Hello everyone! Although this is my first post, I've been reading most everything for quite some time now. The thing is I don't own an arranger, but been thinking in buying me one. It could be a Tyros 2 or G-70 or both depending on your answer to my question which is: Can an arranger be used as a regular synth? I mean, can I just use the preset sounds in layers and splits and not use the arranger functions? I play in a band and wanna know if I can do this so I can get rid of my synths and get me one or two of these toys instead(they seem to be more fun). Anyway thanks in advance for your replies.

Hi jpapas, welcome to SZ. The short answer to your question is yes. But why spend the many extra dollars on the Arranger functions if you are not going to use them?
Jon

dear friend,

Pro Arrangers are a different beast compared to synth workstations. Your equation is not really correct in all regards.

Just to help: if you use your keaboard to play live (ie. u don't use complex programming, sequencing, phrases and loops a lot), and mainly play the "voices" (sounds), then a pro arranger can do this as well as your synths do. I'd venture to say that some new arrangers (T2 for example) have even better sounds that some synths, and definetly include the vast majority of those functions (split mode that you mentioned).

On top of this, Arrangers do much more than simply play sounds, are more user friendly in sequencing and programming, and as you said, are fun to play. In most cases, they result inspiring to the player.

I personally owned quite a few synths in the past (Roland D50, Ydx7, SY77, Korg 01Wfd, EMU modules, etc), then got rid of most of them and went for a simpler solution: arranger+piano+pc.

The final answer is up to what you need/like, and the money you can spend. Most of us on this forum find that a good arranger, with the help of a digital piano and a PC, can provide an excellent pro equipment in most circumstances.

Good luck

Amelio

Yes you could. You would just keep the arranger off. When you are not playing with the band, you could practive at home, in full keyboard mode with the arranger on.
Another alternative is to keep you synths and use OMB arranger software on you PC to create the backing styles and drive the chords through MIDI hookup. You would save a ton of money.
Starkeeper

Thanks for he answer JonPro. The arranger functions would be for use at home when I play by myself and the synth when I play with my band.
Now I have to sell my MoES8 and my mo7 so I can
afford the arrangers.

Yes you can use an arranger in a band.

For maximum usability and versatility for both home arranger use and band use, I would get one of the arrangers that have lots of sound expansion capabilities (loading samples and extensive sound editing features) board like the Gem Genesys, Tyros 2 and Pa1x.

jpapas,

almost all arrangers will allow you to split and layer, and most will do it easier than the regular synth - for example, Tyros allows you to layer up to three sounds for the right half of the keyboard, and a separate sound for the left hand. Roland (G70) allows you to split the keyboard into up to three zones, and layer two sounds for the right hand, two for the left hand, and have an additional sound for the middle section. I think Ketron allows up to 4 zones, but they have to be set up ahead of time (as programs). Some of the lower-end arrangers will not play the left hand sounds unless the auto-accompaniment is going (though you could mute the accompaniment part), but I don't believe this is an issue with any high-end instrument. Of course, any arranger can be played in the full keyboard mode, where you do not use splits, and simply play the right hand voice(s) across the entire keyboard.

Keep in mind, though, that for the most part, the arrangers are made to play back the built-in sounds, and any high-end arranger will do it very well, with large quantities of very high quality sounds. While some arrangers (especially Korg PA1X) will allow you to create new sounds, that is not the primary purpose of the arranger, so sound-editing tools are usually buried in the menus. The synths, on the other hand, make emphasis on creating new sounds, and will usually provide knobs and buttons right up front to make this task easier. Keep this difference in mind if creating sounds is a priority for you. Some new arrangers let you expand the sound set via expansion boards, or sampling, but for a die-hard sound creation enthusiast the arranger capabilities may fall short.

On the other hand, if you like to play and not to tweak, arrangers are way more fun, and will provide you musical gratification right out of the box.

Good luck,
Alex

jpapas,

That's exactly how I use my arranger. I use a Tyros 1 on top for acoustic sounds, layers, quick patch changes, etc. My bottom keyboard is either a Korg Triton Extreme 76 or a Motif ES 88. When I'm really feeling funky I midi the Motif or Korg to the Tyros and dedicate the Right 3 voice to control via midi.

At home, I use the Tyros for rehearsals, solo practice, etc.

Synth is a pretty broad term jpapas. It really depends on what you're going to do. When I think of a "synth", neither of these types of boards are the first thing to come to mind for me. Boards like a Nord lead, Prophet 5, Moog Voyager, V-synth.... these are what I think of. Still, a sample based workstation is definitely a type of synth.

Really, In my way of thinking, the short answer is if you already have an Es and a regular Mo, and you don't need the phrase factory functions and arps, the mlan setup, or access for plug ins like the AN150 or PLG piano board, etc, then something like a Tyros II could probably suitably replace one or both of your boards for what you want to do.

I didn't mention the sampling functions on the Motif series because to me they are hardly worth the bother vs inexpensive and much more intuitive software samplers.

If you're looking for a synth to do primarily analogue ( or an modeled ) stuff or cutting edge synth voices, then neither an arranger or a workstation would be the best choices.

AJ

WOW thanks everyone for all your replies. When I First watched the demo videos for the G-70 I wasn't sure if I could substitute my MoES8 with an arranger and looking for that info was how I
found this forum. Unfortunately I was soon discouraged from getting the G-70 because of all the bad comments about it. I was also confused because these comments didn't match with what I was hearing in the videos, in these the G-70 sounded incredible. And then the news that Yamaha was releasing the Tyros 2; man I was crossing my fingers for it to be a 76 keys board, that way I could also use it as a digital piano, but alas no 76 keys oh well, and since I'm not into sound tweaking and use mostly acoustic sounds I guess it's time for an arranger baby. I'm still struggling with the idea of letting the MoES8 go because I love that monster, the feel of its keybed is just incredible and the sounds are amazing, so I'm gonna start by selling the mo7 and getting the Tyros 2, and the we'll about that G-70.

jpapas

The G70 live in your studio sounds excellent. Please do not be swayed by nay-sayers. It's got balls and functions up the gazzooooo.

Half the nay-sayers of the G70 on this forum have barely PLAYED one. 20 minutes in a store through crappy speakers on an instrument the dealer hasn't bothered to upgrade to the latest OS and styles is hardly a fair comparison.

My own feeling is, were it not for the dated styles in the G70 (and you CAN get third-party and converted styles for it) the only thing it has got going against it is it's weight! (I kid.......!)

As a live keyboard in a band (what I use it for, mostly) I can tell you IT ROCKS!! Great piano, great B3, incredible action (better than Yamaha, no doubt), easy access to all the tone balancing/shaping tools and intuitive interface.

I can gig with it and not need to set up Performance setups in advance (can't do that with my K2500!). Just select tones on the fly and balance volumes and effect with the sliders. Easy.

Too many bedroom jockeys posting their opinions here as if they had any real experience. My advice is go play a G70 (make sure it's OS2) BEFORE you buy anything else. The action alone makes it a true professional instrument (can you play piano on 60 keys? I can't!).

Yamaha sounds real slick by itself, but put it in a band situation, and there's not enough 'cut' (for me, at least).

jpapas,

just to echo Diki's comments: all of today's high-end arrangers sound very good. Their sounds have various nuances (e.g. Roland is more smooth, Korg-synthy, Yamaha-polished). For many of us this will make a difference, but to be sure, most of us would be able to make a gig with any high-end arranger out there.

The sounds (and styles) are very subjective things - some people love them, and others hate them - again, in comparison to models from current high-end another brand. With a few exceptions, the sounds and styles of any today's top arranger are better than those of any top arranger of 10 years ago. My advice to you is to go by your own ear, not by ours - it all depends on what you like to hear and what music you play.

The major differences between brands are in features: the feel and length of the keyboard, the weight, ease of navigation (all the best sounds/styles are useless if you can't get to them quickly during a performance), specialized chord recognition (read the posts on rootless chords), storage options (do you need a hard drive or will 2 gig memory card be enough?), sampling, etc.

In some ways, the arranger preference is like the PC vs MAC arguments - the PC people will say that MAC is crap, and the MAC people will say that PC is junk, but in reality either one will do most things perfectly well.

So now that you have read the concerns of the members of this forum about various keyboards, to to the music store and figure out if these concerns are going to be showstoppers for you. If yes - scratch the instrument off your list, no - put a checkmark next to it. At the end of your search you will have a better idea of what will work for you.

Keep us posted on what you settle on, and keep visiting this forum - amid all the chatter there is really a lot of valuable information to be learned.

Regards,
Alex

Diki, How would you categorize the action on the g-70? semiweighted or synth action?

I'd call it semi-weighted, but describing the 'touch' in words is futile, at best.

I consider the G70's action as the best plastic action on the planet, but is is not wood. Realize, though, that piano is only one of hundreds of different sounds in the G70, most of which benefit from a lighter-than-piano action (ever tried to do organ licks on a piano action - ouch!).

I think the only way for you to get a good description is for you to play one (the G1000 and VA76's actions were VERY similar, if you can't find a G70), and see for yourself. It will spoil you for anything else!

A couple of things to mention here. Alex says the G70 can have 3 voices in a layer. Actually, that is not correct. You can layer up to 6 sounds. Even though you only see up1, up2 and up3 buttons, the low1, low2 and MB buttons can also be spread over the entire keyboard allowing up to 6 sounds in your layer across the entire 76 notes.
I would also mention, that Lou Y, who has posted a comment above mine, has purchased a G70 from me and will also be getting a Korg PA1XPRO because of their style selections.
I would also like to state, with do respect to others opinions here, that the few that have knocked the G70 are not the majority of users here. The G70 sounds and features are quite outstanding. If there are any complaints from me, a music store owner, I wish they would have more new styles up at their website quicker than they are doing. However, there are other companys making styles available by the hundreds although not free! Roland has assured me that more styles will follow at their Roland Keyboard Club website.
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California

Thanks Diki and George. I guess I'll have to make some driving since none of my local dealers has the g-70. I already made a phone call to get a quote (I was asked for my zip code cause they wanted to make sure I didn't live out of CA) and got a pretty good offer.