I've gotten several emails lately from members asking about the arpeggiators on them, and how they differ in the way they are handled on arranger keyboards. I'm going to address it here so that if others are curious they can read this post.

There are some similiarities in the area of "arpeggiation" found on a synth, that is also "partly" common with arranger keyboards.

Take for example the acoustic guitar strumming that you'd find in the preset styles on a PSR-3000 or Tyros2 . You'll notice some realistic nuances such as pick noise, and string slides, and a few other things.

Well this feature on an arranger is essentially an "arpeggiated riff"-- programmed much in the same way as done for the synth/workstations.

Let's take the Yamaha MotifES, and MO series for example. On these synths you'll find preset arps for acoustic guitars that behave much in the same way as the preset riffs on the PSR's and Tyros, but these riffs (on a synth) can be triggered in real-time using the keys.

On the arranger those arpeggiated patterns don't have the flexability as you'd find on a full blown synth (or even budget synths for that matter)

On the synth you'll find these realistic acoustic guitar strums under the "apreggiator" feature. The synth lets you go further though. It allows you to literally go into the arpeggiator and tweek the livi'n sh#t out of it With the synth you'll have control over the arpeggiated phrase and the ability to customize it, or create one completey from scratch.

Maybe in the future Yamaha and other's will start placing these type of phrases found within the styles under a dedictaed apreggiator section, and allow the user to tweek them.

I hope this helps those who have emailed me directly, and others who may also be curious about it.

Regards,
Squeak

It would be nice to have an option like this, along with more real time editing flexibility in the T2, on par with what I have in the Motif ES. If however, I could only have it one way or the other, ( in other words either a true arpeggiator OR the multipads ), I'd actually prefer that Yamaha stick to the format that it is using now.

Why ? It's because of the way I use the multipads when playing in real time. I use them to add another continuous and looped phrase to my styles, and the way it is setup now, I can shut off parts of a style that I don't want and replace them with a continuous multipad phrase(s). Or I can add a one shot phrase or sound just to spice things up.

The arpeggiator as it is set up on the Motif ES is very useful, but when I use it I'm not trying to also control chords and fills in a style at the same time I'm trying to play the correct keys for an arp part. I'm simply working on what I am actually playing at that time.

I think a Motif type arpeggiator might not be all that beneficial to me when I'm playing a live set. I like the simplicity of just hitting oned button and continuing to comp or play leads / melodies with my right hand.

Of course, for composing parts of a tune, a real arpeggiator would be excellent. I just wouldn't want it at the expense of not having the multipads as they currently work.

AJ

[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 08-27-2006).]

I think that AJ is right on regarding the matter of Arps in an arranger format. Simplicity and ease of use during live play makes the difference here. If I had to choose one or the other, it would be Multi-Pads over the Arpeggiator at this point.

Regards,

Dennis L. Almond
aka...TwoNuts

To each his own I guess Some of us are tweekers and some are not, but we all are in it for the same reasons.

I've always felt there was a definitive line between the arranger player, and synth player (although several of us have seen and experienced the benefits in owning both).

Still I often get emails from members asking questions about synths. It seems there's a growing interest in them here with arranger owners.

Squeak

Squeak,

I think you make valid points about the arps, but my point is that I would only be interested if they were an add on feature and not a replacement for the multipads.

I don't know anyone who likes to tweak or experiment any more than I do. It's just that playing in solo a live setting is not always the most opportune time to do it. There is simply too much other stuff to focus on when I use my arranger in that way.

Perhaps there IS a different mentality and approach between using an arranger and a synth. As much as I like playing the arrangers I have, they still aren't going to be my only ( or even first ) choice when I'm laying down tracks in the studio. There are other tools that are better suited for at least some aspects of it. If I can't get a real drummer in here, for example, I use Jamstix and BFD as opposed to an arranger ( or my Motif ES ) to try and get as close as possible.

That said, I think the arrangers I have make for a great starting point and at times will produce some very useable stuff in the studio as well. Aside from that, and probably most important at this stage of my life, they are fun to play, whether I'm playing for other folks or not.

AJ



[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 08-27-2006).]

Hi,

I am one of these members. My interest in synths is growing because the arranger makers cannot offer a keyboard that will fit my needs best - 88 hammer keys and good quality acoustic guitars.

I get more and more intrigued by the MO8 which appears to be only twice the dough of YPG-625 but light years ahead in terms of quality of voices and features. Actually, pricewise the Mo8 is comparable to PSR-3000 but since the former has 88 hammer keys I wouldn't hesitate for too long.

As far as styles are concerned, I can always use Jos Maas' One Man Band.

And, yes, the arpegiattor gadget appeals to me.

Regards,
George

This is an interesting topic. Possibly Arranger & Synths are getting closer together and certain differences are becoming less defined.
Why are Sythns so much better value price wise that the arrangers....anything to do with a different dealer % on both ?.

My thoughts are that one compensates for the other.
Most musicians are not rich and so the manufactures make a loss on their synths, to get musicians to buy them, which means as most play live the manufacture gets free advertising.
Arrangers are mainly bought by the General Public who usually have more disposable income, and so manufactures inflate the prices.
When the 2 come together the profits on the arranger compensates for the loss on the synth.
As I mentioned at the beginning these are just my thoughts, and are not based on anything specific.

Bill

Graham,
You and I are on the same page my friend. I have always been asking why do the prices differ so much?

What makes the tools on an arranger (be it pro or semi-pro), more important to the user, than the tools on a synth to the synth junkie? We have functions on our synths that clearly stand out, yet the makers don't squeeze our pockets as much as they do in the arranger market.

The Roland Juno-G is probably the best current example of this. The spec list is unheard of if you really think about it. Not only is it a Fantom based sound engine with 4 element voice structure, 128 note poly, able to run multiple inserts--these are just a few of the features, but the beast has a 16 track midi squencer that is synced with an onboard 4 track audio recorder, and Roland didn't stop there. The Juno-G will let you "mixdown" internally. You can mixdown the midi and audio all within the unit--and use a list of available mixdown effects as well as insert effects on the audio tracks.

All those features in this little synth and it goes for the same price as a PSR-1500, and Korg PA-50--yet it rivals many of their features. Roland put a tag of $999.00 on this synth.

I think the makers have been squeezing the arranger market for many years. It's no disrepect to T2,G-70, and other semi-and pro arranger owners, but I think the price of $3,000 and up is an outrage! A Roland Fantom X6 is a great synth, with features that will rival the T2, but it's over $1,000 less.

Squeak

George.., come over to the dark side my friend Feel the want flowing within you... Never underestimate the power of the synth

Joking!, but seriously though..., the MO8 would be a great 88 key unit for you. You'll get mega voices, guitar arps that will--to put it nicely--greatly surpass those found on the PSR's.

You'll find that action on it far more enjoyable than the DGX, and YPG's. Plus it's still a Yamaha

I've always felt it was wise to have both. A decent arranger, and a good synth. Together they compliment eachother quite well.

Squeak