Roland G70 and Korg PA1X owners: PLEASE 'report back' what chords the G70 & PA1X recongize the following notes (played as a chord) as. PLEASE perform this test in BOTH 'split' & 'full keyboard' modes.

Left Hand 3 note Chord Voicings:

1) F1-C2-E2
2) F1-B1-E2
3) E1-A1-D2
4) Eb1-A1-D2
5) D1-Ab1-C2

In split mode 'full fingered' mode, the Yamaha PSR/Tyros keyboards recognize the above as follows:

1) Dm7(9)
2) G7(13)
3) C69
4) F7(13)
5) Bb7(9)

Many thanks in advance.

Scott

Scott your not gonna change KB's are Ya?
76 keys wont fit in you car remember hahahahha

Hi Scott,
I have performed this test in BOTH 'split' & 'full keyboard' modes and the PA1X (61 keys)recognized

1)FMaj7
2)FMaj7b5
3)E7Sus4
4)EbMaj7b5
5)D7b5

Franky

Hey Scott,

Not that it matters because you weren't asking about a GEM WK8, but I got exactly what Franky got except for the last one (#5). There I got a Ab_b5.

Why?

-mike

Silva, many thanks for providing the chord recognition details for the Korg PA1Xpro. Mike, thanks for taking the time to test this on your GEM WK8 as well.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid Korg, GEM, and possibly even Roland, if their chord intrpetation on the G70 yields the same, all FLUNKED rudimentary 'Music Theory' 101.

With the 'bottom most' note of these chords interpreted as the 'root' tone, 'NONE' of these chords INCLUDES the "ALL ESSENTIAL" 3rd of the chord, of which signifies whether the chord is: MAJOR or MINOR.

I believe these SAME chord voicings, but with the 3rd of the chord 'actually included', ALREADY yield the SAME chord recognition results:

1) F1-A1-C2-E2 : FMaj7
2) F1-A1-B1-E2 : FMaj7b5
3) E1-A1-B1-D2 : E7sus4
4) Eb1-G1-A1-D2 : EbMaj7b5
5) D1-F#-Ab1-C2 : D7b5

If so, this makes Korg and GEM's 3-note chord voicing recognitions:

1) F1-C2-E2 : FMaj7
2) F1-B1-E2 : FMaj7b5
3) E1-A1-D2 : E7sus4
4) Eb1-A1-D2 : EbMaj7b5
5) D1-Ab1-C2 : D7b5

not ONLY incorrect, but redundant as well.

Since these same chord notes (but with the 3rd included) ALREADY fulfill the chord recognition needs for that family of chords (and in all 12 keys), Korg & GEM need to do what Yamaha, Technics & Ketron have already done instead: assign these specific 3 note chord voicings to the (rootless type) chords commonly played by professional 'jazz style' keyboardists.


To begin with, the II-V7-I chord progression is the basic building block of American Pop Standards: Cole Porter, Kern, Gershwin, etc. These '3 note' chord voicings, when interpreted as 'rootless style' chords, provide a 'professional sounding' II-V7-I chord progression which includes: 'smooth voice leading', of which is critically important, especially when you assign the LEFT voice as acoustic piano, pad, or strings.

I'm very impressed by many features & sounds of the Korg PA1XPro (from it's hip contemporary type jazz styles & innovative sounds as well), but its lack of recognition of jazz style 'rootless chords' makes it far too limiting for professional playing style cocktail jazz work.

Interestingly enough, the problem could be easily fixed in an OS Update. Both Korg & GEM could just re-assign these 5 chord voicings, and in all 12 keys as well of course , to MATCH Yamaha , which would not only EXPAND Korg's chord recognition table, but not sacrifice the chord recognition for the same chords which merely include adding the 3rd of the chord, either. This would create a WIN-WIN situation, satisfying BOTH standard pop and pro jazz style players.

I apologize for being so long winded, but I believe it's time that arranger keyboard manufacters universally agree on a chord recognition table, hopefully one which matches what Yamaha has done.

In the meantime, I'm still WAITING to here the above chord voicing chord recognition results from a Roland G70 owner. G70 owners, PLEASE post your finding. Thanks in advance,

Ok, gotta run. I'm off (and late ) to my 3rd Xmas show (this one a late niter) today.


Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 12-11-2004).]

scott,in regards to correct chord recognition,there is a problem with chords even with a perfect board,lots of the same chords have different names, for example F6 is Dm7 ,,and C6 is Am7 ,both examples are correct but if shown up on the screen you COULD think that it could be right or wrong depending which chord was showing,mike

Hi Scott,
do you know, that Roland G 70 is equipped with very short Intros and Endings (as Intro 1 and Ending 1 at Tyros)?
But about style software, the PA1 is supported much better (this brand features 4 variation styles since a long time, the Roland styles, you can buy, are with 2 variation styles).
The Roland features the excellent VK organ with mini drawbars, Korg features a drawbar organ, with no drawbars and 8 footages only (not closer to B3 as the Tyros). Roland features special accordeon voices.
The Korg's vocal harmonizer is much better as the Tyros' one, the Roland's is as the Discover's one and as the Yamaha's one.
I would say, a Roland G 70 could be a good choice and hope, Roland US recognizes the existence of G70 instead to say "The VA-76 V-Arranger Keyboard is Roland's flagship intelligent arranger..."
Aha, american arranger keyboards user have no need for the latest technology?
Korg is able to sell the PA1X in the states, Yamaha is able to sell the Tyros in the states and Roland think, the Americans need arranger functions in expensive home instruments, cheap toy instruments or yesterday's top arrangers.
Well, Italy is far away from USA. ;-)

------------------
Regards
RF

I would think that the new G70 with it's Adaptive Chord Voicing will be able to determine the correct chords as C6/A min..

Scott maybe this feature will determine your "rootless" chords within your chord progression..

Hi Mike, in the case of 'F6 & Dm7' or 'C6 & Am7', these are each considered "duo function" chords, of which the chord voicings: F1-A1-C2-D2, and C1-E1-G1-A1 respectively, can be played interchangeably to function as either an F6 or C6 in 'root position' or as a '1st inversion' Dm7 or Am7 chord.

Korg's chord table recognition of the specific chord voicings I presented:

1) F1-C2-E2 : FMaj7
2) F1-B1-E2 : FMaj7b5
3) E1-A1-D2 : E7sus4
4) Eb1-A1-D2: EbMajb5
5) D1-Ab1-C2: D7b5

are an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT matter! They are simply: FLAT OUT wrong! Every chord must INCLUDE the essential 3rd of the chord, and none of the above, as interpreted by Korg, do. Since Korg ALREADY recognizes the above voicings (with the 3rd actually played), why would they need (or want) to assign the same chords to the SAME chord voicing played, but just with the 3rd left out as well? , especially when these chord voicings could be put to 'far more' PRACTICAL USE, interpreted as jazz style 'rootless' chords which many pro keyboardists ACTUALLY play. The ability to utilize these specific chord voicings as 'rootless chords' has a direct IMPACT on how professional you sound playing live jazz comping style keyboard piano in auto accompaniment mode. I play many (most)chords which include the root as well, but having the ability to expand your chord playing options (beyond plain vanilla) to also include rootless (tri-tone plus 9th or 13th) style chords, and with stacked 4ths in the right hand provides the ability (on the arranger) to produce more of a jazz piano sound: like McCoy Tyner, Wynton Kelly, or Bill Evans, and contempory jazz keyboard players like Jamie Cullum, Peter Cincotti, or Diana Krall. I hope Korg will finally wake up & see the light, by simply changing the FOLLOWING 5 chord type voicing recogntions (as well as and in ALL 12 keys, which comes to a TOTAL of: 60 chord recognition changes needed to be made):

1) F1-C2-E2 : Dm7(9) or Dm9
2) F1-B1-E2 : G7(13) or G13
3) E1-A1-D2 : C69
4) Eb1-A1-D2: F7(13) or F13
5) D1-Ab1-C2: Bb7(9) or Bb9

This is an all TOO IMPORTANT feature for any auto accomp arranger feature for ANY keyboard manufacterer to overlook. Not only will it attract more pro jazz players to arranger keyboard playing, but provide a uniform "chord recognition standard" among all arranger keyboard manufacterers as well.




Fran, I believe the function of the G70's 'adaptive chord voicing' feature has nothing to do with the the SOUND of your left hand: 'LIVE PLAYING' or even the keyboard's chord recognition of the chord voicings you play. You play a chord and the keyboard's chord recogntion table interpretes the chord voicing you play as a specific chord . . . period. I believe the function of the 'adaptive chord voicing' is providing 'auto accompaniment' parts which include IMPROVED 'voice leading' and bass lines, but doesn't effect the original chord recognition.



I can only say (for me) that the first criteria I look for beyond an arranger keyboard's sounds & styles, is whether it provides the jazz style 'rootless voicing chord recognition I've outlined. If not, I have to pass. I'm able to play keyboards that don't support this (if I had to), but why should I have to limit my playing style and sound? The fact remains (for me) that not until Roland (and/or Korg &GEM) FINALLY include the jazz style chord voicing recognition I'm looking for, will I be able to seriously consider adding a G70 or PA1Xpro for professional performance. Until then, I'll be sticking with Yamaha, or even possibly adding a used Technics KN7000.

Ok, so far, most all of the past arranger keyboard complaints I've made here have been 'eventually' acknowledged & corrected by the associated manufacters. I only hope this particularly important one doesn't fall on deaf ears by Korg, GEM, or Roland, as I think I've presented my points pretty clearly here. I encourage Korg, GEM, and Roland owners to pass this on.

Thanks again to everyone for all your help in promoting this. You might not care about this feature today, but as your keyboard chord playing skills grow, you'll definitely appreciate having it. - Scott

------------------
http://scottyee.com

Well Sott, you didn't asked for it, but my old casio only interprets the No3 chord, and if I am correct, it interprets it as an
A something sus4.

The same chord sounds when you press A1-D2-E3, and it doesn't sound like an E or C to me at all.

I know nothing of music theory, wish I had the patience to learn, but the "feeling" i get from this chord is an A, definitely not an E or C. I only know a song that uses it, and spent maybe 2-3 days trying to pick this chord by ear, the progression is Dm, this chord and Am.
I would happily mail the original mp3 and the 4 poly ringtone I made for my Nokia to anyone who would like to hear what I mean.