland over Yamaha for was the choirs and voice dahs,hahs,lahs etc..

This shows that some people have cotton not just on their ears and eyes, but also inside their brain (if they have got one...)

Its fluffy cotton...sooo soft...

G1000 is no match for the VA7 in the sound department. I stand by that.

Just a tip:
VA7 have ALL the voices of G1000 and a LOT of other voices...

Someone can say that G1000 is better to operate but to say that the G1000 voices are better than VA7 is nonsense.

Chico

If more people would listen, play & compare the SD-1/XD9 sound to othert units they would be convinced for sure.

As many of you probably all know by now, I FINALLY had the opportunity recently to audition (at considerable length) BOTH the SD1 and XD9. Checkout my detailed review here:
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/004964.html

I agree that Ketron styles have a 'certain edge', but I'm quickly becoming convinced that the new 1,920 ppq high resolution Yamaha Tyros 'styles' are going to give the Ketron 'styles' some stiff competition. As far as the Ketron 'sounds' go, some are truly outstanding, while others imho are downright unimpressive. It's obvious that there still is no ONE kb which contains terrific sounds in ALL sound categories. Oh well, I continue to dream for that day.

Donny, Have you begun to play, explore, (and gig) with your new XD9 yet? I'm really anxious to get your candid feedback & real life experiences with your XD9.

Scott

Well, this is purely a matter of taste.

I played new Ketron board for a couple of hours, and my impression is that its voices are a little closed and plastic.

Situation will get better using an external amplifier, but still not as good as other arrangers.

Following my tastes, KORG PA voices are still near the top, with Roland voices very close. To me, Yamaha is a little lower, but I never listen to the new TYROS. And I never listen to the GEM GENESYS too.

Nice comparison, it sounded overall like the 9000 pro comes out top of the boards you've compared though (taken into account all pros and cons).

So where does this leave the Tyros?

Piano sounds - same as 9000 pro, so should please most.

Electric pianos - all the 9000 pro ones plus a few more.

Organs - You can't argue that the Tyros organ repetoire takes some beating! They have improved the footages to 9 and added many of the classic AR1000 theatre organ voices plus those Klaus sounds. Might not be to everyones taste and I've still yet to hear that classic hammond sound, but its close! The digital drawbars too are fun to experiment with in a cute graphical cubase plug-in type display. Steals polyphony though!

Guitars - Ahem... need I say more?

Synth pads - Lots of new pad voices (aka Motif?) but still misses some of those dreamy Korg pads I would love to have.

Lead synth - nice collection of USABLE sounds, can't fault them!

Strings - again lush, warm and realistic. Could do with a few more synth string voices, but dont forget the GM and XG set!

Choir - other than the gothic voice, rather disapointing. I think Roland has better choral sounds.

Bass - the new mega bass sounds are good, but as with all digital synths you never get a smooth deep clean bass without that chiff of digital noise!

Drums - excellent Live! kits and plenty of exotic percussion to play with! More electronic sounds would be nice though.

Accordion - fantastic harmonica, nice small accordion voice but rest perhaps a bit thin. Seldomnly used though.

Flutes - very good in my opinion, though I miss that celtic sound (used in titanic) which the roland does have. Pleeeez yamaha give us that sound! Classical flute is beautiful, sweet flute exciting and superb panflutes. Sweet Oboe is gorgeous!!!!

Percussion - beautifully warm vibes, very nice for jazz and orchestral work. Plenty of dings and dongs.

Brass - Plenty of choice to be honest on the Tyros, though the best combinations use several sounds stacked in the registrations. nice sweet trumpet and other brass voices. Horns are great if not a bit smooth!

Sax - Vastly improved sax section on tyros, though main solo sax's are questionable. Soprano sax is gorgeous aka Kenny G, but alto and tenor neither here or there.. My TG500 still has some of the best sax voices in my opinion! Great ensemble sounds though.

Have I missed anything???

S.



------------------
________________________
Simon G.K. Williams
simon@svpworld.com
Creative Music & Multimedia
http://www.svpworld.com
________________________

scott, I'm still setting the XD9 up for live peformance. Meanwhile I'm playing it in my studio as much as possible. The XD9 is not your play in the store and make a decision kind of KB. If you just want to push buttons without getting your teeth into the KB, the XD9 is not for you. You have to spend some time with it and tweak here and there to get the right sound. It is a very powerfull unit with so many editable features that need attention to create some unbelievable sounding music, But....once you take the time, hook it up to a good sound system, it is very gratifying. I have never heard more realistic sounds and rhythms come out of a arranger keyboard..... More to follow.

Dnj

Never played the Keytron so I can't comment on it. But I can comment on the 9000Pro WITH the expansion boards - the added improved sounds and polyphony provided by the boards puts it over the top in many areas. Where Andrea placed the 9000Pro second in many of his comments, he might have put it in first place if he'd tried the expansions. To date, I haven't heard a better arranger than the 9000 Pro fully expanded. The acoustic piano exp. board is a must-have - it's richer and fuller than the stock 9000 Pro piano and it gives you another 64 notes of polyphony (using this layered with the stock Live! Strings is a joy). I also like the DX expansion board, which gives you real classic DX sounds like electric pianos and organs plus it adds another 16 notes of polyphony. The analog synth and virtual acoustic boards are my least favorite and they add five notes and one note respectively (you can install any two boards in the 9000 Pro). I would use the analog board if I did classic rock and the virtual acoustic board if I used a wind controller, but since they are easy to swap out they come in handy for studio work.

I also believe the 9000 Pro with the acoustic piano board can flat-out beat the acoustic piano of the Tyros in terms of fullness and total polyphony. With the acoustic piano and DX boards installed, the 9000 Pro has a total polyphony of 208 voices. That's hard to beat. Add the 9000 Pro's sampler and 76-note keyboard and you have a beast that remains one of the dominant arrangers in the world today.

I will also add that the Ketron PEDAL Control Utility has more options then any KB I have ever played, its amazing how many things 6 pedals can be assigned to control vs other units.

Sustain
Soft
Sostenuto
Arranger A
Arranger B
Arranger C
Arranger D
In./End. 1
In./End. 2
In./End. 3
Fill 1
Fill 2
Fill 3
Break
Start/Stop
XD9-XD3 74
Count In
Key Start
Key Stop
Tap Tempo
Registr. Up
Registr. Down
Tempo +
Tempo -
minor
7th
m7th
5+
dim
Glide
Kick Off
Snare Off
Hi-Hat Off
Cymbal Off
Tom/Fx Off
Rim Off
Latin1 Off
Latin2 Off
Latin3 Off
Drum Lock
Bass Lock
Chords Lock
Fall Off
Shake
Overdrive
Delay
Wha-Wha
Chorus
Reverb
Distorsor
Text Page-
Text Page+
Vocalizer
Jump Intro
Jump Fill
Dry on Stop
Arabic_1
Arabic_2
Arabic_3
Arabic_4
Arabic_5
Arabic_6
Arabic_7
Arabic_8
Arabic_9
Arabic_10
Arabic_11
Arabic_12
Arabic_13
Micro Dry
Fade Out
Crash
Voice Down
Voice Up
Harmony
Program
Swell
Transposer -
Transposer +
2nd Voice
Hold
Fisa Left Drum
Interact.Arr
Manual Bass
Rotor On/Off
Lead On/Off
Pianist
6th
7th+
Bassist

Another great feature is having TWO LEFT Voices letting you create complex left hand style voice assingments vs one on the 9K. The XD9 also READS TEXT Files created on your P/C while you play. All the editing capabilities and parameters on the XD9 are totaly awesome. More to follow.....



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-04-2002).]

Great insite Donny ,

Ketron is the only arranger (other than GEM ) that allows you to layer 4 sounds at a time and have 4 splits !


dano

Well, here we go again with the eternal debate over arranger sound preferences. Why don't we discuss something less subjective, such as favorite colors?

Donny,

Can you explain this feature a little better?
Thanks in advance.

-- José.

Jose,

On my Psr9k there is only ONE assignable Left voice.

On the XD9 there are TWO assignable Left Voices, soooo you can.. eg: make left-1 Strings, and Left-2 Choir to create a nice warm effect to your syles. The combinations are endless.

Hey Donny .....I know a great combination .............................................................................

Beer + Crabs . dano

Oh man!! STOP IT!!!!!!!!

Dan.... those were the best tasting and Biggest JUMBO CRABS I EVER HAD!! What a great day I had at your store.. Playing the XD9, SD-1, seeing You and AJ again, going out for a Super Dinner with Nick and You and eating CRABS, not to mention the fantastic Maryland Crab Chowder, Cream of Crab Soup, and mini Crab Balls appetizer with a Super Salad and Beer!!! A great memorable day that I won't forget!!

Life Is Good !!

Dnj



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-04-2002).]

Ok, I misunderstood your original sentence! In the X-series one can mix two sounds in the right part of the keyboard, I don't think one can do same thing with the left part...

Thanks,

-- José.

Accually with the PROGRAMS feature on Ketron products it would be possible to assign up to 4 sounds to the left voice .


I do believe the X1 did have 2 assignable sounds to the left voice .


dano

"Hello? department of redundancy department, DanO speaking "

Here is my 1 1/2 cent......

To answer which is the best sound........Just get all of them........each KB has a sound that you'll like that other one don't have. Also it makes the music comes more alive anyway. I use a X1, yamaha, roland and I even still use the R-8 roland drum machine. Maybe, I'm just strange, but I think it different sound from different board it makes it sound more alive........that is just my opinion........

Just want to say "HI" to all the friends in here..........