Ohhhh my God!Yamaha has gone mad and
going to put an end to the sale of their
so called PSR toys.I simply wonder about
future of Yamaha.Alas!!

technicsplayer,

In other words, they are supporting conversion other styles to their keyboard but preventing others from converting from their keyboard styles. I think what can EMC style works do is continue conversion but change the first 5 notes in the intro and ending exactly what those people are doing.

no, not preventing at all, just 6500 format. The keyboard will load the previous 3 generations of technics formats, and the EMC allows conversion to and from between about 5 generations of technics formats.

Likewise you can convert these 5 or 6 previous generations of technics formats into Yamaha, Solton or others with the Universal or their own respective individual EMC programs, so no limitations there.

If EMC can't work out how to do 6500 format yet, maybe that's their problem? The style conversion that comes with the 6500 is just an extra included in the price that most others don't have.

The first 4 or 5 notes, I meant the actual intro\ending programmed into a keyboard. The conversion programs will convert exactly the notes given as input.
With the intros I thought that if you followed the exact melody of a song for more than X (4,5?) notes, you had to pay a royalty?
That's why the intros and endings of styles obviously based on a real song mostly have a few different notes in the intro and ending, to avoid paying this fee?

[This message has been edited by technicsplayer (edited 01-29-2002).]

So, that means you cannot sell pizza but using someone else pepperoni. I thought that once you bought the equipment it's all yours and the property rights should be exclusively yours. And you can do anything about it. Styles are just an ingredient of music. The entire music is the main thing and this creation is yours. Nice discussion. Just a thought.

I do not believe this message came from
Yamaha.

It absolutely did come from Yamaha. In fact, Bob Gelman, the adminisrator of the PSR styles group, states that he met personally with Yamaha's attorneys concerning this matter.


"Korg" AJ

I wonder if we are allowed to put yamaha saddlebags on a Honda motorcycle.

Nope - copywrites are clearly defined and written in the instructions of any thing pertinant. Yell and scream if it makes you feel better, but the owner of the copywrite is ALWAYS right in cases where unauthorized duplication has been made. It's stated very plainly that you are NOT to distribute the material. Sure, it's tough to enforce, like "holding" in football or "traveling" in basketball, but the fact remains - you are NOT allowed to copy and/or distribute copywritten material without permission.
Do what you want, but I suggest you don't complain out loud when you are clearly breaking the law.

I fired off a letter to Yamaha expressing my dismay at their decision. I drove 90 miles round trip and spent 2 hours looking at the 9000 and 2000 last Saturday. Why would I spend 2500 dollars for a 9000 when the $1100 2000 has better sounding styles? Because I could download the better sounding styles from the internet. I have many Yamaha instruments in my house but now all Yamaha purchases are on hold.

Apple computer tried the propriatary track with their computers and where did it get them? 5% of the market at best that's where.

As Scott said the whole issue of whether you can copyright a plagerized rhythm track is probably legally questionable anyway.

Tom

Scott wrote :

" In fact, this is the reason why Yamaha gave the song names in their 'Music Finder' cryptic names instead of the actual 'real' song titles names: ei "Sixty Four Years Old" for the Beatles classic "When I'm Sixty Four" or "All Shaken Up" for Elvis' hit tune "All Shook Up". Hmmm, Is Yamaha now applying a 'double standard' with us on this issue".

Good point Scott...Hmm I guess when we want to share style files publicly we could change CVP209 to PVC902. For added measure we could change a note here or there in each variation. In retrospect, maybe that is how we should have uploaded the files to the styles group. Then we would be playing the game on Yamaha's terms.

I don't know Uncle Dave ... you may be right on this but then again, I bet many 'laws' had to be challenged and / or broken in order for us to gain the freedoms we enjoy today in this country. Please don't misinterpret what I mean here. I'm not saying that we should willingly violate the copyright law or that it is unfair at all ( it protects all of us in so many ways ). I'm only questioning its application in this case, and I believe that application of law is always open to debate and challenge. ( God help us the day it isn't anymore ). I also know that just because something is law or is perceived ( correctly or incorrectly ) to be law doesn't always mean it's right. Law is opinion, nothing more. That's why laws are constantly challenged and often changed. Yamaha absolutely reserves the right to say anything they want about their product, and to claim copywrite of their styles, but how the law applies is not up to them. A court would have to weigh in the factors and decide that. Just because it is in black and white doesn't always make it so. Ask the FCC when they fine a 'pirate' radio station that is clearly in violation of existing federal law... and yet a judge overturns it on a variety of grounds...including something to the effect of being an unconstitutional application of the law.

More than question the application of the law itself in this case, I question the spirit of what the company has decided to do.
Who is really being hurt when we share the styles ? Does anyone really believe that someone is going to use the availability of CVP styles in order to save money and buy the 2000 instead of the CVP ? Or maybe we are actually going to believe that the 9000 PRO is now a less desirable board than the 2000 because through the magic of style sharing we discovered that the 2000 happens to have a couple of styles that we generally think are better ? Sure they can ( or try to )apply the letter of the law in this case, but who is really served by it ? Yamaha itself likely won't be served well if all it does is upset many of their customers. Are they upset because maybe someone took some of their styles and has now converted them for use on a PA80 or a Roland VA7 ? NEWS FLASH Yamaha...Your styles don't sound particularly good on a PA80..
Guess what ? PA80 styles don't sound particularly good on your boards either. Besides...even if they did...I can record a midifile on my 2000 using your styles and play it back on my PA80...so what gives ? Will that become an issue too if someday I'm playing a gig and a Yamaha employee in the crowd happens to hear something identifiable made from a 2000 style playing through my PA80? I don't think so....
What do they really want to do here? Sell me CVP209 styles for my 2000 ? Many are almost identical. Gimme a break. Make some fresh styles and I'll gladly buy them if I decide that I need more styles. Or do they just want to flex their muscles and show us little guys who's boss ?

"Korg" AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-30-2002).]