I bought a new high end laptop, and have set it up yesterday to prepare the coming ..Hyper Canvas[soft synth from Edirol]..My old laptop didn't have enough ooofff to handle Hyper Canvas..I am running XP Professional..A few problems with my antique HP 5100c and 722c hardware, they suggest some work a rounds, but without success..I guess I will have to pick up new printer and scanner[USB]...Well Donny , Dave and I are ready for HC, are you almost ready[new laptop]?

What kind of Lt did you buy? specs....etc....I'm ready!

Compaq 2570US, pentium 4, 2.4, 512ram, 64ram graphic,USB2,firewire, DVD/CDrw , 40 gig HD etc..XP Pro..

With Hyper Canvas, can you just play midis from the LT and not go through the keyboard?
Are there free programs to do that? I really need something like that.
DonM

Fran, I have tested the Edirol HQ Sound Canvas and it is certainly a significant improvement over the previous VSC88 version. I believe this version has a 16 mb wavetable compared to others at 4 or so. It is expensive but it is worth it.

Fran what is this - all this modernizing??? Looks like the past is to be found only in the rear view mirror.

DonM, yes you can play midis just like with any sound module or keyboard with built in sounds. All you need is a good media player, e.g., VanBasco, etc. The sound card/chip needs to be up to the task as well so that you get acceptable performance (latency, noise, distortion and so on). I would think the new LTs are up to the task. For music you may need to disable the LT power management so that it does not go to sleep while you are in the middle of a performance.

If the built in sound chips are not up to the task you can always get outboard or plugin soundcards, e.g., Echo, etc.

Another good thing about the Edirol Softsynth is that it comes with very good effects (reverb, chorus) that respond to control changes from your midis or keyboard.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-30-2003).]

My laptop plays them fine, using Van Basco, but the sounds are not as good as playing them from the keyboard. I didn't know if there is a software fix, or a new sound card is needed.
Thanks,
DonM

DonM, if your LT is up to the task then installing the Edirol HQ Sound Canvas softsynth will make all the difference. It will sound as good as if not better then any of Roland's GM/GS modules. It will sound better then any of Yamaha's soft synths at 4mb - plus at a much better latency. In fact, with a midi controller (PSR 2000) you could play the soft synth live if you wish.

It is starting to look like DonM is ready to make investments in his future and leave some of us behind. Oh well!!!

Thanks Frank. My lt is top-of-the-line.
I have Yamaha Softsynth S-YXG50 in my PC. Would it work for this purpose if I put it on the laptop?
Don

Frank,

I have Hyper Canvas, but I need to go to cakewalk to load the softsynth, and then revoice the midis to let them play with HC.
As for as I know you can't use HC in combination with Vanbasco since its not standalone.
So if there is any way to play them using Vanbasco, then please explain, thanx.

Greetz ,
Wazza

Never mind,

I found a way already, I ran the synth on cubase and used midi yoke to send the data from vanbasco to cubase, It didn't work correctly on cakewalk though.

Greetz ,
Wazza

DonM, yes it will work similar to the Yamaha softsynth.

Wazza, you are right in that the Edirol HQ Sound Canvas needs a DX or VST host, e.g., Brainspawn, Console, Cubase or Sonar (if you already have these programs), etc. In addition, you have to attach your media player to the Host. You can do this using a number of alternatives, e.g., Midi Yoke (free), Ntonyx Matrix, MidiOverLan, Hubi Cables, etc. I often use Midi Yoke with good success. I believe the person who developed this software works for Cakewalk.

Finally, to satisfy yourself that everything works as it should you can download a demo of Edirol HQ Softsynth and test it before you lay down your hard earned cash. I have tested it and it works well on both of my regular computers with Windows XP.

Wazza, we must have responded at the same time.

As you know you need to download the appropriate DXi or VSTi version of the Edirol HQ Sound Canvas. In Cakewalk, you would need the DXi version or use their VST Adapter to convert to DXi. Given that Roland and Cakewalk have launched a partnership, I am certain if it doesn't work in Sonar it will very soon. I tested it in Sonar and it works. Sometimes it takes some expermintation with the drivers, e.g., WDM vs ASIO, setting of these drivers and so on.

You should not have to revoice any of the midis (assuming they are GM/GS). The HQ Sound Canvas does a good job of accepting Program Changes.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-30-2003).]

I need to make a correction here, i.e., the Edirol HQ Hyper Canvas weighs in at 26 mb not 16 as I indicated earlier.

Hi to all

Just 2 question:

With a laptop like that, what will be the latency if Hyper canvas is used in a live situation?

Can hypercanvas be used as softsynth with a soft arranger like omb?

Thanks

STAM, I am not certain what the built in sound chips are like for LTs, but on my regular PC and my VSL2020 soundcard I can operate the HQ Hyper Canvas at 2.9 ms. This is much better than hardware synths. In short, you notice no latency. In fact, anything less than 10 ms is good enough with the possible exception of drums and pianos played live.

You could use the HQ Hyper Canvas with OMB and Yamaha styles but you would need to tranpose the drum kits and ensure selection of appropriate drum kits for the styles. Otherwise you will end up with howling dogs, handclaps or other strange things (electronic kit instead of brush).

I should have noted that with the spec of Fran's Laptop he will be able to do all the things I currently do on my regular PCs - Kontakt, LiveSynth Pro, B4, Vocalizer, Live - Styler, Cubase SX and Project5 all running at the same time. He may need to get a Firewire HD, more memory and an Outboard Soundcard like Echo. On some of the other forums I attend, live (undead ones) entertainers are doing just that with a dumb keyboard attached. Small incremental costs for a rich man like Fran!!!


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-30-2003).]

Frank explain this a bit more please......

DNJ, on the Northern Sound Source, Tascam and Native Instruments Forums there are a few entertainers moving towards Laptops with midi controller keyboards for their live performances. With a carefully tweaked Windows XP LT the reliability of these systems equals that of regular keyboards. The sound quality greatly exceeds that of any high end keyboards (workstations or arrangers). In any event, if people are spooked by the use of this approach you could always use a Tyros, Motif or Fantom as your controller keyboard and revert to these sounds, albeit at a lower quality, should your LT fail.

Frank.....are they using these Kb's/Lt combos as arrangers or straight synths?

DNJ, mostly as straight keyboards (solo or in bands) but there are 1 or 2 using it as an arranger keyboard and midi file player. An example of a straight keyboard use might be ddas moderator of the NI Forum:
http://www.daviddas.com/index2.html

There is another guy I think his name is Bruce Richardson on the Northern Sound Source forum who uses computers/GigaStudio for live performances.

mhenningson, from the Brainspawn Forum is another person who uses this approach.

There are others but do not remember their names.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-30-2003).]

Frank......thats a great website , very kool pics of the setup and operation on stage.
Is a Mac LT a better way to go for all this high tech prog stuff?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-30-2003).]

" " " STAM, I am not certain what the built in sound chips are like for LTs, but on my regular PC and my VSL2020 soundcard I can operate the HQ Hyper Canvas at 2.9 ms. This is much better than hardware synths. In short, you notice no latency." " "


Frank, Do you want to say that on synths like the korg karma for example there is a latency of more than 2 ms?
I thought that on these machines latency was 0 ms!!
It was for me the great advantage of the hardware synths.

DNJ, the Macs have some pluses but in the main PCs are just as good for music after some tweaking of the Windows XP operating system.
http://www.musicxp.net/
http://www.nemesysmusic.com/pdf/optimizing-xp-and-2k.pdf

As has been stated previously on this forum there is far more software (including music) written for the PC. I would stay with a PC. Over the last year I have had may be a handful of crashes. These usually occur when I was editing large instruments or installing doubtful software. You would never do this on your performance LT!!!

STAM, yes hardware synths (keyboards or modules) often have latency around 10 ms. You can search this information on some of the forums I have indicated in a previous post. You can also check this on some of the SOS Reviews of GigaStudio, Kontakt, Halion, etc. It is just the way it is!!! Don't forget many of the keyboard manufacturers used 486 Processors until recently. Yes, they may use more than one processor (sound, effects, etc.) but it is hard to keep up with the top of the line sound cards and 3.0 GHz Pentium Processors.

Also, as I noted previously, once you get to latency of 10 ms or less most people won't notice it.

[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-31-2003).]

Frank......is it recomeneded to disable all of these 26 items on your XP program? and why?
http://www.musicxp.net/

DNJ, I would say the more you can disable of the things you don't absolutely need, e.g., Windows Messenger, Internet, games, etc. the better. In addition, the fewer things running in the background the better (fewer crashes/conflicts, more memory available, operates faster, etc.).

On my general purpose computer, I have not done any tweaking at all plus I use it for the Internet. I may have had few more crashes and it may run a bit slower - but is still very usable for music. It is just better to do the tweaks if your going to use the LT as your main axe. If you are just going to use it as you indicated earlier then you probably have to do no tweaking at all. It becomes more critical when playing premium instruments, e.g., Bardstowns' 2.5 GB Bosendorfer Piano while at the same time operating many different kinds of effects especially reverb, etc.

Furthermore, establish key restore points in Windows Xp. This can save you from 99.9% of most catastrophes.

DNJ, you will not regret taking the path you are on. You can start slow making sure everything is reliable, effective and efficient. This is the same thing you go thru with a new keyboard. You have to spent some time to get to know it and set it up.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-31-2003).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank L. Rosenthal:
[B]Furthermore, establish key restore points in Windows Xp. This can save you from 99.9% of most catastrophes.[B][QUOTE]

Keyrestore points?..........

DNJ, in Windows XP you can setup restore points. These restore points could be setup prior to any planned changes (installing new software, etc.). Should the changes go badly then you could restore your computer to its previous state within 2 or so minutes.

There are other methods you can use. You could make a ghost image of your operating system and programs and place it on a separate partition of the hard drive (or a separate hard drive). If something goes wrong you can reinstall this image. This would save considerable time compared to a full reinstall of Windows and all your Software. I don't use this approach but many do.


[This message has been edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (edited 08-31-2003).]

DonM, I may not have answered one of your questions properly.

Yes, you can install the Yamaha softsynth and play midi files provided it is compatible with the Windows operating system you are using. I believe Yamaha have updated some of their synths to operate with Windows XP. This will sound much better than the wavetable that comes with your LT. Yamaha's softsynths have a latency around 400 ms so using it for live performances with a keyboard would not work to well. If you used it just for playing midis then there is no problem.

The Edirol HQ Hyper Canvas is of better quality and more usable --- but it also costs considerably more.

Windows XP restore feature alone is worth the cost of Windows XP. I love it. Been using XP Professional for a month now....Its much more stable and pleasing to the eye than Windows 98.

Thanks Frank, I'll see if Yamaha has XP drivers developed.
Since I already have the program, it's worth a try.
DonM