Hi Folks,
I was listening to FM today and hear what I think is a rip off of Bette Middler "Wings beneath my wings"... I think the song is called "You raise me up"... But I could be wrong. It played all the time... Anyway... This is a chorus Q? He repeats the exact same words 4 times on each chorus. Myself, I avoid doing it twice. I feel I'm cheating cause I haven't the creative ability to think of other words to use... Maybe it's just me. Song writing would be a hell of a lot easier for me if I could just repeat the chorus over and over again... But for me, as I said I feel that's cheating... Any opinions?
Thanks,
DJ

Brings to mind Sting's chorus: "Sending out an S.O.S."...the repeat it 50 or 60 times.
...L

[This message has been edited by shboom (edited 02-28-2004).]

You know, while reflecting, I may have been guilty myself... But they where all short phrases... I suppose, what caught me was the length of the chorus and the repeating of it with not a word changed...
I suppose that's why I started this thread to get opinions...
DJ

talk about repeats,there was a song that went continuesly,,,,,,,UP AND DOWN,AND UP AND DOWN,and to think it sold millions,and i don,t know who wrote it or sung it.mike

DJ
For me, though I do understand what you are saying here and try not to even repeat the same word 2x's in a verse.....sometimes a cut calls for it depending on what it is you are trying to say.

My latest on my site has a cut that the beginning of each line (except for the chorus) starts with "So many" that is the theme of the cut though and is what I felt was needed to express what it is I was trying to say.

If you take your thoughts a bit further to the larger picture of a complete cut, the chorus is an exact repeat of the previous chorus.

Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

Hi DJ

I think that a song lyric should get the story across in the simplest form that it can. Most of my problems when writing lyrics have been a direct result of me 'trying' to be clever or witty with the words.

Sometimes when I 'try' too hard it shows in the lyric and the song feels laboured and it becomes hard work to listen to. My best lyrics (or at least the popular ones) more or less write themselves. I just go with the flow and let it develop if that makes any sense. If that means repetition then so be it.

For example take my song 'Soldier Boy'. I was never really fond of it and yet it generates possibly more comments than most on my website and it is full of repetition. Every verse starts with the words 'Soldier Boy' and the 4 line chorus is repeated so often I got sick of singing it!!

I do think though that it is important to practice the basics and try to work within the accepted structures and rules of writing a lyric. I can get a bit obsessed with writing lyrics with tight rhymes and with an appropriate consistent meter. I think part of the 'fashion' today is to throw away the rulebook and be 'creative'. Hence (imho) half the songwriting boards on the web are filled with the mad jottings of someones mind, lumped together and called a song! No discipline or structure and it shows!

I know that sounds bad or snobby but what I mean is that it is fine to work outside the rules and be abstract BUT surely in order to do so you have to be able to prove that you can actually 'DO' the basics or the 'real thing' first?

A little bit like Picasso... loads of uninformed people look at his work and will say things like "My three year old paints like that" But look at some of his more 'conventional' work and you realise that the guy was a true artist who just took his work to a different level. In my mind his 'unconventional' work has even more merit because he had the proof that he could do 'conventional' and brilliantly.

I love to write lyrics and ultimately I do it because I really enjoy it. If other people like them then that is even better.(and such a buzz). Still I consider that I am just begining to learn the craft (and having a ball doing so) so I am happy to make mistakes and write 'dud' songs. The main thing I have learned is that you can never tell. The songs I write that I pesonally love are usually dud (probably because I was self indulgent when writing them) and the songs that I think are dud often get a much better reception.

I would not worry too much though DJ, at least you are writing, and being creative and from your past efforts your lyrics are imho really good.
Best wishes
Tony

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www.tonywmusic.co.uk

It never ceases to amaze me about the lack of creativity when it comes to song lyrics. It's apparent that many of those coposing the lyrics do not have the ability to write their own name twice without misspelling it at least once.

There was a time when a song actually told a unique story, but that's no longer the case. The repitive nature of lyrics is now such that all that's required to write a song is a 10-word vocabulary, and in some instances, 3 words would be just fine.

I'll stick with the old stuff--it makes sense!

Cheers,

Gary

I like the old stuff too, Gary. They just don't write songs with meaning anymore, such as "Who Put The Bomp In The Bomp-sh-bomp-bomp", or whatever it was.
There are good and bad old songs, and good and bad new songs. I really like Tony's post.
DonM

How many times did we sing "Nah, Nah, Nah Nanana Nah .... " at the end of Hey Jude? 2 or 3 minutes, I think !
From a creative point of view, it may seem redundant, but from a marketing view .... the crowd really seems to latch on and sing along to mindless repeats. Think of the "Sha la la's" in Brown Eyed Girl, or the Chorus for "Old TIme R&R" ..... the entire room is usually singing those parts.

Right or wrong, creative or boring ..... it doesn't seem to matter. The layman appreciates something that they can identify with. Maybe that's the whole secret to the success of R&R over the years. It's music for the people, not for musicians. We can all master those few chord changes right away, but it's the energy and "crowd appeal" that make it work.

If you want to make money - play the hits. (over, and over, and over)
If you want to make a statement - write your own stuff and play it to any audience you can find!

Many of us find a nice balance between the two in our nightly endeavors. I don't love every sond I sing, but I DO love it when the song goes over well.

So, keep on singing those repetitive phrases and watch the faces of your audiences. It just might give you the "spark" you need to appreciate the beauty in redundancy...... again !

Gary,
While there are many great old songs there are also many great new songs as well that tell stories and are nothing short of great creative writing abilities. IMO.
Terry

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jam on,
Terry http://imjazzed.homestead.com/Index.html

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 02-29-2004).]

Let's talk...Blues
Now I'm not going to generalize here, 'cos I love blues, I play blues, I enjoy the freedom of the blues...but...
Break down some old blues lyrics, and here I'm refering to the 1st line, 2nd line (repeat of the first) followed by a tag at the end.
Example:1st lyric line:"My baby done left me...yes she's gone away"
2nd lyric line:"I said my baby done left me...yes she done gone away"
Tag:"But she said, "Don't you worry baby, I'll be back someday"
Again, not all blues falls into this category, but a lot does. Take the Tracy Chapman number "Gimme one reason".
Now break it down. Comments??

Just my thots..

...L (and I still love the blues)

It all depends on what your ultimate goal in writing a song
will be. "Gentle on My Mind", "Snowbird" and "Sunday
Morning Coming Down" generate a mood. And they do it with
creative complex lyrics. And then the Judds "Grandpa - Tell
me about the Good Old Day" certainly stirs emotions with
much simpler lyrics.

Yet KC and the Sunshine Band created a monster commercial
hit with "That’s the Way I Like It". Very repetitive and no
creative lyrics (IMHO) what-so-ever. In fact, I once
watched a program where psychologists explained the
phenomenal record sells of this song was due because of the
repetitive nature of the vocals in the song that was not
even words. (Now how in the world people connect to such
lyrics or non-lyrics will remain a mystery to me.)

I don’t know if I would call repetitive lyrics cheating but
it almost appears to be the lazy way out. Almost the same
way that a cheap rhyme really bothers me. Yet, there is no
doubt that that some writers who have done both: cheap
rhymes and repetitive lyrics have created a mountain of
money by taken the "lazy way out".

Floyd

PS Then again, who am I to use cheap cliches like "mountain
of money". Just testing the waters on how the other half
lives.

Soon to be Lazy Hound Dog Floyd.


[This message has been edited by ByRequest (edited 02-29-2004).]

[This message has been edited by ByRequest (edited 02-29-2004).]

Yea, and dont forget that Monster lyricle hit for Chuck Berry.."My Ding-a-Ling"