With reference to this Funky demo it seems that the Brass sounds didn't change a lot from G600/G1000/VA7/76. It seems that Roland always uses the same timber for brass sounds. This is not applicable to the piano sound and nylon guitar which are really fanatastic.

Godfrey

Funk demo not bad - sounds a bit like a Korg PA played through a system with some thick-ish cloth over the tweeters

Sure, and you're not biassed at all .

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Tom NL

Mike,
You are right about the (fading) high frequencies. I'm pretty sure this is caused by the MP3 encoding-software.
The quality of the first three demo's is much better, I think.

Could also be due to the quality, or lack of it, of the pc-speakers. Without knowing what your speakerset you use of course Mike, so I'm not judging it.


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Tom NL

Dead right - I'm a Roland VA-76 owner of some 2 years standing ;-)

Someone else suggested that it might be the MP3 coding on the demo, but I don't think so. Judging by my VA, Roland's tones seem to lack subtle detail in some odd way and the overall sound of their keyboards is very smooth & sort-of polite.

Their instruments do seem to have a nicely rounded, rich and full bass end, but the higher frequencies seem too simple, hard to describe the effect in words. Almost like a shortage of harmonics that only register subconciously, but which make a big difference to overall clarity and punch.

Korg's sounds generally seem to have more "air" around them within the instrument's overall mix, and are well defined as a result. Roland's, on the other hand, seem to merge together so that each tone tends to get lost a bit within the total sound of a track.

I find the VA a totally none-inspirational instrument. Always have. It gets used only to set it up for gigs, for occassional recording, and on the actual gigs themselves. Otherwise, it stays in it's flight case. The idea of sitting down at it for pleasure rarely occurs....... It seems a very old fashioned sounding thing, and is a complete joke as a live arranger. Unusable. It does fulfil the specific purpose I bought it for.

In comparison, I previously owned a Korg i3, which almost got worn out through being played to death, as it was such a pleasure to jam with in true arranger mode. It was a proper MUSICAL instrument.

Just so you don't think I really am too biased, I also bought a Korg i30HDD not long after they came out, but again found that -whilst it had some very good individual sounds inside - it's overall sound was somewhat dull & muffled in comparison with it's older brother (it seems that I'm not alone in this opinion). That, plus various other backward steps in it's design, rather negated the obvious improvements Korg had made over the earlier i3.

I eventually got fed up with the i30HDD and sold it, having never gigged the thing. Meanwhile the ancient i3 kept coming up with the goods.

My ideal instrument would probably be an arranger with Korg's sounds & styles, plus Roland's midifile handling abilities and intelligent use of storage for seamless on-the-fly access to files.

Oh - and could we have the old i3's nice big start/stop, style variation, break and into/ending buttons back please - right in the middle, where they belong (that should provoke some debate, if nothing else does)!

Mike, these are interesting observations you have made. I own a Tyros and a Roland XV 3080 with three expansion cards and in the past have often tried to record something using both instruments, even just layering sounds, but have always had to give up because -compared with the Tyros- the 3080 seemed to lack something in clarity or definition. I don't know if the culprit is the poor effect section or the fact that Roland waveforms are reportedly heavily compressed, but I can only hope that the G 70 does not suffer from the same problems because I am really looking for a 76 notes keyboard with semi-weighed action to add to my Tyros, always waiting for the Tyros II....

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited 12-02-2004).]

It sounds is if you are hearing Rolands sounds the same way that they strike me.

I have always approached the sounds of any arranger keyboard in the same way you would deal with a multi-track recording. That is to say that an instrument tone which sounds good when heard on it's own, may not sit happily in amongst the other instruments in a particular mix.

Equally the reverse can be true. A particular track or "instrument tone" may sound quite poor on it's own, but fits a particular mix just right.

For this reason, when looking at a new arranger with a view to purchase, I not only make a point of trying out a good selection of individual sounds on their own, but also seeing how certain key tones (i.e. the ones that tend to be most important to me) come across as part of the overall sound flavour of the keyboard.

As an example, there tends to be a fair bit of comment on Synthzones boards regarding the merit or otherwise of the basic grand piano sound available on each arranger model. My own experiences with mostly Korg and Roland stuff in recent years, suggests that both manufacturers piano tones are not very convincing when heard on their own, although they are very different from each other in character. However, I find the bright "up-front" piano sounds typical of the korg to be far more useful than the more mellow (dare I say muffled?) character of the Roland. The Korg piano sounds can cut through, when needed. The Roland's sounds just don't.

You're comment that Rolands samples may be more highly compressed is interesting. The "something missing" from the typical Roland tonality that I was trying to describe would fit with this possibility. It's rather like hearing a MP3 track versus a WAV file original.

A bit like the taste of cheese and onion flavour crisps (chips) compared with a really good lump of cheddar, together with a slice of hot spanish onion - if you see what I mean :-)

Mike, thanks for you're very balanced judgement on this subject. It's obvious that it is not just some over-simplified statement.

Funny, because the reason that I, as a current Technics KN6500 player, am leaning towards Roland again just because I miss the clarity and the crisp sounds my previous Roland had. I find the Technics somewhat "muffled", especially when I just had the board at home. My ears are much more used to it now.

Of course I checked out the PA1X Pro, but found the voices (especially the GrandPiano) a bit thin or shrill (I am not English, so please forgive me if I don't use the proper terms). But it could very well have been the headphones I heared this board on in the music store.

You are absolutely right that you have to listen to the result of the total mix. Sometimes a single instrument sound is better in the mix than heared on it's own.

In one thing the Technics shines though, and that is the brass sounds. Those are better than what I heared on any Roland. This is what I want to try on the G-70 when it is in the stores. I expect that Roland has made an improvement in this section. They must have if you hear the sound samples of the Fantom X for instance. But then again, first listen then believe .

Oh, and I think they deliberately put the start/stop, style variation, break and into/ending buttons on the left side so you can operate them more easily with your left hand. With arranger keyboard players that is, somewhat regrettably, the more "passive" hand...

Hi guys,

I am new to the discussion board, but have been folowing it a little.

I own a VA-76 and have to admit that the internal sounds are basically JUNK. But somehow I've managed to get them to sound decent with the internal EQ. I didn't like the VA76 that much, but I bought it because of the zip drive, and because the good old G800 was worn out.

I was looking for something spectacular from the new G, but it didn'f impress me at all. I think that Roland is running around in circles and loosing the battle to KORG and Yamaha. The New G should have a SAMPLER, but they missed the call.

Now ME and probably 40 other guys that I know ( VA owners also ), are switching to PA1x pro and the 9000 pro. The capabilities of these instruments will beat the G-70 any time.

It really hurts to part with Roland, but they simply don't offer anything for the money!

just to mantion, me and these other guys earn our living with these arrangers.

Greetings to everybody!