Try using that arranger and a few styles with "Now Thank We All Our God" and see where that gets you with the elders...

At the risk of violating something my parents taught me years ago which is "don't discuss religion with strangers" I would like to express my opinion. And since this is really more about the music than the actual religion I figure it's OK.

Not to offend anyone here but for me it's classical organ or piano and a hymnal, period. NO drums, guitars, no bells and whistles, etc. These contemporary services that are held today are annoying to me. It is pretty much all about the music. Sure the lyrics have a religious undertone but I think having a full band playing a set distracts from the rest of the service, which by the way is shortened severely so the band has more stage time. I went to a contemporary service a couple of weeks ago and the pastor gave about a 15 minute sermon (out of an hour). The rest of the time was spent suffering through a 5 piece band and four vocalists up front playing song after song. What made it even worse was the so-called music minister (minister, give me a break. Most of these guys play in bars on the weekend) who was the keyboardist, also had a light controller that he was fiddling with. That’s right a light controller…controlling par cans, pin spots, gobos. I didn’t see one but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a mirror ball up there somewhere. It is church for crying out loud, not a rock concert. Sheez!!!

I realize that the whole contemporary service idea came about to entice younger individuals to attend church. But it doesn’t appear to be helping much. Personally I think it is the parents of the young people who need to instill in their children the reasons to attend church. Maybe another reason is that the contemporary service crowd is trying to make believe they are hip by embracing music that has a rhythm because of the popularity of certain music styles that their children are listening to today. If that is the case, then take the kids to a good old Pentecostal service. Not to blow holes in the rest of my ranting, but there is a place in church for a set of drums, and that place is sitting beside a B3. Now that’s a service!

And another thing that I think is very interesting is look at how many national artists got their start hiding under the [i]Christian Artist[i] label only to move into mainstream rock, country or what-have-you after they’ve milked the popular religious aspect and became famous. To me that stinks.

Nope, I’ll take a hymnal and ONE instrument to keep everyone in tune. Excluding the previously mentioned B3 and trap kit .


[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-03-2007).]

Dave... now you've done it. you've gone and offended the music gods, or shall I say those who worship God with music. I've go t my ark parked right outside the house, just up I-75. We'll hold the gangplank til you get here. I've got two Rogers, Allens, Johannuses; a couple Mohlers, Cassevantes, and even Hammonds, Wurlitzers and Conns. If you promise not to tell, I even stowed away a couple Steinways, Yamahas and Bosendorfers.

Heaven forbid we should say anything contrary modern worship - WWJD?

It all has to do with your personal taste and balance. In my church, I use the PA1x, a dgx-500 as a controller then have a guitar player who uses a half-stack Marshall. Yes, we ROCK THE HOUSE because that's what we like and the whole church is behind us and likes it too, mostly older people in fact. We are a new church, around 10 years old and are able to do what we feel God is telling us to do. Our main pastor is the one with the vision and she simply feels a direction to go and we go. There are plenty of other churches out there for anyone who doesn't like our style, direction, ministry, etc. We do have an elder board and she consults us, we decide things and work tem out together, when the few things come up that are controversial.

That aside, I have been using just a piano or arranger keyboard for years now and it works great for our style, which is heavy rock, R & B, gospel style.

Whatever helps you worship God should be what works.

BTW, we only have about 30 minutes of music and about 45 minutes of preaching.

Jeff

Like I said, I wasn't trying to offend anyone nor was I just trying to stir up an argument. There are others much better at that than me. lol.

And normally I tend to stay away from expressing opinions on the forums, but this one struck home a bit. I am all for anything that will keep people going to church. Although simply going to church for an hour or so on Sunday really isn't what it's all about. It's how the teachings influence you through the rest of the week and throughout your life. The point I was making is for me I would prefer to hear a well thought out sermon pertaining to todays problems rather than listen to a band. If you are into the Sunday morning rock concert, go for it. I suppose I'm just an old fashioned at heart.

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-03-2007).]

Im not a strict religious man but....
In your opinion would you have the same participation WITHOUT music in your church program....or is music used as a drawing factor in keeping people interested.

Well that's sort of what I'm talking about. And don't get me wrong, I'm all for music (right place, right time, right style and so forth). After all I've been playing and singing professionally for the past 30 some years. I just wish it were enough for people to attend church because they want to learn how to be better human beings by listening to someone, presumably more enlightened, share words of wisdom to live by. It is a pity that church membership seems to have dwindled as of late. And it is always sad to see a fading artist or in this case a fading organization in an attempt as a last ditch effort to re-gain the popularity they/it once had by trying to get with the times.

Again, I am not downing anyone else’s choices in how they choose to worship. Just expressing some thoughts.


[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 08-03-2007).]

Hold on a minute Dave. Church music has always been changing since the very first music was sung in a tent or at an stone altar. Original worship music according to Judaic and early christian tradition used inhstruments including a set of cymbals, the ,the 'tof' which is a hand held drum and with pipes and stringed instruments and even included dance! The equivalent of a modern day praise and worship band today !! I dont know if other churches use music as a 'attraction' to draw people in but the purpose of music in worship is to worship and praise God. Thats what attending church is actually for. Learning and studying is actually supposed to be done before you get to church !! The tradition of the church that i am assuming you are coming from is just that , a tradition. It has nothing to do with any pattern or formula passed down by God. I completely agree with you that in many cases people are just tripping on music. Just as some people believe church attendance on a sunday is all that they have to do to satisfy their requirement to serve God.They leave their faith there on the pughs until next sunday ! Thats not good for any church or any faith. And i dont believe in being contemporary just for the sake of it. But i have been to 'traditional' churches and have grown up in one and watched it die as many of them have and are dieing today because they have made the 'method' of understanding God through sermons on a sunday or Sabbath for 1 hour and a couple of hymns sung with an out of tune piano or organ as sacred. The method was never and should never be sacred ! The message is ! And i certainly am seeing a revival of sincere christians striving to serve God and live by the truths that they are studying in the week and sharing in worship in churches far and wide. The music is simply the expression of the joy they have found pouring out from them in the medium of contemporay relevant music ,sincerly given to worship God. Thank God, he is open and loving enough to allow us to use whatever we have to share our love for him in vibrant meaningful worship , whatever method is used.

An organ and piano does not make the worship anymore sincere.

PS you cant hear the tone of my voice so let me make it clear that i am in no way critisising you . I am just adding another one of many views on the subject of appropriate worship using instruments. No doubt you might get other views too.

But back to the point, an arranger is still the ideal instrument for worship as you can switch off the accompaniment if you want a more basic traditional sound...... But when the church realise that God existed before the 18th Century tradition in the hearts and minds of people and still does today in the 21st Century , it might want to switch on some of the acompaniment !!!! Try doing that with a pipe organ ......

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 08-04-2007).]

[This message has been edited by spalding (edited 08-04-2007).]

Hi spalding,

Like I said above "Again, I am not downing anyone else’s choices in how they choose to worship. Just expressing some thoughts."

I agree with the points you made. I was just saying for me, (as you suggested) I prefer a more traditional service.

Dave

So, would that involve the Shofar...? http://www.piney.com/Shofar.html

Everybody's traditional music was once radical and new. Eventually, arrangers will be considered traditional!