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#205701 - 08/06/01 01:10 PM Re: Media Players : WHICH is your FAVORITE (for Streaming Audio)?
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Scott,
I made a little research and came to the conclusion that Windows Media Player is going to become the standard for audio reproduction due to its codecs, of superior quality.
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Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#205702 - 08/06/01 01:18 PM Re: Media Players : WHICH is your FAVORITE (for Streaming Audio)?
Nobby Offline
Member

Registered: 09/17/00
Posts: 707
Loc: Palmyra Mo. U.S.A.
Scott,
The Microsoft Media player ver. 7.1 is the the best I've ever used. It has a small and full version when you change it to the full version it has a library for saving all of the tracks you want to keep! Plus many other
features to numerious to mention.
My opinion,
Nobby
PS. Download it! It's free!

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[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 08-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 08-06-2001).]
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#205703 - 08/06/01 11:14 PM Re: Media Players : WHICH is your FAVORITE (for Streaming Audio)?
COMALite J Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 86
Loc: Shreveport, LA, USA

Ac­tu­al­ly, I pre­fer Ap­ple’s Quick­Time ov­er eith­er Win­dows Me­dia Play­er or Real­Me­dia. The rea­sons are pret­ty tech­nic­al and get in­to the sheer power for mul­ti­me­dia in the var­i­ous plat­forms, and Quick­Time is just by far the most pow­er­ful.

But I re­al­ize that the main point of in­ter­est to this Top­ic is in the qual­i­ty of the au­dio co­decs. In this re­gard, Win­dows Me­dia 7 (and the forth­com­ing 8) are in fact quite good, bet­ter than Real 8 for the most part. But they’re both up against Q-De­sign’s Q-Mu­sic co­dec, which has been in­cluded in va­ri­ous ver­sions in Quick­Time since ver­sion 3 (now, Quick­Time 5 in­cludes Q-Mu­sic 3, the la­test and great­est ver­sion of this co­dec). The ol­der Ver­sion 4.2 of the Win­dows Me­dia En­co­der (re­leased around the same time as Win­dows Me­dia Play­er 6.3/6.4) in­cluded some co­decs that Win­dows Media 7 and 8 have dropped, and I found them the best of all: Vox­Ware’s mu­sic and speech co­decs. I used their mu­sic codec, via Win­dows Me­dia En­co­der 4.2, to pro­duce the .ASF ver­sion of the demo I did for the “Search for the Ul­tim­ate Sax” Top­ic in this For­um last week. Of all the codecs I had tried for en­co­ding a short VL trom­bone sam­ple I had made as a demo of Dig­it­al Ear’s out­stand­ing au­dio-to-MIDI tech­nol­o­gy, only Vox­Ware had a high-qual­ity mon­o­phon­ic co­dec (both the Win­dows and Real co­decs seemed to as­sume that one would only want high qual­ity if one also want­ed ster­eo, and since I was doing a mon­o­phon­ic sample, why should I waste half my band­width on two chan­nels when I only need­ed one?), and only Vox­Ware would let me get to a rea­son­ab­ly low samp­ling rate (as it turns out, about 64k/sec for 16-bit mono) without hav­ing a weird “wind chimes” type dis­tor­tion ar­tif­act­ing show up on the breathy at­tacks of the VL trom­bone sound. I had to go to at least 96k/sec. to get rid of that using any other co­dec, or else could not get rid of it at all, in­clu­ding with my pre­vi­ous fa­vo­rite, Ya­ma­ha’s own Sound­VQ (a li­censed ver­sion of Twin­VQ, the first of these “su­per-co­decs” that are at least twice as good as .MP3 in com­pres­sion at the same qual­i­ty, or qual­i­ty at the same com­pres­sion — Twin­VQ pre-dates Real G2, Win­dows Me­dia 6, Vox­Ware, etc. by sev­er­al years at least!). I later learned that the “wind chimes” ar­tif­act­ing was part­ly caused by too high sound lev­els in my source au­dio — such co­decs need extra “head­room” with which to work their mag­ic ef­fec­tive­ly, so one should not do the usual prac­tice of nor­mal­iz­ing the gain to 100% on audio in­tend­ed to be com­pressed with mod­ern co­decs. Nor­mal­ize to about 90% in­stead. Some­time I will have to com­pare them again us­ing the same source clip but nor­mal­ized to 90% to el­im­in­ate that cause of ar­tif­act­ing, and see which co­dec wins out.

I do like how ev­en Ver­sion 6.4 of Win­dows Me­dia Play­er will au­to­mat­ic­al­ly down­load the co­decs need­ed to play a clip en­co­ded in Win­dows Me­dia 7 or ev­en 8 (so no need to set­tle for an ol­der co­dec to av­oid lock­ing out users with ol­der play­ers, nor do you need to down­load the la­test and great­est play­er just to be sure you can play all the new­est con­tent). Real also has a sim­il­ar ab­il­i­ty now. I like Win­dows Me­dia Play­er 7’s SRS Wow! (a sort of ster­eo-wide) and TruBass (a Bass en­han­cer that fools the ear into think­ing it’s hear­ing bet­ter bass than the speak­ers are phys­ic­al­ly ca­pab­le of re­pro­du­cing [mere­ly up­ping the bass gain, like typ­ic­al Loud­ness or Bass Boost sys­tems do, just re­sults in dis­tor­tion when the bass cap­ac­i­ty of the speak­ers is ex­ceed­ed], using psy­cho­ac­ous­tics) tech­nol­o­gies, which make just about an­y­thing sound bet­ter.

It’s im­por­tant to re­mem­ber here that not all me­dia that comes over the Web is “stream­ing.” That term is only used for me­dia that you can lis­ten to or view as it comes ac­ross, rath­er than hav­ing to wait for some or all of it to down­load first. My .ASF file above is not stream­ing, though it has the “.asf” ex­ten­sion that Mi­cro­soft now re­serves for stream­ing me­dia (non-stream­ing clips get either .WMA for Win­dows Me­dia Au­dio, or .WMV for Win­dows Me­dia Vid­eo). To be stream­ing, the file needs to have a spec­ial struc­ture (es­pec­ial­ly if you want to sup­port mul­tip­le bit­rates in a sin­gle file [this, by the way, is a major weak­ness of Win­dows Me­dia: both Quick­Time and Real­Media al­low this for au­dio, but Win­dows Me­dia can only do it for vid­eo — each Win­dows Me­dia stream­ing file can only have one au­dio track / stream, no mat­ter how many vid­eo tracks / streams it may have]), and be served by spec­ial ser­ver soft­ware run­ning at the host­ing ser­vice (Win­dows Me­dia Ser­ver, Real­Ser­ver, Quick­Time Stream­ing Ser­ver, etc.) that sup­ports real-time In­ter­net pro­to­cols such as MMS: (Mi­cro­soft Mul­ti­me­dia Stream­ing), RTSP: (Real­Time Stream­ing Pro­to­col), UDP, Mul­ti­Cast, etc. The HTTP pro­to­col used by Web sites is suit­ab­le for down­load­ing (as is FTP and other TCP-based pro­to­cols), but not for real-time work. TCP is in­tend­ed more for re­li­ab­il­i­ty than speed, and will re-trans­mit any pack­ets that get gar­bled or lost in tran­sit to guar­an­tee that the data gets to its des­tin­a­tion in­tact. This sort of thing is high­ly de­si­rab­le for Web pa­ges, down­loads, on­line da­ta trans­ac­tion pro­ces­sing, etc., but not for an­y­thing real-time such as games, con­fer­en­cing, or stream­ing me­dia. If a pac­ket gets lost or gar­bled, better to ac­cept the loss and move on (which might show up as a bit of sta­tic or maybe a short break in the au­dio, or some weird “snow” or pix­el­a­tion in the vid­eo) rath­er than put ev­er­y­thing on hold while gen­er­a­ting and/or wait­ing for a re­try (which would mean a sol­id stop in the rec­ep­tion and play­back while the play­er re-buf­fers). UDP does this mov­ing-on in­stead of re­try­ing thing, as do the oth­er, more spe­cial­ized stream­ing pro­to­cols I men­tioned. All this said, down­load­ed au­dio can and usu­al­ly does ac­tu­al­ly sound bet­ter than streami­ng, since you’re not lim­it­ed to the band­width of the user’s con­nec­tion. Per­fect­Play-type de­layed play­back start fea­tures (which all maj­or play­ers now support, in­clu­ding Sound­VQ) goes a long way to­wards al­le­vi­a­ting the pain­ful de­lay one has when hav­ing to down­load all of a huge file be­fore get­ting to ex­per­i­ence any of it.


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#205704 - 08/06/01 11:22 PM Re: Media Players : WHICH is your FAVORITE (for Streaming Audio)?
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
THANKS to everyone for their valuable input here. Based on the responses, I decided to change all the 'streaming audio' song files on my website to Windows Media Player format. I hope you will checkout my songs and in particular, my newest one, "Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying". - Scott http://scottyee.com
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