From another thread.....
quote:
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Originally posted by cassp:

One thing that I have trouble with on arrangers is finding a style to go with a song like Crazy Love. Maybe that's why I get frustrated, because these things aren't really made for songs like that - and I like doing songs like that. Last night at band practice we tried to put together the Allman Brothers' Midnight Rider - no luck finding even a compromise style.

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Casp, Coincidentally, I was messing with a style doing midnight rider on the s900 when I changed which ots I was using, changed from key of A to Em, and wound up with the "improv at the pad" which I submitted a few days ago.
I will record it later today, when voice and fingers wake up more, and show the same style used for midnight rider as was used for my Improv.
As UD says you only need a few good styles to do tons and tons of songs. (paraphrased from UD) BTW I REALLY enjoyed your Crazy Love and will also look for a style on the s900 that I would use for it.
Jim

I hope you all Enjoy.
Questions and feedback welcome
Jim http://www.box.net/shared/hpk1ng3yi8

Hi Jim,

I was getting some distortion on your recording...perhaps it is only me?

Ian

Alright, Jim good job!

I heard that hum too; were you using a guitar with humbuckers or something? It's only noticeable at higher volumes.

What style did you use; that WAS a good choice. If possible, I would suggest a different harmony setting. The song begs for that upper fifth. Otherwise, fine job!

The thing you have to watch out for on songs like Midnight Rider is that the bass line IS the melody (or hook, at least).

Try switching off the A BASS part, and PLAYING the correct bass line (you can still chord with your right), or chord with your left and play the bass line with your RH (transposed down, naturally!). You will find all kinds of styles work pretty well as long as you nail the bass part...

Jim,

I was getting distortion on the the whole recording...vocals included.

Ian

Ian, I don't know what to say. Playing it with windows media player on my laptop, full volume, flat eq, through phones, is a bit loud but no discernable distortion here. Are you listening with flat eq?

And Casp, What hum do you hear? Is it noticeable when no vocals are present?

I can re-record it a bit more subdued. In fact I will. Hopefully we will get rid of that distortion.

Diki, I hadn't even listened to this song in years and had no idea about the bass part. I thought the style worked pretty well for the song. Added the latin percussion multipad throughout. I perform it in a different key from the original also (A vs D)and I'm surprised that wasn't mentioned. In fact if that wasn't caught I feel my presentation works well enough on it's own merit.

Whats most interesting, I think, and no one mentioned anything about this, is that the entire vocal you listen to is nothing but the harmonizer. You don't even hear my original voice until the end where I do not chord with left hand for a chorus.
I think the harmonizer sounds pretty realistic and not too mechanical/robotic, whatever, as no one even caught this?

Casp, that's why you are not hearing the harmony you expect to because you are ONLY hearing the harmony and not my voice with it.

Anyways I had fun with it. Man I love this board.
Thanks for listening and your comments,
Maybe next time I'll do a song I know better.
Jim

Ok, Maybe this explains something, though why I do not hear the distortion somewhat baffles me. Anyways the 1st mp3 posted was recorded onto the usb storage then played through a behringer headphone mixer with both bass and treble added, then recorded using cakewalk music creater 2003, and converted to mp3 using cakewalk and It may have recorded hot, though it sounded ok to me.
Now then, this is the original recorded to usb and then converted directly to mp3 using windows media players audio conversion at 192 bit rate. To my ears it's every bit as hot.

Please let me know if the distortion exists in this, the original recording. If so then the whole number needs to be re-recorded.

Thank you again for your input,
Jim

Woops forgot to add link http://www.box.net/shared/legrc4tzpv

[This message has been edited by OldNewb (edited 09-13-2007).]

Oh Casp, I'm sorry, you asked what style was used. It was the same style as used on the "Improv at The Pad" I recorded a few days earlier. The RockGtrBallad style.
I increased tempo from 75 bpm to 93bpm,
changed the S.Art WarmElectric (right 1) voice to the Live! SlideSteel, added latin LatinPerc3 multipad (2nd varriation) and used the 2nd style variation throughout, hitting the Break button during the instrumental.

With "Improv at The Pad" the entire song was done using a repeated 2nd intro and then using the 2nd variation as the break.
Amazing what can be done with some experimenting.
I've honestly never had so much fun in my life as the last few years since I found this forum and picked up my 1st decent arranger keyboard the psr 2100.
Any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
Ohhh, this was done live, one take. Nothing was added using cakewalk other than tweaking the bass and treble to my taste through my headphone mixer (on the 1st mp3)
Thank you again for listening and for your input.
Jim

Following Diki's response, I went down and tried a couple slow rock styles with only drums and bass - sure enough, I could get that Midnight Rider feel. So that works.

I've posed this question before - if you're going to use drums and left hand bass, why are you buying a $3000 behemoth that's supposed to do everything but wipe your butt?

I already know the reply, but go ahead anyway; I asked for it. And while you're typing that, I'll read up on the XK-1 again.

OK, the newer mp3 is cleaner and the effects on the harmonizer sound much stronger - too strong. And when you sing "not gonna let em' catch me, no..." you should sing that note UP not down. Now that you've let the cat out of the bag, I listened to the vocals minus the original; mostly OK. Why didn't you want your original voice (note) there?

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 09-13-2007).]

Well, I wasn't going to comment much on anything about the demo, mostly because I thought someone was pulling my leg...

OF COURSE there wasn't any original voice there. OF COURSE it sounded like bad Alvin and the Chipmunks. OF COURSE it wasn't even the right chords, and the style was nothing like the original. (It often helps to go back and listen to the original BEFORE you choose a style!). But other than that...

Thanks for playing...

But as a demo of the S900.... well, I wouldn't buy one for that harmonizer, for one thing, and if that's Yamaha's idea of Southern Rock, well, I wouldn't use one in Dixie if I were you!

And actually, cassp, the reason I use a big old expensive arranger is so I can use it any damn way I want

If a tune NEEDS LH bass (as this one demonstrates), I can do it. 76 keys is a BIG help when you use LH bass. If it needs full arranger, I can do it. If it needs SMFs and three splits, I can do it.

But to the main question of 'Why play LH bass on an arranger?', I guess you can break this into two parts.,. 'Why play LH bass?' and if you REALLY need an answer to that, you don't listen to a lot of bass players... The bass line is nearly as important as the melody, when it comes to making a tune memorable. It leads the chords (unlike arranger bass lines) and gives direction to the harmony, and acts as a powerful rhythmic element.

And 'Why on an arranger?' as if to say, 'why not on some OTHER type of keyboard?', well, if other keyboards were as flexible about their rhythm options, maybe I COULD use them for that (if not as an arranger), but as of now, even if you only use an arranger for drums and do EVERYTHING else yourself (as me and my guitarist do on much of our show), it still outperforms any drum machine made, with four Intros, four Endings, four patterns and seven fills all linked together. So, even if I weren't using arranger mode at all (but I do!), the arranger would STILL be the best choice of performance tool.

And they STILL don't make a drum machine with full Roland V-Drum Kits in them. The reason you spend MORE for a TOTL arranger is that is capable of doing MORE than any other keyboard (or combination of gear). Whether you use it ALL, all the time is up to you and your tastes...

Got it, Diki. I knew it was coming and I knew you'd be the one to set me striaght. Keep on dancin'...

You know Diki, your last reply seems like nothing but a personal attack against me to me and I can not figure out why. Nothing I said to you was said as an insult. There was certainly nothing constructive said by you. It seems to me you are taking something personal from my previous reply. I don't believe for a minute you withheld comment thinking it was a "joke". I've read your posts long enough to know you wouldn't hold back. I think you never thought it was bad and then searched for a way to rip it up after I commented that you didn't comment. Why? I don't know. But your comments don't bother me even as extreme as they are. In fact it's because they are so extreme that I feel you are showing your hand. I am not biased about Yamahas vs Rolands Vs Korgs for it to affect my hearing. I KNOW what I hear is not all that bad and I didn't even try all that hard. This was only a few minutes work. And the vocals are nowheres near Alvin sounding as you say. Considering what it is, an electronic processor, I insist that it's not too bad. Whats the matter are you afraid some might think it's as good as the G70's harmonizer. I know it's not as good, but it is still a viable tool!
And the Chords were not OF COURSE wrong. It was just a different key. There is a difference ya know?
And what's this about the style being nothing like the original? what are you saying? Was the Allmans original done using a style? What arranger did they use then? Huh? Oh, you must mean the style I used didn't sound anything like the original song...Oh sheeeesh...Diki.... I wasn't trying to create a song style. I didn't search all over for a style for this song. I was just messing around and this style just "kind of fit" That's all I ever said. And if you can't agree that it works than you need to pull that great big stick out of your you know what.
Your musical talent is only surpassed by your talent for taking things personal and for speaking too soon IMO!
No Further comment.

Thank you Casp for the update on it sounding cleaner. In hind sight, I guess I'm not all that concerned. The only reason I did the number was to show that there are viable styles that can work. Now if you want/need it to be exact, you can either spend more than the few minutes that I did, or you can maybe find a good smf and try to get a style that way. I thought I'd read the Rolands totl has smf to style conversion abilities right on board.

I guess I sang that one note down rather than up was due to the fact I was working totally from memory of many years ago, that and the fact I'd probably listened to Willie's version about as much as the Allman Bros.
Don't get down on the board you use is all I was trying to get across in the first place. Just have fun and take things as they come. It'll come to you in time.
Jim

Jim, thanks for posting your Allman Brothers S900 recording effort. I thought the style sounded fine, with nice guitar backing.

That said, I myself would never attempt to drive the Yamaha VH the way you did, with such a high degree of exposed vocal harmony (& associated distoration), reulting in, if not Alvin & his brothers themself, close cousins. I would prefer you kept your VOICE as dominant LEAD voice, with the backup harmonies lower in volume than yours.

That said, did you simply utilize one of the S900 VH presets? Not sure, but I believe you might be able to improve the VH sound quality by creating your own "CUSTOM VH VOICE" file. There should be a dedicated section in the S900 manual that goes over all the MANY (over 25+?) VH parameters you can customize & store to achieve this. I can only say it substantially improved the results I'm getting on my T2, as I never use ANY of the preset settings, but use them as a point to start from to create my own settings & tweaked for my voice.

As far as the LH bass line issue goes, so what if it isn't exactly like the Allman Brothers cover version, it's YOUR RENDITION afterall, and sounds fine to me. If you want to play LH bass lines, fine, but the overall result (and except for the VH backup) sounds fine to my ears, and I'm sure most of your listeners as well.

Btw: how r u progressing with your hand injury recovery? Glad to see you aren't letting it hamper with your music-making.

- Scott

Thank you Scott for your honest constructive critisms. Actually I do not plan on using the harmonizer function at all once I get out playing again. Heidi and I will only do live vocal duets. But I will probably delve into those parameters someday. Thank you.
As far as my hand, I saw my surgeon yesterday (Wednesday) and was told I need not wear the splint any longer but that I also could not just go and do anything I want with my hand. However it will only be another couple weeks before I can.
I still struggle with a lot of pain and stiffness, limited mobility, but the probability of tearing the surgical repairs is a lot lower now. The tendons are still healing, but are almost fully healed.
The nerves however, the numbness to two of my fingers could take another 9 months to completely fade.
I'm feeling much better. Thank you for asking. It's been a loooonnngg 3 months. When I can start really start playing again you'll probably see way less of me here. I'll be busy playing those sweet SA's
Jim

Look, I'm sorry if this got taken the wrong way, but your post asking if anyone had NOTICED the all harmonizer vocals was, I thought, in jest. How could anyone NOT...?

Secondly, and probably BECAUSE you haven't heard it in years, I thought I might comment about the chords. They ARE wrong, at the bit where it goes ''and I'm not gonna catch, not gonna catch the midnight rider'. Download and listen to it before you correct me again, please.

I started out this thread trying to be useful, but the tone you took in getting smug about no comments about the harmonizer kind of got to me. From that, I took it that you actually WANTED some honest feedback. I gave it. Sorry...

This is not a Roland Yamaha thing. I'll comment the same way no matter WHAT brand of arranger does it (I would HATE the G70's harmonizer cranked up like that, too!). And it's not a personal attack on you. It's a comment about a recording of a song. With nothing but harmonizer instead of singing, and the wrong chords (in places) and a style that struggles to capture the feel of the original (even if you can get past the 'Cher' vocals)...

I tried to be helpful at the beginning, and you MIGHT notice that no-one made ANY comment about the recording at the start (just some distortion issues). This MIGHT clue you in the fact that others didn't quite know WHAT to say... either.

But please, if in future you want NO negative comments, well, first of all, say so! And secondly, don't berate us for not commenting about obvious things. I was trying to be polite until you did that!

OK its slightly more set-up work, (And requires a bit more practice) but if you want to play Bass Lines why not get yourself a Pedalboard and use your left foot for the Bass, (After all that’s what Pedalboards are designed for) that way you can play your left hand chords, right hand melody etc, all at the same time.
Just another option

Bill

Bill - my point exactly. Certainly playing lefthand bass is a useful tool, but if it is what you do more often than not, why are you buying all that excess? My Crumar pedals sit under the keyboard at home all the time and I also have had midi pedals. What I'm seeing are too many players who have the latest technology in front of them (like me), but they don't need it all, want it all or can use it all. Most of us are still seeking simplicity in all of this excess. As I said on another thread, we are all just legends in our own minds anyway. The SZ is our diversion.

Diki - I've come to accept your biting criticism as just a matter of style rather than intent (so to say). But you need to realize your criticism is often the type that takes the air out of anything else that's been said. With that in mind, don't stop posting, just keep in mind your opinions and criticism can come off as abrasive. Peace, bro.

NewB - It's obvious from your comment to me that you were still upset at Diki's remarks. That's cool - there was unrest all over the SZ yesterday; bad air, or something. Anyway, I believe you put that song out there for people like me to hear Midnight Rider because it had been mentioned in that previous post. So you didn't spend any time on it and you got a little burned because maybe you should have spent a LITTLE time on it. Hey, any time you post audio/midi on the SZ you better be belted down and prepared for any type comment. Personally, I thought the rhythm and your left hand (I think) did an OK job for that song - would you sell a million copies, I think not. Wrong chords; sometimes I cringe when I hear someone performing and playing wrong chords, but I didn't have that reaction, maybe because it was a one-take thing and it just didn't matter that much.

One of things I sort of stayed away from for a long time was people posting their recordings; mainly because I internally felt some were not that good and I could do a lot better. BUT, I never posted anything because my only experience with recording was with a 24-track set-up at my brother-in-law's. Once I got up the nerve to record on my own with a simple 4-track digital, my fellings changed. Now I look forward to others posting music and replying to mine. For me it's a much better use of my SZ time than reading about how self-important we try to make ourselves or how this or that keyboard sucks more than than another. Man, for a few hundred (maybe thousand) bucks, these things are phenomenal.

Let me close by saying I appreciated and enjoyed your song. I know, you know and anyone else who hears it knows it's not a professional demo - that was not the point. you put it out there for whatever reason and some people took a couple pot shots - for whatever reason. There was some misunderstanding of motives. That's going to happen here. Wake up, enjoy the sunshine and thank God you've got another day on this great planet.

Uh, isn't that essentially an organ. Also, wouldn't you have to be a trained organist to make that work?

chas

To follow up, and believe me, I'm not trying to be a smartass here, unless you're Barbara Dennerlin (sp), it is very difficult to get anything more than a basic foundation out of pedal bass. That's why literally all the great jazz organist played left-hand bass, using the pedalboard only to add a little visual pizazz and put some "attack" on the bass note. And this was true even with the handful that were proficient on the pedals.

Good for ballads, waltzes, and 2/4; not much else. JMO.

chas

...And yes, I spent 1300.00 for a PK7 pedalbord to compliment my Nord C1. Why? Because I'm an idiot.

chas

Hi Chas
Most videos of players tend to point the camera at the keyboards to show the finger work, but if you see a player live you will find that the Bass Pedals are used just as much to give a solid foundation and drive to the music.
If you wish to play the Toccata and Fugue in Dm or other classical pieces then yes you will need training; however for most music you can learn it yourself.
E.g.: Bass pedals are laid out exactly the same as a keyboard, therefore instead of playing the bass notes with your left hand, play them with your left foot. (Its no different then going from an Auto to a Stick shift Gearbox, it soon starts to become second nature)
Hope this helps

Bill

Bill, we can agree to disagree (in a friendly manner, of course), but I have been playing jazz organ for forty years. I know or knew or played with or opposite most of the jazz organ greats of the 60's, 70's, and 80's, and I stand by what I said. You simply cannot emulate an electric or acoustic bass (which is what arranger bass AND LH bass attempts to do) with pedals. The human foot is just not that agile. And for the record, it's not THAT easy to master, either.

Respectfully,

chas

Have to agree with my buddy Chas. I saw Jimmy Smith use pedals tastefully on "What are you doing for the rest of your life" and a couple of other balads, but he, Groove Holmes and most others of that era and style used left-handed walking bass.

It's just not possible to get that speed and accuracy with your feet, and the combination of the left-handed bass and right hand covering either chords or solo (given the layering possible with drawbars) was/is an integral part of the art form.

I've done it that way for years. For legit music (eg. conservatory level material)-all the rules change. Of course, that's written with bass lines, chords and lead lines-entirely different from the B-3 styles we are familiar with.

What a delight to play that style....

Russ

I can get around on pedals..walking bass lines etc..for a short period of time..a 3 or 4 hour gig...forget it...That is why God gave me left hand fingers...

Hi All
Interesting that, after a bit more research I have found that most US players as you say don’t use pedals much, whereas players in the rest of the world (Particularly Europe) place a much greater emphasis on them. (I am Not including Classical trained or Theatre organists, some of who can play Flight of The Bumble Bee on them)
It is also interesting to note that, (Although I am not sure about the US) the most popular add on for an Arranger is a set of Bass Pedals. (Manufactures have to make sure that their stands designed for arrangers can accommodate a set of Bass Pedals, or they don’t sell many)
Isn’t it great to have such diversity in the world, life would be really boring if every country was the same.
Regards

Bill

The truth is, much of European music uses far simpler bass lines for things like schlager, alpenmusik, and simple pop based things that ARE performable by pedals (and a lot of arranger players use the pedal to input the lowest note for inversion purposes, so the arranger still plays the line), but much jazz and US R&B, funk, disco, you name it, these guys aren't playing THOSE lines on the pedals (except the odd virtuoso like B. Dennerlein).

Pedals are good for a reduction, a simplification of the line, but once you start to perform musics where the bass line is integral to the rhythm section, very slick and syncopated, that's tough for the feet to do well.

I spent a few years when I first started playing keyboards doing bass pedals, but it became quickly obvious, as first Motown, then funk came along that doing these things with your feet was close to impossible. I can do a waltz or a fox-trot with the best of them, but a funk line...? Forget it!

But it's nice we're talking about bass lines at all, something I consider the Achilles Heel of arrangers. Bass players are always walking TOWARDS the next chord, while arranger bass lines are walking AWAY from the current one (they never know the next chord until you play it for them!). It's SO obvious once you listen for it...

And once again, sorry for the comments about Midnight Rider. I honestly thought that a real critique was what he was after!

I enjoyed the comments on the last 8-9 posts. For one thing, it shows the dilemma of style makers trying to satisfy the needs of both a US and Euro market. Still, it's interesting to know and share what people are doing on the opposite shore and how music styles influence our playing technique. Too bad we had to hijack this thread in order to discuss it .

chas

Why are add-on pedal boards SO expensive? They usually have no tone generation, they usually aren't velocity or pressure sensitive (good job, too!), and they usually are too damn small (I want at least 17 notes for a decent line, if not the full two octave B3 monster!).

Yet they cost as much as the keyboard you are adding them to, half the time. First guy to come out with a cheap, simple C-F pedalboard makes a fortune, IMO... Make it dumb (nothing but on/off and select MIDI channel) and let the arranger/organ handle the rest. No volume pedal (we got those already!), no registration select, no leslie kick buttons. Simple, durable and cheap...

C'mon, all you manufacturers...

Dunno, but I suspect it has to do with build quality. If you're going to pound something all night, night after night, it had better be well built (and that includes girlfriends). I used to have a PK-5 which I eventually gave away (mainly because of the 13 pedal limit) but in the time I owned it, it never burped once, a testiment, I guess, to Roland build quality.

For the record, Diki, the "7" has 20 pedals (C-G) and a on-board expression pedal. If you plan on using the old B3 trick of tapping on a pedal (usually the A pedal) to get some attack on your left hand bass, forget it, doesn't work very well. Best use is to midi it to a bass program that has the attack, sustain, and release that you want, already built in.

chas

This discussion of bass pedals is great. chas is right about playing midi pedals in general. They are either flat dead or sustain for eternity. I bought an old set of Crumar PB2 to replace my PK5 and MidiStep pedals. The Crumar is old and self-contained. It has a 16' and 8' sound and... volume and sustain wheels. The adjustable sustain is what makes them so nice. Just enough to sound more realistic than the modern midi pedals - unless you go into your sound source and edit a sound specifically for the pedals.

I don't think anyone who plays pedals, plays them without inserting a little left hand. Today's music is very bass oriented, so playing those logs ain't what it used to be. I've seen Felix Cavalieri play foot bass in concert and he does a great job, but it's something most good B3 players could do. Today most guys you see playing B3 are standing up and don't even have the pedals attached.

I think there are a lot of ex-organ players here so this discussion should move to its own posting.

Thanks, chas. Yeah, I knew that about the PK-7 (20 note - I can get by with 18, though!), and of course, know all about the Roland build quality...!

But even so... $1300!

Only $300 less than an S900, dammit!

The thing about adding an extra transient to a LH bass line can be done with a vel-switched extra LH Part, these days. Just set it up so that only high velocity triggers it, and you do away with the pedals almost altogether (nice though they are!)...

Why is it that midi pedals do a lousy job with notes? I've used sounds that had a lot of presence and long release, but as soon as you use a midi keyboard, the note seems to lose all its dynamics and effects.

Not sure I got that, cassp... you mean when 'you use a midi keyboard, the note seems to lose all its dynamics and effects' you mean 'you use a MIDI pedal board'?

MIDI pedal boards don't usually send MIDI velocity (it's hard to control with your feet!), and you usually have to set up an arranger carefully for the MIDI pedals to access the same channel you are using for the M BASS Part, so it gets the same effects, but perhaps I'm just not reading this right....

Can you describe the problem better (are you using pedals now)?

Yeah, I did mean PEDALboard. Now you should know from owning one that a board like the PK5 is strictly note on/off or on/hold. If you play and physically hold a pedal down it will play at that set volume, but upon release there are none of the effects that are built into that sound. If you do the same on a pianokeyboard, the note reverberates, sustains, releases differently... all that stuff you would expect. Why can't pedalboards do that simply? They should be no different than, say a 25-note midi controller. Better?

I think it's a case of making sure that the pedals either actually DOES address the same Part that you are playing from the keyboard (which it doesn't, usually, coming in from the MIDI input), or finding a way to edit the Part it IS addressing with the sustain and so forth commands to get those on the bass part.

Do you have another MIDI keyboard you can send into the MIDI port to see if (when set to the same MIDI channel) you still get the same sound...?

What you MIGHT have to do (I've not done this myself, so take this advice with a grain of salt!) is set up a Sequence, with the Bass sound and parameters set the way you want (possibly Makeup Tools can get to the Sustain and effects parameters you want), and Link it to the UPG you are using.

But I could be totally off base, here. Derek Miles, I think, at roland-arranger is our pedal guru there. Maybe he can help you?

But my feeling is that the pedals are NOT addressing the same Part as you play for M BASS on the keyboard, and this is why you are hearing something different...

I don't need the help. I was only explaining a situation. I don't use midi pedals anymore, and it seems you aren't familiar with the problem either. How can you own a PK7 and not know how the bass notes sound? As I said earlier, they are either on/off or on/hold - unless thru some magical programming you gurus know, default parameters are changed. I ask you to set up any keyboard and just set up a bass patch. Forget about arranger mode, just go straight midi; you can try arranger mode later but it shouldn't make a difference. Plug in your PK7 and see the difference between hitting a note on the pedalboard and and the same note on the keyboard. A difference like night and day; that's what I'm talking about. If you've never played midi pedals then you don't know what happens. If you have, there is NO not knowing, it's so obvious.

That's why I went out and got an old set of Crumar pedals; self-contained sound, volume and sustain control. Simplicity.

Wrong guy, cassp... I don't own ANY pedals. Just trying to help...

Hi Cassp
When you compare the note played on the keyboard with the same note played on the pedals, do you make sure that dynamics (Velocity) and after touch (Pressure) is turned off on the keyboard, as if not the sounds produced will be totally different. (The PK7 as you say is just full on, full off)
If the above is the case then you will need to purchase a dynamic pedalboard, (As far as I am aware there has not been a pedalbord made with after touch) that will give you a closer sound to the notes played on the keyboard.
Hope this helps

Bill

Sorry, Diki

I confused your post with an earlier on from chas. Thanks for all the help you give to the SZ.

Many bass pedal sets allow you to set the velocity level yourself. If, for some reason, it gets sent as a 127, well, that's going to make just about ANY keyboard bass sound sound different unless you are banging the bejesus out of it!

Dial it down to maybe 100 or so, and it may start to sound a bit more like the keyboard version of the sound.