Is anybody using XGWORKS these days. If so, what arranger / synth do you play and what aspects of XGWORKS do you use. I find it a bit rich that Yamaha have withdrawn support and development for this product and still sell it on their web-site.

Jon.

I still have it on one of my computers, but I probably should just get rid of it as I am certain I wouldn't miss it. It has useful midi editing features but very little in audio production capabilities. The arranger function isn't real time, so I use One Man Band for that.

The SQ01 soft sequencer that came bundled with my Motif still gets some occasional use. I also have a Korg PA80. SQ01 has better audio capabilities than XG works, and it will host Vst soft synths and effects. Some of these don't always work so well in it though. For example, it has a problem synching up with FL studio, which is one of my favorite apps.

So.. I use Sonar, which handles all my DX and VSt Plug ins flawlessly, and works well with my hardware keyboards as well. Sometimes I just use FL studio as a standalone ( it's more than capable ), and sometimes I open it up as DXi or Rewire device in Sonar.

The way Yamaha has orphaned things like XG Works and the SYXG 100 software XG module makes me less than happy that they decided to take over Steinberg. I hope they don't mess up the VST platform now that they basically own it.


AJ

Hi Jon,
I originally got it so I could access my psr styles after I sold my 9000 pro
ie I was able to create a backing track in steptime ( similar to how Band in a Box works ) then do a bit of editing.
It has it's own built in styles, but there is also a way of using psr styles.

Nowadays I'm using One Man Band for the above functions instead.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonPro:
[b]

[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 01-09-2005).]

I haven't sequenced in a couple of years, but I used to love XGworks. I had a CS2x as a controller and loved the XG editing capabilities, but I never felt that Yamaha ever really promoted it as they should have. Very disappointing. -charley

Yep, I agree Charley. The thing has excellent midi editing features ( more intuitive than Sonar... for me anyway ), but like many other Yamaha softwares, they just let it slip away.

I still use XGworks regularly with my PSR-740. I mostly use the XG Editor as my 740 contains a full blown synth which is mostly inaccessible from the keyboard. The XG Editor gives me almost full control of the synth though I had to do a major update of the XGworks tables to provide this facility. The only thing XGworks doesn't support is the Organ Flutes but I can get around this with some extra sysex or by using Cakewalk Studioware and XGworks in conjunction with MidiOx/MidiYoke.

I also find the styles useful. I can copy a melody and the chords out of a fake book to get an idea of how it should sound, and then do an arrangement based on the result.

XGworks doesn't print scores too well so I use PowerTracks for that as it has a rather nice "Engraver Spacing" option.

As to support, I've been supporting XGworks in a small way by updating the tables for various instruments and shipping them to various folks and to Yamaha for their enlightenment. The problem there is that high end synths designed after the 740 use an extended effects map which XGworks cannot support without a major rewrite of the code, so I just update the instrument tables for those synths.

Bryan

Hi Bryan,
it certainly has been a while.
Great to hear from you again.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pilot:
[B]

I have XGWorks with SW1000XG. Always prefer to do midi editing on XGWorks compared to doing it on Cakewalk Home Studio, but use Cool Edit along with Home Studio for audio editing. I still use XGWorks when creating styles for PA80.

Shiral

I own XGWorks as well but only utilize it when I need to PRESERVE a Tyros/PSR keyboard created midi file's: auto-accompaniment 'CHORD NAMES', of which is required to properly trigger the vocal harmonizer's chord changes on playback.

When a Tyros/PSR keyboard created midi file is loaded into any other commercial sequencer (Cakewalk Sonar, etc), all Yamaha exclusive commands (sysEX commands begining with FF) are not only ignored, but when the midi file is subsequently re-saved, this critical data is lost forever. A listing of these Yamaha exclusive commands are listed on page 62 of the Tyros "Data List" manual.

I heard rumors quite a while back that Cakewalk was considering adding support (recognition) for these Yamaha Exclusive SysEX commands with a Sonar add-on plug-in. Anybody here know whether Cakewalk & Yamaha ever joined forces to implement this in Sonar? Thanks.

Scott

I can echo a lot of what AJ's experiences have been like, including the former use of XGWorks and SQ01. I just got a new studio computer on the only software going on it is what I actually use - won't be Yamaha software. I'm waiting until after NAMM to be certain but I'm probably going to have to upgrade to Sonar v4 for the surround-sound capability. The new computer has surround and my studio is going that way this year. I use the Motif's OPT voice editors in Sonar also. I'm finally adding the mLan interface to my Motif ES 8 which is partnered with a studio 9000 Pro. Otherwise I use Reason 2.5 (going to v3) and Sony Sound Forge.

I own a lot of softsynths but the only one I actually use a lot is still Yamaha SYXG100 on a laptop... wouldn't it be great if Yamaha revived and developed a new VST version of that?

Yamaha's Cubase... that's going to take getting used to. Who knows what they will do with it? But they sure have left behind some nice and often useful technology along the way. That what worries me... what they'll discontinue next.

There are some pretty farout rumors floating around NAMM this year, such as a possible new Korg "Open" synth that may be in the mold of the Open Labs nEko. It makes a lot of sense - Korg makes softsynths. If so, the softsynth-host-keyboard war has begun. It could be epic. It's fun to imagine that we're not that far from a hardware arranger that could load VSTi's.

Hi,
one can only dream.
There again, go back 10 years and the stuff around today would have only been a dream back then.

best wihes
Rikki

Very true Rikki. I can go back to 1998, which is when I first started playing around with soft synths. I tried a few and quickly abandoned the idea. Even just 7 years ago, I thought the sonic quality of most of them to be relatively poor vs hardware.

Fast forward to a few years later. I kept reading about the FLR system, and then started frequenting sites like KVR and to a lesser extent Harmony Central. Then I d/l'd
RGC Audio's Freeware "Triangle", and I was amazed at the sounds. Right then and there I began to realize the potential. A couple of years later, and I'm still amazed at what can be done with vst and like technologies.

Back to the topic.. I can see where using XG works, and maybe even SQ01, could still hold some advantages vs using Cubase, Sonar, Logic, etc for Yamaha arranger / XG based kb users. SQ01 is actually decent, and has good audio capabilities, but they left out a few of the things that were good about XG works, like style playing capabilities, the midifile importer, etc.

For any other keyboards or softsynths, I wouldn't recommend either XGW or SQ01 vs even a decent low to mid level sequencer package. There are several things that even the bottom end versions of Cakewalk ( Metro ? ), FL studio, and Orion give a user that XG works won't. Heck, there are a few freeware DAW's / sequencers at KVR that do more.

Scott, I remember reading about that as well. I think the closest they may have gotten was to use Opt panels that are setup for Some of the Yamaha kbs, and that I believe may also be interchangeable between Sonar and SQ01.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-11-2005).]

Thanks guys for all the good ideas and advice. It looks like XGWORKS was another great idea in the mind of Yamaha which fell off the the table while the developers were out to lunch. From your comments it looks like there isn't one product which does everything, particullarly when thinking about the sysEX commands. My thoughts were to rough something on the 9000PRO sequencer and then complete it using XGWORKS or some other program. I would like all the data to be preserved while moving between the keyboard's sequencer and the soft sequencer and then back to the keyboard for final polish. Is this possible? From what you say, I realise (for instance) that some functions say of the 9000PRO are not recognised by XGWORKS but are they preserved while in XGWORKS or are they written over and lost, meaning that once back on the 9000PRO these certain functions are inoperable?

Jon

I wonder if it's really dead or is Yammie up to something here. They have Steinberg now, so I wonder what they're planning to do here. Maybe a combo of Steinberg and XG Works???????

Squeak

Hi Jon,
if you don't already own xg, why not try it with a demo sequencer http://www.pgmusic.com/ptdemo.htm
You mightn't be able to save your edits, but if you played it back via midi using the pro as a sound module, hopefully you may be able to tell if everything is sounding as it should ie that all the sysex messages etc are working.
It may even be possible to record it back into the pro's sequencer via midi, but that sometimes requires a complicated set up, that I really can't remember how to do.

Midifiles have made things so much easier, than years back, when the only way to transfer a song from a keyboard to a computer, was via a midi cable.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonPro:
[B]

Many thanks Rikki for the URL. What attracts me to XGWORKS (still)is that it should have "better compatability" with a Yamaha KeyBoard than other mainstream programs. (Or is this not really important anymore?) I am currently brushing up on my sysEX and then I will try, as you have suggested, to observe what's going on. Are there any mainstream programs which include (even as plug-ins)brand name keyboard (Yamaha, Roland etc.)sysEX and other "brand" specific data. I guess I am looking for "the" universal program (if it exists) that will work with any k'board.

Hi Jon,
on re-reading some of the posts, I don't think the guys actually said that what you're wanting to do wouldn't work with xg works ( please correct me if I'm wrong anyone )?? ie if all you'r wanting to do is record a sequence ( midifile ) in your pro, then load it into xgworks for editing, then save it and be able to play it back in your pro.
XG eworks doesn't have a voicing table specifically for the pro, but if you wanted to change voices on tracks, you probably could do it manually with program & bank changes ( data in your manual).
Just find the instrument that most closely matches the instruments in your pro. You'd probably be missing some drumsets and a few instruments, but you could probably edit those in manually.

It's been years since I've had anything to do with sysex messages. I used to have to edit them years back when I was using a midi patch bay with a number of sound modules, but nowadays having just the one instrument, when they pop up, I just ignore them, as everything usually seems to work ok.

I actually have both programs , each has it's pro's and cons for editing. I don't actually use them for recording songs in realtime, I mainly use them for revoicing the odd midifile, but mainly I used to use them for editing styles.

I haven't actually worked out, do you already own xg works ? if not give the pg music demo a try. The reason I mentioned the midi link up is , that I'm pretty sure power tracks won't allow you to save in demo program, most demo programs won't.


best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonPro:
[B]

If all you are looking to do is edit or create midifiles from within a soft sequencer, then XG works will work fine Jon. Once you cross the boundary and want to work with audio and midi inside of the same app, then XG works pretty much becomes a liability. It has audio capabilities, but they are crude at best.

Cakewalk has opt panels for specific setups ( I'm pretty certain that there is one for XG ) and there are .ins ( instrument ) files available for practically every synth / kb out there, so I find no real advantage in using XG works for xg based synths any more. Not that XG works isn't good for this, but other sequencers will work just as well, with much more efficient audio integration ( if you need to use audio ).

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-15-2005).]

Thanks guys for your continued help.
To answer your questions ....
Rikki, you are correct when you say that I am wanting to record a sequence ( midifile ) in the 9000PRO, then load it into xgworks for editing, then save it and be able to play it back in the 9000PRO. This is the first step I need to achieve before going onto creating styles using other mediums. I thought that XGWORKS compatability with the 9000PRO would be necessary, what ever path I took, using XGWORKS for inprocess editing (for notation)as well as final editing.
Rikki,I do actually own an early copy of XGWORKS which I purchased when I was using a PSR640 a few years ago. It worked well then, but then I upgraded to the 9000PRO. I have recently upgraded my computer and in so doing moved to XP which in itself has provided a few more challenges. Hence I come to this point of wonder, if it is worth resurecting XGWORKS or just leave it buried and move on to a better (well supported) program.
AJ, you are correct when you say that I might (will) cross the boundary and want to work with audio and midi inside of the same app. So your comments on XGWORKS here are valuable.
In the meantime, Bryan (Pilot)has offered to send me the XGWORKS file updates for the 9000PRO. Many thanks Bryan.
Sooooooooooo ...... The obvious path for me is to look at XGWORKS (upgraded to XP) in the light of the files which Bryan is sending and then, without wasting too much time in the process, see what can be achieved and for what effort.
Looking at all the replies to this thread, It makes me think that there are many possible solutions. Perhaps we could review the currently available programs, relative to the different makes and models of keyboards - a topic for another thread.

Hi Jon,
if you can get xgworks up and running then give it a try. Power Tracks Pro Audio is a fairly inexpensive sequencer ( I gave you the link up top), there's a demo to try.
Plus the programs AJ mentioned , Sonar, Fruityloops have demo's also. It's so great being able to try before you buy.

As for when you get into creating/editing psr styles, ( favourite pastime of mine, obsession actually) I use OMB software http://www.1manband.nl/omb.htm
it's actually a realtime arranger program, but it has some wonderful psr style editing/creation functions, including creating styles from midifiles. Sequencer for style editing, is not necessary for this program.

best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonPro:

That would make for an excellent topic Jon. I've worked quite a bit with Sonar and a few other apps, and several other members here have likely worked with other ones that I haven't. All of the mid to high level ones seem to be very good to me, with a few differences in the interface between them. I'm just used to Cakewalk stuff. I started out with their low end sequencer called Metro, as it came bundled with my soundcard. Metro, like some of the other low to mid end apps, is pretty good as well.

BTW, Having an app like Sonar isn't an absolute must either, because you could also do all of your midi editing in XG works and then export to a program like Power Tracks or N Track, for work on the audio. Both of these are literally a fraction of the cost. I used to work like this myself, and it was quite ok.

Where an App like Sonar ( substitute Cubase, Nuendo, Logic etc ) becomes most useful to me is when I want to incorporate detailed midi editing, good audio facilties, and the use of DXi - Vst effects and / or Vst instruments all under one "roof".

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 01-17-2005).]