Any tips, websites, exercise ? Preferably free...

Lukitoh:

The final (last) chord of the song (typically a I chord in 99% of all songs) is almost always the 'key' of the tune as well. To determine the key of a song (in my head), I'll sing/play the last few measures of the song and figure out the last chord. The last melody note is most often (though not always) the root, 3rd, or 5th of the chord. The chord preceding the last chord is usually (in pop music) a V7 or IV chord.

I recommend listening to the final cadence of the song to hear how the V7 or IV resolves to the I (tonic) chord (key of the song).

Hope that helps.

Scott

Thanks, Scott. What I mean is how do you determine the key that a song is played by ear ?

So, lets say I am listening to a tune on a tape and then by ear (not with keyboard), I can say it is played in the key of F or whatever. If I have a keyboard, I can always find the key after a few pushes here and there. But I want to get the key right away.

You obviously don't have perfect pitch. Don't feel bad, neither do most of us. But you can acquire what's called relative pitch. I pretty much can do that more often than not. Try to get a song or scale permanently set in your head. Use the song or scale as a reference. With practice and hearing lots of tunes in a similar key, you can get pretty good. Of course there are classes that can teach it to you and I'm sure we have others here at SZ who can give far better advice. Good luck.

Just hummmm ( even if its just in your head ), then walk your hummm scale...when you get to the right note just trans that to your instrument. lol look you picked the right note on the first try Te Heeee.

Past that if you wish...just get someone to hit a note on your keyboard for you, and think the scale then pick the note. After doing that just for fun, many notes will just start to stand out to you and your dependence on "scale in your head" will get smaller.

But a side tip...pending the quality of your tape deck, the tape your playing ( and other factors ). What your hearing from the tape isn't going to be exactly in pitch ( with say solid 440/438 whatever ), its a good idea to find a song on the tape to tune your instrument to.

Do-Re-Mi-Fa-so-la-ti-Do!

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 10-11-2004).]

Find the Bass
Lukitoh...Have you got a "favourite" song, one that plays over & over in your head. Get comfortable with the key, with the pitch. From there, it's all just math. Compare the bass note of the new song with that of your most favourite. I'm probably not explaining this as well as I would like to.
As cassp stated...perfect pitch is a definite plus, but we don't all possess that luxury.
Good Luck in your endeavours


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...L

Bingo! Shboom states it well & hit it right on the nail here. The bass player not only lays the harmonic foundation of the song, but the LAST note (of the song) the 'bass player' plays is nearly always the root note of the tonic (I) chord, and key of the song as well. - Scott

I don't have problems recognizing the key of a particular song. It is usually the beginning chord or the last chord. That is not my problem.

My problem, is lets say someone is singing a tune and then without a keyboard, I cannot determine which key it is. Right now to determine a key I have to get in front of an instrument, push a few keys to find that key because the keyboard has a perfect pitch. And I don't. I can play a tune in a keyboard perfectly and memorized all the chords in it but then when someone sings it, I cannot determine which key the person sings. Does anybody get it ?

In other words, lets say I usually plays a song in a key of C. If someone sings in a key of D, I would not be able to tell without using an instrument and actually pressing the keys, what key the person sings.

It would be a perfect world if 9 times out of 10, the singers first note was either the tonic (root), the third, or the fifth. Obviously this is not always the case.
As Scott stated with regards to the last chord, what I've discovered is very often, the last chord, or sometimes the last sung note of the first verse is also an indication of the key.
What with so many different time signatures, major & minor keys, and just poetic licence in general, not to mention a singer's personal stylizing, I can't really see anyway of having a set rule cast in stone. Again, my best advice, I could offer would be....
...Find the Bass.
Good Luck.

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...L

[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 10-11-2004).]

I am sometimes credited with perfect pitch. I'm personally unconvinced... but if I can hum a song I can usually work out the top notes of the melody line by comparing the notes to the upper limit of my vocal range.
I know what it feels like when I sing a G or A and so I can use this to establish the melody line notes and then work "down" to get the bass. After that working out the key is just a bit more relative pitch comparison but also using knowledge of the way chords sound in an ensemble, especially when the bass is NOT the root or fifth, and the chord is NOT pure (e.g. diminished, suspended , augmented, added 7's 9's 11' etc).

Or to summarise

Practice.

I do have perfect pitch. My brother does not. He has absolute pitch, or maybe relative, can't remember which is which. He can hum a B flat in his head perfectly. He is a clarinet player, so in high school and college band the tuning note was B flat. He got that note engrained in his mind. From there he can figure out what key a song is in by counting half steps in his head. He is dead accurate 75 to 80% of the time, and only a half step off the rest of the time. This is your best bet for being able to do it. Get one key so solid in your head that you can hear it in your head without actually hearing it, then just think half steps up or down from there.

These guys are all right on the money ... unless you have perfect pitch, you'll need SOME sort of referance to use. Maybe a tuning fork, or pocket tuner?
(not to be confused with "pocket TUNA" .. that stuff stinks ! )

While the song is playing, plunk out some single notes on your keyboard. You should quickly find where "Do" is.

That is what I already told you guys that if I have a keyboard and hit a key, then I can find the "do" easily because the keyboard provided me with a reference note.

But what I want is to be able to do all that in my head without hitting a single key on the board and be able to hear a song with my ear and say what key it is playing - all in my head. Get it ?

Yes, we do GET IT!

If you're not born with perfect pitch, you MUST develop good 'note interval' recognition (both ascending & descending):

Unison
Minor 2nd
Major 2nd
Minor 3rd
Major 3rd
Perfect 4th
Tritone (flatted fifth or augmented 4th)
Perfect 5th
Minor 6th
Major 6th
Minor 7th
Major 7th
Octave


and referred to as relative pitch. Once you are able to instantly recognize intervals as well as have an absolute recognition of at least ONE specific pitch (such as A 440, or middle C on the piano) then . . .

when you hear the last (bass) note of a song, you'll be able to quickly determine the key they're playing in by taking the note you have stored in your brain in absolute memory in your head (say middle C), determine the interval distance between the two notes and almost instantly know the key they are playing in.

Check out this link for more on this topic: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/008839.html

- Scott

What we all have been saying applies to your ear, not the keyboard. So, if you learn a song or a scale and know what key it is in, then by listening to a few notes you should be able to tell how far up or down your reference scale it is. Let's say you play Misty in Eb and someone comes up and starts singing it - in a different key - as you hear the first three notes ask your self "is it higher or lower than mine." Then by using your reference scale, determine if it's one or two or two and a half steps aay from you. As was said earlier, you have to know basic major and minor scales to do this. Now, does this help?

Lukitoh,
IMHO you can't do it. I play melody notes by ear, but need the chords in front of me. Even with the chords in front of me, I need to know the 1st note, then I'm off. Even if I knew a song backwards, and could play it without the chords in front of me (fully memorized), I would not be able to know if a singer was singing this song 1/2 tone up or down. Well that's just me.
You want to be able to jump in WHILE the singer is singing, without hitting a couple of notes, and start accompaniment. You don't want to wait till the song is finished, its too late at that point. This is a praise & worship scenario, with the worship leader playing a new song, but one you recognize, in a new key.
Starkeeper

[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 10-14-2004).]

I remember a situation during a service where a guitarist and his singer/wife were up to perform. The worship team knew before hand the song, with chords, they were to play, but the guitarist played it in a different key!!! Typical guitarist, NIgel excepted. The musicans were all looking at one another with expressions on their faces that read like, what the .... is he doing. They all just stood there and did not accompany them. They didn't even try to figure out what key was in. I think I would have made an attempt, and once I figured it out, just use the transpose button.
Starkeeper




[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 10-14-2004).]

What is the point of finding the key immediatly? That ability is only for the small minority with perfect pitch. Finding a singer's key is done ahead of time.

[This message has been edited by alfredo (edited 10-14-2004).]

Alfredo,
This is a praise & worship scenario, with (possibly) a new worship leader playing a song you recognize and know, but in a new key. You never played with this person before and they didn't dicuss which songs they would sing and in what key.
Think of this as an impromptu jam session, where you have heard the song before, know the lyrics, etc., but don't know what key the singer will sing in. Now, how do you jump in and start playing without hitting keys on the keyboard?
Lukitoh, jump in if I am off base here.
Starkeeper

Sounds like " Fingertips, Part II" - you have to check that out (Stevie Wonder, mid 60's). Also, as the keyboard player, you have the ability to hit a few 'random' notes that will help you identify what the key is. I've heard keyboard and guitar players do this very skillfully and no one ever knew they were searching for the key.

I think what you want to do is paractically impossible unless you have perfect or near perfect pitch, which we've already discussed. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 10-15-2004).]

Starkeeper is right, that is the scenarios I am dealing with where a new song that was not rehearsed AND suddenly gets asked and I am sometimes at a loss to find the key quickly. Once I got it, then I can play all the chords and accompaniment quite readily.

BINGO:
"Also, as the keyboard player, you have the ability to hit a few 'random' notes that will help you identify what the key is. I've heard keyboard and guitar players do this very skillfully and no one ever knew they were searching for the key."

That's what I do and it's no problem. One, two or three notes played in time and I know where "Do" is.

[This message has been edited by alfredo (edited 10-15-2004).]