Anyone out there using a midi guitar to drive an arranger keyboard? I talked with my roland rep and he told me that it could be done by using a GR33 He said that it converts your guitar to a midi keyboard device, and that you can user define what for example a D major chord open position will send out to an arranger unit and therefore drive the chord changes in real time. He also said that used along with a VG88 you can get any tuning and guitar tone that you would need. Not that you could'nt use your exsiting guitar proccesing ang amplification equipment. Solton has the thirteen footswitch pedal board to activate and change arrangement parts. So for example if your struming the guitar the harmonizers backing you up you kick in your fill to the next arranger section..etc....Can this Be True???? Any Experts????

Here are my unofficial thoughts on this. I believe this would work. I've done some work with arranger keyboards, and With a GR30, and I own a VG-8. The one problem I can foresee is if you were to solo on your guitar. As soon as you stopped chording and went into solo, the arranger would mess itself up badly. It would probably treat each note of your solo as a chord, thus changing chords for every single note you play. Also, if you do some runs while you play rhythm, it might follow each note and adjust accordingly, almost tracking too closely if you get my meaning.

Sound like an interesting proposition. I've never done it, but I can see where it could work after considerable study and understanding how all this works. It would be excellent if you could go to some nice music store and try it out. It could maybe be done, though I would highly speculate you'd have to change your style of guitar some to accomidate all those other machines.

F13 thanks for your input. Mabey if there were user defineable chords at the actual arranger unit this could be done without as many chord recognition errors. For the GR and Axon units convert your guitar to a midi keyboard per say. I remember a post a while back about a keyboard with user definable chord recognition. Depending on the flexability of the current softwares within these units and mabey by our requests to lets say Ketron this may soon be applicable.

FAEbGBD
There is usually a "hold" function that allows you to strike a chord, then push a footswitch to "hold" that certain chord. While it is held, you can solo all over the place and the changes will be ignored. It only takes a little while to get used to. A bigger problem is the use of jazzy chords that involves "muted" notes on some strings. Certain arrangers read the muted notes as well as the open ones....another workaround.
The same rules apply to guitar/arrangers as do keyboard/arrangers...... you need to make certain allowances for compromise in your playing style so the arranger can do it's job. The use of the word "intelligent" in the arranger world is highly overrated - it really means: "Ultimate power" - the arranger is the boss, and don't forget it. We are the conductors,maybe but the machine is definatly driving the train. Learn the workarounds, and you will be free to be expressive and creative on another level. You can't expect to just "play the same" as you would in a truly live situation, and get the same results. Learn the quirks of the machine, and make it work for YOUR needs. Almost anything can be done with these new arrangers if you dig deep enough.
Also:
Check out if your arranger has a "guitar" controller mode - this will probably have the "hold" feature built in. I know of several Roland models that have done this in the past. For a midi guitar controller - it's a MUST HAVE feature.

RobbC: First person who used the shorthand version of my name. Although, you neglected to mention the 11#, which is the most essential element of this. I understand however, less to type.

I didn't know about the hold feature, though to have that is nice. Nonetheless, to have to interupt your solo's train of thought to strike a chord seems somewhat crude, although I see no way to get around it. It would be difficult for me, a guitar player and keyboardist, to be doing a sweet, smooth guitar solo and to have to remember to strike the chord every time it is necessary. I couldn't just flow from line to line, it'd be more of a gap between each line in order to hit the chord.
Like I said, I figured it could be done somehow, but I don't know how fluid it all is.

Another thing I haven't quite figured out is where the VG-8 comes into play in this process. To my knowledge, the VG8 doesn't send midi note messages. So if you were to use it for an alternate tuning, I'm not sure how you'd go about connecting to the VG8, and from there to the GR30, and from there to the arranger.
If I am mistaken, and the VG-8 does send notation messages, then why would you need a gr-30?

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 04-01-2001).]

One option for a guitar player is to use an octave foot pedal (e.g., Roland PK-5) to specify a bass note or part of a chord.

One attractive combination is a Karma with the MOSS option installed driven by a Yamaha WX-5 wind controller and a Roland PK-5 Octave foot pedal. The melody and a single bass note would be sufficient to define a useable autoaccompaniment. However, this method would not work with all arrangers; for example, it would not work with the PSR-8000, since it requires three notes to define a chord. The Karma can be set up to respond to a single note or any combination of notes as a chord. Thus, it provides a chord progression in response to a MIDI melody. If the bass note is added, it defines the root of the chord. I think you can see that if you can accompany a Wind Controller melody, you can also handle a guitar lead through chord changes.

I use teh pedals to play run arranger of xi and play lead on guitar. I think if you use piano suatain it will hold chord while you play around with notes but this is possibly harder than pedals to tgigger arranger, as you have to divert from the lead riff to change chord occasionally eg Run ends in different note than final chord .

I use Roland GK-2A divided pickup on a Yamaha steel acoustic guitar with an older Roland MIDI guitar gear GI-10 (no synth, just pitch-to-MIDI converter) for recording guitar strummings into MIDI sequencer. Lately I purchased a Godin ACS-SA nylon strung guitar with built-in GK-2A pickup which has both the GK-2 13-pin connector (for MIDI) and 1/4" out for amplifier/effects. It is very interesting product and the mix of its own amplified sounds and synth sounds it triggers is very amusing. Uncle Dave is correct, even the old GI-10 has a hold (sustain) pedal connection that allows you to sustain a particular chord as long as you press down on the sustain pedal.

Clif's idea of using Roland PK-5 should also work especially using PK-5's poly mode in which you can step on multiple pedals representing the components of a chord. You will need to have a MIDI merger device like MIDIman 2x2 to merge the MIDI out of Roland GI-10 or GR-30 etc. and the MIDI out of the PK-5 pedal board to the MIDI in B of say, Yamaha 9000 Pro/PSR9000, Roland G1000/EM2000, or MIDI in 2 of Solton X1.

Paul Ip
from Texas

I'm starting to understand how this could theoretically work. My question is, is anyone actually doing it? I may be accptionaly dense, but am I to understand that if you were doing a lead solo, you'd have to be sure to hit the root note for each chord change? So every few mearures or less, you have to hold down your sustain pedal, and at that same instant play the root note of the chord you want to change to? What if I wanted to do a melody line that would require me to play the fifth of a chord without the root?
This itn't even my problem I lrealize, but it still fascinates me.

Sorry about the myriad of typos in my last post! My computer is acting terribly tonight, and I can't even tell what I'm typing most of the time. I'm now typing very slowly and carefully, and my speech on this computer is still not keeping up with me well. I'm a blind individual by the way, so that's why I'm using speech. Anyway, there's my disclaimer.

Hi F11#13 (is that right?)

If your melody has a "g", how is the arranger supposed to know you want it as the fifth of a Cmaj instead of the root of a G (etc.)? This is the problem. Specifying a root solves this problem to some extent. However, to distinguish a Cmaj from a Cmin would require that the third be specified. Still, this is something feet can accomplish while both hands are tied up with a guitar or wind instrument. A sustain pedal is not required assuming there is a chord hold function.

In principle, you could specify a scale instead of a chord. There would be fewer changes. Vocal harmonizer have a scale mode, but I do not know of any arranger keyboards that do.

Clif