Hey Cassp,
Have you ever written/created any new styles from scratch? I'm not being sarcastic, just a serious question. Your problably not in the mood for serious questions. Just curious.
Starkeeper

What is all the moaning about?
If you want a board that does not play styles then buy a motif or a triton or whatever.... but please leave the musical snobbery out of it. I will never get it when folks who buy arrangers insist they never use the arranger functions. (implying that to do so would somehow compromise their musical integrity! Get over it!)Somehow it is supposed to make it OK to play styles if you make them yourselves? Behave. I like to drive my car but I let Mazda make it for me so does that mean I am not a 'real' driver? POPPYCOCK!

So what if the G70 styles are converted to play on other boards. No matter how well the conversion is done they will never sound as good as when played on the board for which they were intended anyway. I doubt Roland is losing any sleep over this common practice.

When I had the 9000pro I had all the Tyros styles converted for it. I liked the styles so much I eventually bought the Tyros. First time I played the Tyros I realised that while the styles sounded 'familiar' they were infinately superior played on the TY than when played on the 9000pro.

Heck most manufacturers support conversions via Styleworks and such programmes anyway.

I have the G-70 conversions and to be frank there are not many in there that I would use over the styles I have that were specifiaclly written on/for the ty. HOWEVER I bet I would like the G-70 styles a whole lot more if I played them on a G70
I don't see the problem. (But I did enjoy venting )
Tony

Kevin, I can't say that I have. I've never been one for editing anything - sounds, styles, whatever. I did create a neat B3 simulation on my Juno 106 that i was pretty proud of and I used to make patterns on my old TR505 drum machine, but I haven't gotten the guts to learn the ins and outs of styles. Sorry.

And as far as being serious, I thought this was a good topic "tease" some of our newer members. Seems they are all way too serious about everything. But some very good comments and ideas have been brought out in this thread, so I guess it's time to step aside and let it ride.

Tony, I agree with everything you said, and I might add that once converted, those conversions do not represent the G-70 styles. They are essentially new styles that are the result of someone's creativity and software engineering expertise. Lets face it, no keyboard or synth manufacturer created the ballad, swing, jazz, foxtrot, etc. Those styles were the creations of musicians at a time when most of us were not alive--even old farts like me. Each of those styles have been modified many, many times, yet if you look at your style selection on your keyboard, it says swing, etc. Does Roland, Yamaha, Korg, or any other manufacturer own those styles? NOT!

A parrallel of this would be an ordinary kernel of corn. When cooked in hot oil, the moisture expands and causes it to be transformed into pop-corn. It no longer is an ordinary kernel of corn, but instead, it just became a new product, one that was created by someone who modified the kernel using his or her creativity. Now, does the farmer who sold the corn have legal rights to all modifications to the corn? How about when the corn is converted to fuel, booze, candy, flour? Should the farmer get a royality because he grows hyrid corn that he developed in his greenhouse before selling it? Case closed!

BTW, most of the conversions are mediocre at best, many I would not use for performances, and some, after lots of fine tuning, changes in OTS, etc, may end up in my archives. Then again, I may dump the entire file.

Bigger and better fish to fry Cass,

Gary

Hi Tony,
couldn't agree more. They never sound the same as on the original keyboard.
Keyboards handle styles differently, so how can a style sound exactly the same .
If manufactures wanted to stop us converting styles they'd have the style conversion software removed from the marketplace. You couldn't convert a KN7000 style for the first couple of years or so, not till they actually stop making them ( from memory).

Sharing commercial styles, to my mind is a totally different thing again, that's not the right thing to do, as obviously these guys are trying to make a living from it.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony W:
[B]

So what if the G70 styles are converted to play on other boards. No matter how well the conversion is done they will never sound as good as when played on the board for which they were intended anyway.

That's an amazing analogy Gary! And Roland must realize that their Styles will always sound the best on the Keyboard that the Styles were designed for, in this case the G70. But possibly what they don't realize is that the conversion of their G70 Styles to other Keyboards gives other Brand keyboard owners a 'glimpse' of what the G70 is capable of as far as the Styles go. >> That is if the conversions are up to snuff. What it does is spark 'interest' in the "Keyboard" the Styles were created for, again in this case the G70. If the Styles happen to be converted outstandingly then that fuels the interest all the more and for some it could possibly mean selling their present Keyboard and getting the G70. As Tony did regarding his Tyros after listening to the Tyros Styles on his PRO.

Or even supplementing a current keyboard with a G70.

And especially since Roland is really limiting their sales of the G70 by selling them only through independent (mom & pop) retail establishments, that is all the more reason in my opinion for them to allow this additional 'exposure' by allowing the G70 styles to be converted and posted on the Net if people so choose to convert them and post them.

We all realize that a Keyboard is MUCH more than just the Styles. For instance; the G70 has one of the best key action and feel of any Arranger on the planet. Plus it has a plethora of other advanced features and of course a multitude of great sounds. Being able to listen to the G70's Styles on another Brand Keyboard (whatever one that may be), and realizing the potential that they have: could in my opinion, sway many a person to take the plung and get the G70.

But not being able to do so because of Rolands prohibitiveness of not allowing any G70 conversions to be posted on the Net could quite frankly backfire and hinder possible additional sales of it.

Best regards,
Mike

[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 03-23-2005).]

Hi Everybody

>I think Synthman may have had a previous identity on this forum. The writing and attitude seem familier.
IP< *SS*

>Synthman sounds like he is SYNTH_GUY.
SYNTH_GUY hasn't posted in a while, I wonder if he reincarnated? Oh Yeah!

No I'm just Synthman.

It seems that this is a delicat issue.
My point is just to remind all the people that just copy styles or midifiles from everywhere to think how they would do, if there suddenly were no style/midifile making companies to do all the hard work for us, who isn't capable to program very professionel styles and midifiles.

For me and I think for many others, it would be very bad.
So why not give the few dollars a style cost so we all can continue to get a lot of new inspirering styles and midifiles.

Hope this is clearing up my purpus with this issue.

Regards
Synthman
A hardworking musician and musicteacher from Denmark

[This message has been edited by Synthman (edited 03-24-2005).]

Hej Carsten.

Yepp, this is a hot topic discussed both here and elswhere many times,
and I think most people agree in that copyrighted midi files and styles
made to be sold commercially should not be spread around or offered for
free at the web.

Btw, I can see in another tread here that it is dangerous to be danish,
but you're most likely off of the 3 months in bed and got your sense of
hearing back?

Happy playing and converting.
GJ

( Kikket innom hjemmesiden din, den ser fin ut. )

What is the difference between emailing a midi file or style-for free to someone, or playing on the actual keyboard you own the midi, or style for a fee in public. If the file is truly copywrighted, and you didn't pay the royalties to the author-you both are breaking the law right? I think if a file is free to play in public-royalty free it is free to trade, and if it isn't free to play in public royalty free, than you can't trade it either. How many arranger keyboard performers actually seek out the royalty companies to make sure they are paying the correct fees? I bet not even half of them.

I agree that sending copyrighted midi and style files in their orriginal format is wrong. That's essentially theft. However, any modification of that style renders it into a new product, one that in many cases is nothing like the orriginal material. Let's see now, every keyboard I've owned had a Big Band Fast, Swing and various Jazz styles. Who was the first to have those styles, and did they actually invent Swing, Jazz, etc...? Nope! In most instances, the only part of the style that is the creation of the keyboard manufacturer are the intros and endings, and some coming from third party, independent suppliers sound almost exactly like internal styles from various keyboards I've owned. My point is that reconstituted stles are new creations--not duplicates of the orriginal. If you want the orriginal, you'll have to buy the keyboard, which is what many of us do.

From a personal standpoint, I believe that if I were to compose and perform a beautiful love song, one that was later being performed throughout the world by a huge number of entertainers, I would be the happiest person on earth. I wouldn't be trying to take legal action to prevent them from performing the songs--hell, I would be trying to find ways to have them perform it more often. Not only would I be flattered, I'd also be quite rich because it would inspire a lot of other folks to purhcase the orriginal. Think about it!

Cheers,

Gary