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#200583 - 08/14/06 03:29 PM Re: Faking Performance
drdalet Offline

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 187
Loc: Amersfoort, Netherlands
Originally posted by Scottyee:

WMV (video) clip

of which clearly demonstrates what I so disrespect! This video was sent to SZ member Heikki Kahkola (aka the wolf) by purported some pro musician entertainer by the name of Johnny, in Silkborg, Dennmark. Accompying the video clip, Johnny wrote this:

"Hello again

The video was taken saturday in Silkeborg
I did not play anything I faked to your midi
and waughh people liked it..



Not only did this guy (without permission rip off Heikki's midi file song performance), but had the nerve to attempt to give his audience the impression he was actually playing it live too.


Thanks for this very inspiring video. What I espescially like about it, is that in the short time you can see his hands, it is obvious he doesn't even try to hide that he is not playing at all.
The guy who held the camera knew what he was doing, showing the garbage containers in the background

#200584 - 08/14/06 03:54 PM Re: Faking Performance
travlin'easy Online   happy
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I'm honored and very proud to be on Don Mason's list of top players--a feather in my cap!

Thanks Don,


Travlin' Easy
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

#200585 - 08/14/06 04:27 PM Re: Faking Performance
FAEbGBD Offline

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
The last thread on this topic to which I replied a couple months ago was deleted. Why bump this one up from 4 years ago? IF my answer as well as the answers of others were worth deleting then....Heck with it! SO basically I'm writing to say that I'm not going to write anything.

#200586 - 08/14/06 05:10 PM Re: Faking Performance
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi Rory, I REMEBER that posting thread well, and equally upset that your posting (as well as the entire thread) was deleted by our forum administrator. I'm afraid my reply (concuring with your opinion) got deleted as well, all because Nigel decided to remove the ENTIRE thread, just because of the 'few jerks' here posted offending remarks on that same thread. I feel a lot better at least knowing that there are a few among us here who share our sentiments over: faking performance. Perhaps there's hope for musicianship & integrity afterall. - Scott

#200587 - 08/14/06 05:28 PM Re: Faking Performance
renig Offline

Registered: 02/20/00
Posts: 643
Loc: Canada
Originally posted by Scottyee:
I've basically STOPPED 'playing along' with midi files all together, except for only a very FEW songs.

Nothing BEATS playing 100% LIVE in 'arranger mode' because it offers MUCH more excitement & energy when you're playing (the KB with BOTH hands), singing, and triggering multi pad riffs, fills, and instrument setups 'on the fly'. I find that 'playing along' to a midi file really "LOCKS me in a BOX"; while playing in full arranger mode allows me to be much more spontaneously creative: triggering 'on the fly' key modulation, tempo changes, variation changes, chord substitions, adding additional chorus', etc, etc, etc. All these skills (to me) separate a talented arranger keyboard performer from a karaoke singer who performs with backup tapes, or someone who 'plays along' with a pre-sequenced midi file. I don't want to knock these other performance alternatives, but since this is an 'arranger' keyboard forum, I hope to PROMOTE arranger keyboard 'PLAYING' to the fullest! Being able to play an arranger keyboard is one thing, but to fully utilize its potential in a live interactive manner takes special skill that 'sets it apart' from all other forms of music performance. I hope we all continue to work on furthering our unique arranger playing skills, which in turn will raise the level of respect we get from our fellow traditional musicians, as well as the listening public. - Scott

My sentiments exactly. I've mentioned this before but FWIW, I use about 6 midi files out of 120 or so songs in our repertoire.

#200588 - 08/14/06 07:06 PM Re: Faking Performance
hellboy44 Offline

Registered: 11/04/03
Posts: 541
Loc: Australia
I agree with Uncle Dave's posts more than I thought I could ever possibly agree with anyone!

In my duo I work almost entirely with midi-files.

I don't feel bad about that, because they are either programmed by me (either in total or in part), or I have scoured all the internet - (general sites, or exclusive midi-forums) and METICULOUSLY tweaked them, part by part, effect by effect, note by note if need be, to sound EXACTLY like the popular recorded version.
I then wipe all keyboard parts I can play myself, and then play and sing the hell out of the song. As UD says, we have to also continuously scan the ever changing mood of the crowd and keep them on the floor with such a diverse range of genres it's ridiculous.

And crack gags whenever we can!

Sometimes I grab a tambourine or other light percussion (I'm a formally trained drummer as well) and go to town with a great rhythm and lead vocal "frontman performance".

My wife either sings harmony, plays electric guitar (with a cosm amp - changing sounds as style dictates) or then takes over lead vocals (she's a MUCH better singer than me).

We do this almost entirely to Midi backing like I said (occasionally I use the arranger for Old Time Dancing).

We are continually in demand.
We are professionals (no day jobs).
We don't feel like cheats.

Uncle Dave rock on!
God I hate signatures.


#200589 - 08/14/06 07:23 PM Re: Faking Performance
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Hellboy.....nice post.... there are many acts around here like yours that are very successful around here in the casinos & today's world we have all the tools & they are meant to be used in many ways to entertain the masses.

#200590 - 08/14/06 08:16 PM Re: Faking Performance
Vadim Offline

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 321
Playing Live is the Best(i mean, when you have a drummer, bassist, guitaris,t etc)
But playing live on the arranger is not that Live,(only the right hand) because what you'r doing pretty much is just "inputing" chords, to a music style that wasn't made by you.
I used to think that its better to play with style and that its the right way, but not any more, there are people sweating hours to make a backing track( a god one) or a midi file, and people can say: Ah, Its not live, everyone can play live, paly for beginning to the end and your done. But try to record a midi file, not everyone can do it, beacuse not too many people try hard enough.
But Faking playing to someone alses work is the worse, it should be illegal.

[This message has been edited by Vadim (edited 08-14-2006).]

#200591 - 08/14/06 10:08 PM Re: Faking Performance
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vadim:
[B]Playing Live is the Best(i mean, when you have a drummer, bassist, guitaris,t etc)
But playing live on the arranger is not that Live,(only the right hand) because what you'r doing pretty much is just "inputing" chords, to a music style that wasn't made by you.

When I play an arranger keyboard I have two hand that are playing live not one, just like the organ players do.

“Faking a performance” – That’s a bit hard. I would like to keep the subject in three categories;
1-Playing music 2-Entertaining for $$$ 3-The fakers.

2-Entertaining for $$$;
If you are getting paid you do whatever you must do to do the job. When I had my music store I sold a lot of accordions, made good money. When accordions started to fade out it took me a while to wake up and get into the guitar phase. You must go with the flow or you lose. Loyalty or being a purist does not pay the bills.

1-Playing music; This is the part I love, it’s the reason I got into the music business. I love to play as live as it is possible and still keep like a full sounding group. I try and duplicate what I had when I had my own band.

3-The fakers; Well if they have any talent they’ll never know.

IMHO, John C.

#200592 - 08/15/06 06:59 AM Re: Faking Performance
Craig_UK Offline

Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 914
Loc: UK
Nice post Vadim. I totally agree that not everyone can program midi files, that's why there are so many bad ones on the net and available to buy from companies who seem to push out any trash just to get rich.
I enjoy doing backing tracks for singers and groups on my PC and have done now for the past 17 years. Many singers can't play an instrument so they need good quality backing to bring their performances to life. I've been in bands, played on the organ circuit since I was 11 until 17 and I'm now a solo keyboard player, however I don't use any of my own backing tracks (not midi tracks, these are recorded as real audio files with real guitar parts played by me) and I would never consider using a SMF, but that's jsut me. I'd rather play 100% live and create my own interpretation of a song. I don't want to sound like any other keyboard player, I like my own style of playing so why be a carbon copy of someone else or just take the easy route out and fake to a midi entirely or just play a lead part over something pre-recorded.
Midi will always be used and if it gets people work then good, but those who have to mime entirely over the top are nothing more than a poor excuse for an artiste and will get caught out sooner or later

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