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#190388 - 10/17/05 09:06 PM
Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
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I was in Memphis today and went by Guitar Center to audition the Bose PAS. I expected to be totally blown away by it, but I wasn't. It had good high end, good mids, but the low end just wasn't right. It had one sub cabinet, by the way. I experimented by playing a digital recording of myself, recorded live on the job, made and played with the Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3. I know that the recordings had good, balanced sound, as I had listened to them through several different sound systems, including my Logitechs, Barbettas car stereo and headphones. My recordings were stereo WAV files, so I used a splitter and ran into two channels on the Bose. I tried different e.q. settings and different presets. The best I found was 55. At least you could HEAR the bass with this one, but it just didn't have that deep punch (can we say "balls" on here?). Unless it can be made to sound better, I wouldn't trade ONE of my Barbettas for the whole system. What did I do wrong? DonM
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DonM
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#190402 - 10/18/05 09:09 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
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The reason we haven't heard from UD (remember him? ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) ) is the Bose system[s] he purchased put him in such arrears financially that he had to sell his Computer to get out from under the debt and hence no more UD. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) Just kidding of course but could there be an ounce of truth to the above statement? ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) In my opinion the Bose PAS is "way" overpriced for what you get and it is such an obstacle to transport it/them and set them up, not to mention break them down and 're-transport' them. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.. Heave HO! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/eek.gif) Also Bose is very conniving in that they don't give the specifications on the PAS or any of their other products on their web site that I'm aware of. All other Companies that are respectable that I know of give all the "details" of their products right out in the open. Not so with Bose and in this case the PAS. You actually have to read the Owners Manual to get an inkling of the Specifications and unfortunately even the Manual is severely lacking regarding comprehensive detail as to its specifications. For instance there is no mention of the Sub's specifications in the Manual that I could tell. Bose marketing is just that, i.e. "Marketing". It's not about informing customers the intimate details regarding their products but about selling a 'name' to an unsuspecting and unaware public. They want to basically keep you in the dark and sorry to say it 'ignorant' about their products and want you to essentially trust them that they know what they're doing because "we've been in business soooooo long" and we're "BOSE" so you can trust us. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) It's all marketing hype and they're very good at it because they've been doing it for soooooo long. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) Give us your bucks and we'll give you.. er.. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/confused.gif) ... "oh, just trust us?" My 2¢ Best regards, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
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#190410 - 10/18/05 02:59 PM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5515
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
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23
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact
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#190411 - 10/18/05 03:23 PM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Mike, There are three 250-watt RMS amps in the base unit, one for each of the PAS segments. One for each section of the tower, and one for the sub. The peak power rating is 1,400-watts based on industry standards. As for the power and sound quality, I defer to my audiences--they're the ones I must please. Everyone, regardless of audience size, has raved about the system and how wonderful everything sounds. Now the folks in the back of a large hall can hear the same volume and quality as the folks sitting 15 feet in front of the stage. It's a whole new dimension of sound systems available today, and if the Bose cost $3000 I would have still bought it withing blinking an eye. I more than a half century of working with sound systems, there is absolutely nothing that even comes close. And, now that I think of it, I spent nearly as much money on a pair or Barbetta Sona 32-Cs when you include the heavy-duty speaker stands and custom made cables. The difference between the systems was just about $350--big deal. I've spent $350 on high quality mics, and that was years ago. Damned I'm gettin' old! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) Cheers, Gary ------------------ Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#190414 - 10/19/05 06:42 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Yep, I looked in the mirror last week and there was an old man with white hair looking back at me. Then Miss Clairol and I had a serious conversation. Now there's an old guy with medium brown hair looking back at me. My wife says my mind keeps makin' appointments my body can't keep! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) Hey, at least darker hair shaves off a few years in appearance. In this part of the world, old guys with white hair don't get as many music jobs as those with dark hair--it's just a fact of life that we all have to deal with. Besides, it's kinda' fun gettin' oogled by relatively young ladies when you're playing in a dimly lit room. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) Cheers, Gary ------------------ Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#190416 - 10/20/05 09:21 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 1002
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
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Hello Folks, I may be a stranger to all of you. I’m one of those gray haired guys that Ms Clairol can’t help. I read this forum frequently and I was more active years ago when the hot topics were the Korg i40M (which I still use) and the Roland RA-800. I've been using a Bose L1 with a B1 bass bin for about 2 years now. I was very skeptical about the claims Bose made about this system. As it turns out, it was one of the best equipment investments I've ever made. I had several keyboard amps - including the JBL EON among many others that have been mentioned in this forum, and a Mackie 808S with Toa and then Bose 800 speakers that I used for bigger venues. I didn't like any of them (the keyboard amps), especially in the restaurants (although I still own a Barbetta amp as back-up). The patrons seated in front of me were obviously annoyed if I turned the volume up enough to reach past the far half of the room. The science of the Bose system is that there is very little drop off, so that what I hear from the speaker at 3 feet is pretty much what a listener hears at about 75 feet. I've yet to turn the volume up past 2 o'clock (12:00 being half way). That's outdoors and/or big halls. Last Christmas I played the Lulu Temple outside of Philadelphia that claims to seat about 1,000 - It probably only seats about 700 or so - and I was happy with the output. Same with outside gigs - clear, no distortion and in two years, I've never experienced any feedback. In the restaurants that I play, I put the tower against the wall, and it seems like it kind of disappears. I dealt directly with Bose as none of the retail outlets carried this system at that time. I was fortunate in that because I expressed so much skepticism and doubt about the system, Bose gave me a 90 day trial, and to be honest it took me the full time period to decide. I looked for reasons not to get it but I'm now happy that I didn't find any. I would suggest you tune into the Bose website forum and talk to folks about the concerns you have (other than the cost). You can also discuss your specific needs and concerns with Bose tech reps - they're pretty good about that. I'm tickled pink with this system after going through more than a dozen amps and PA systems in recent years. Further, I would bet that if you put some money up front, one of the retail outlets would let you try it for at least 30, 45 days or more - money back if it doesn't suit you. Ciao, Jerry
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#190419 - 10/20/05 10:32 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
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Originally posted by DonM:
The system delivers 750 Watts continuous power, broken down into 3x250 Watts (RMS). Each of the two sections of the L1 Cylindrical Radiator? loudspeaker handle 250 Watts and another 250 Watts are delivered into up to two B1 bass modules.
This is both the power rating of the power amplifiers and the loudspeakers. These ratings do NOT reflect the actual power that is typically produced by the power amplifier and consumed by the loudspeaker.
DonM 250W x "2" Cylindrical Radiator speakers = 500W. The Bass Module is separate from the Speakers so in actuality the Speaker output is 500W instead of the acclaimed 750W. Since Bose is evidently running the Amplifiers in "Bridged" mode the 'total' Wattage is 750W but again only 500 Watts are through the Cylindrical speakers since the Bass Module is separate from the output of the speakers themselves. Another thing to consider is Bose rates their loudspeakers at 4 Ohms. So at a rating of 250W at "4" Ohms could theoretically be a lot 'less' than the FTC-mandated "8" Ohm spec. In other words 250 at 4 Ohms would and could be as low as 125W per channel at the FTC-mandated 8 Ohm spec., with the variables being the impedance factor, power supply rating, quality of the amplifier itself, etc. So what Bose is trying to do in my opinion is make their Speakers look better by giving the 4 Ohm rating than giving the FTC-mandated 8 Ohm specification listing. I know I'm being overly technical but these things need to be pointed out. As to being over priced, well all I can say is Bose is making a boat load of profit on each PAS they sell and those who purchase one are paying way too much in my opinion and adding to Bose's already huge coffers while the customer is essentially buying a "name" and paying more for it as apposed to a competively priced "product" regardless of name. Another nit pik is the dimensions of the Base that the Radiators attach to. Too big and too cumbersome to transport in my opinion, let alone all the other 'pieces' to the puzzle that need to be transported along with it. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) You are essentially putting together a Speaker[s] System where instead a Speaker[s] should be one solid unit to begin with in my opinion and should not have to be 'assembled' and re-assembled with each use. Okay, I'll stop for now. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) If you don't mind the discrepancies and the added hassle to setup and tear down and the sound is adequate to your ears and more importantly to the audiences then more power to you. Realize though that you will need "2" Bose PAS "systems" to get stereo sound and also that Piano sounds on a keyboard are more than likely to be sampled in stereo so if you only have "1" PAS then because of the phase cancellation effect the Piano sounds you play may sound less than desireable and perhaps even muddy as Don mentioned. And if you happen to purchase "2" PAS systems you've just "doubled" the setup/tear down hassle plus you may need to purchase a bigger vehicle to transport them with. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) Not to mention your nearly empty bank account which was full before the PAS transactions. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) Okay, I'm through now... really. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) Best regards, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
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#190421 - 10/20/05 12:28 PM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Member
Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 1208
Loc: Syracuse NY
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JBL eon sub 2 ohms JBL won't even tell you the impedence of the eon G2, they tell you "Amplifier Power LF: 300 watts @ low-frequency driver impedance." ? If they weren't ashamed they'd tell you right up front in big letters. Call the FTC lets turn 'em in. and they charge $699 apiece Originally posted by keybplayer: I know I'm being overly technical but these things need to be pointed out. And then JBL takes the same tired design everybody has been using for years and they want to make a profit...shame on them. lets see 2 JBL eon G2's One sub woofer, stands, cables, monitors at least one to hear yourself. And a mixer. how much does all that weigh, not to mention cost? How many trips to the car is that? I'm not saying this system is for everybody or every situation, but I wonder why some people go to such great lengths to condemn what they don't understand. [This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 10-20-2005).]
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#190426 - 10/20/05 04:42 PM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Don, You're gonna' love what you hear. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) Give me a call and I'll walk you through the setup. The key to success is to set the volumes exactly as the instruction manual says and you'll have no problems. And, if you need a longer sub cable, let me know and I'll be more than happy to custome make one for you. Cheers, Gary ------------------ Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#190429 - 10/21/05 12:28 PM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2417
Loc: CA
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Originally posted by Dnj: What a load of crap............thanx for the laugh my friend .....this is why I dont listen to any of this stuff.....and make MY own decision with my own ears! I auditioned it, I bought it, I love its sound, my audiences love it, my back loves it, my pocket loves it...Nufff Said ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif)
What part was the load of c*** Donny? I was pointing out some facts and giving you my opionion which I am free to do right? Btw, I never said the PAS system was too heavy either. I guess I can assume part of the load of c*** you were referring to was when I said: "If you don't mind the discrepancies and the added hassle to setup and tear down and the sound is adequate to your ears and more importantly to the audiences then more power to you" - since you didn't make a distinction from your post. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif) It is your money and you can sure do what you want with it Donny. I never implied anything different. And when I made my statement about the PAS being 250W RMS I was referring directly from the Bose PAS Manual, nothing more nothing less. Only when I investigated further did I find that Bose "bridged" the Amps together increasing the Wattage. Too bad that info was not stated on their web site or more importantly in their Manual. Step away from the computer and get some fresh air my friend. And while your at it smell the roses.. ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/smile.gif) Best regards, Mike
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Mackie HR824 MKII Studio Monitors, Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro Mixer (made in USA), Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Shure SM58 vocal mic.
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#190444 - 10/25/05 09:03 PM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
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Just got in from the job. I must admit that the Bose is all that was advertised. I started out using #5, and it sounded really good, then I decided to try #55, and it sounded even better. I got lots of great comments from customers and staff alike, about how clear and smooth the sound was. The thing is really powerful too. I had the inputs on the base at 5, and the inputs on the remote a little less than 5. The master was barely cracked, maybe 2 or 3. The bass is strong and solid, the mids and highs crisp and clear. I can't wait to get it in a place where I can really crank it up. I placed the column a few feet behind me and to the right and the subcabinet just in front of it, directly to my side. That's the only place I had room, because the duo that's there on the weekend left their huge Yamaha speakers and powered mixer plus a table on the bandstand. I put on a midi file and took my cordless mic and walked all around the room. The sound carries remarkably well, not very directional at all. I plugged cables from the left and right outputs of the SD1 directly into channels one and two of the Bose. I plugged the output of the laptop directly into channels three and four of the Bose, so I could play MP3s on my breaks. Everything worked great. I will streamline the cables a little when I get a chance. So far, I must give the Bose an A Plus. I will try to get HankB over there tomorrow night to critique and see if any tweaking is needed. Thanks for all the help and advice, guys! DonM
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DonM
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#190445 - 10/26/05 05:42 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Like I said earlier--You're gonna' love what you hear, and your customers will love it more! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif) BTW, I was mistaken when I told you my preset was 57--I looked last night and it was 55. Cheers, Gary ------------------ Travlin' Easy
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#190446 - 10/26/05 06:10 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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Originally posted by DonM: Just got in from the job. I must admit that the Bose is all that was advertised. I started out using #5, and it sounded really good, then I decided to try #55, and it sounded even better. I got lots of great comments from customers and staff alike, about how clear and smooth the sound was. The thing is really powerful too. I had the inputs on the base at 5, and the inputs on the remote a little less than 5. The master was barely cracked, maybe 2 or 3. The bass is strong and solid, the mids and highs crisp and clear. I can't wait to get it in a place where I can really crank it up. I placed the column a few feet behind me and to the right and the subcabinet just in front of it, directly to my side. That's the only place I had room, because the duo that's there on the weekend left their huge Yamaha speakers and powered mixer plus a table on the bandstand. I put on a midi file and took my cordless mic and walked all around the room. The sound carries remarkably well, not very directional at all. I plugged cables from the left and right outputs of the SD1 directly into channels one and two of the Bose. I plugged the output of the laptop directly into channels three and four of the Bose, so I could play MP3s on my breaks. Everything worked great. I will streamline the cables a little when I get a chance. So far, I must give the Bose an A Plus. I will try to get HankB over there tomorrow night to critique and see if any tweaking is needed. Thanks for all the help and advice, guys! DonM Don.....Its gonna get better every time you use it on stage.....I keep the gain pods on the base for 1&2 at about 9......gain on the remote at 12 oclock..........Master remote at 11oclock......then just control levels from the KB master etc etc ........ The PAS wil do you right! ![](http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/wink.gif)
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#190449 - 10/27/05 06:14 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
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#190458 - 10/28/05 07:47 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
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Actually I already had the cables harnessed for my mixer, so I was able to use that. It's mostly a matter of transportation. I have laptop, pedals, mics, etc. I had it all really well organized before, and it's just a matter of spending a few minutes doing it again. Remember, I took the PAS to the job about 3 hours after UPS dropped it off, and it's been there since. Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to Hank's to pick up the Midjay again, now that I have time to experiment with it. Who knows, I may be able to do away with the van and get a VW to haul everything in! DonM
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DonM
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#190459 - 10/28/05 09:01 AM
Re: Bose PA questions
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Member
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 526
Loc: CA
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MidJay-Bose PAS Users, You're all right! This is the most compact system i've ever owned. Everything fits on my small Honda Civic Hybrid trunk. The Bose PAS base sit on the rear, my wife next to me & my son on the other rear seat. Regards, Jimmy
_________________________
Jim
SD90,Korg I3, KMA Liverpool,TC Helicon Play Electric, Fender Sonoran Guitar, vArranger, Bose S1 Pros, Bose L1 Compact, Aiwa Exos-9
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